A million questions...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southport
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A million questions...
I know all these questions have been answered before but most of the answers seem fairly dated, so was hoping for up to date replies.
Introduction: I'm a 28 year old Police Officer based in Liverpool and have always dreamt of being a pilot but always thought I was too thick!
Now for the questions...
1. Is it necessary to have qualifications (ie GCSE/A Levels/Degree) under your belt to pass PPL and then CPL/IR or ATPL? I wouldn't describe myself as thick but don't have qualifications either (Other than NVQ Level 3 and a couple of GCSE's!)
2. Am i too old?
3. I've read previous threads about no instructors, simulator etc at Ravenair. Has anyone recently attended at Ravenair and what was the training and your treatment REALLY like? Are the planes dilapidated?
4. Should I/When I successfully pass my PPL, build my hours and pass my my CPL/IR, what is the likelyhood of getting a job? Taking into consideration my age by the time i've finally passed it all!
5. How long will all this take? I know finances play a part but Ravenair expect payment up front so that could all be paid up front (thanks to credit cards/loans etc) and then its just finding the time. I've read elsewhere that paying up front is a big mistake but it seems that most modular courses work this way (unless I pay as I go, which overall is more expensive!).
Any other information that could be of help to someone planning a massive career change and financial burden. I know i'm not on my own with this so i'm sure others will have helpful advice!
I look forward to receiving your replies.
Introduction: I'm a 28 year old Police Officer based in Liverpool and have always dreamt of being a pilot but always thought I was too thick!
Now for the questions...
1. Is it necessary to have qualifications (ie GCSE/A Levels/Degree) under your belt to pass PPL and then CPL/IR or ATPL? I wouldn't describe myself as thick but don't have qualifications either (Other than NVQ Level 3 and a couple of GCSE's!)
2. Am i too old?
3. I've read previous threads about no instructors, simulator etc at Ravenair. Has anyone recently attended at Ravenair and what was the training and your treatment REALLY like? Are the planes dilapidated?
4. Should I/When I successfully pass my PPL, build my hours and pass my my CPL/IR, what is the likelyhood of getting a job? Taking into consideration my age by the time i've finally passed it all!
5. How long will all this take? I know finances play a part but Ravenair expect payment up front so that could all be paid up front (thanks to credit cards/loans etc) and then its just finding the time. I've read elsewhere that paying up front is a big mistake but it seems that most modular courses work this way (unless I pay as I go, which overall is more expensive!).
Any other information that could be of help to someone planning a massive career change and financial burden. I know i'm not on my own with this so i'm sure others will have helpful advice!
I look forward to receiving your replies.
Best advice I can give is to visit a Flying school..... ( Barton is closest to you ? ) and take a trial lesson..........whilst there, bombard them with all the questions that you have.......they will have answered all these and more , many times and can give up to date costings and requirements.
Do it....you won't regret it !
Do it....you won't regret it !
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Uk
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In answer to your questions
1) No it isn't required, but things like Physics and Maths can help. Study hard and you'll be ok.
2) No, you're too old.. I started at 30
3) sorry can't help as never been to Raven air
4) First thing you should do is get your Class 1 medical, pass that then get you're PPL and then decide from there. You may fail the Class 1.. You may Struggle with the PPL, not saying you will but don't pin you're hopes on a career at the start.. Chances are though, you'll get the bug and love it..
5) Took me 15 months.. start to finish but I know others that worked part time and it took them 24 months.. It's not a race, and more important to pass everything 1st time than do it in record time. Don't pay up front, no need and any school worth it's money shouldn't ask you for it! There are plenty out that don't and don't be pressurised into it!
As said, get a trail flight, get you're medical and explore you're options as best you can... Work out a game plan and give it your best shot.. It was the best decision I ever made. Hard work, yes plenty of money and a lot of good luck..
1) No it isn't required, but things like Physics and Maths can help. Study hard and you'll be ok.
2) No, you're too old.. I started at 30
3) sorry can't help as never been to Raven air
4) First thing you should do is get your Class 1 medical, pass that then get you're PPL and then decide from there. You may fail the Class 1.. You may Struggle with the PPL, not saying you will but don't pin you're hopes on a career at the start.. Chances are though, you'll get the bug and love it..
5) Took me 15 months.. start to finish but I know others that worked part time and it took them 24 months.. It's not a race, and more important to pass everything 1st time than do it in record time. Don't pay up front, no need and any school worth it's money shouldn't ask you for it! There are plenty out that don't and don't be pressurised into it!
As said, get a trail flight, get you're medical and explore you're options as best you can... Work out a game plan and give it your best shot.. It was the best decision I ever made. Hard work, yes plenty of money and a lot of good luck..
Hi there
Do not pay up front, ever.Pay after each lesson.If they refuse to accept this, vote with your feet.Remember, you are a customer and have rights and wouldn't accept the same treatment in a shoe-shop.
regards
TDD
Do not pay up front, ever.Pay after each lesson.If they refuse to accept this, vote with your feet.Remember, you are a customer and have rights and wouldn't accept the same treatment in a shoe-shop.
regards
TDD
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I second the not paying up front. Never mind if it does cost more; pay as you go, or pay per five or ten hours if you really want to (much less risk, though still some). Flying schools go out of business with monotonous regularity, taking students' money with them. 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 32°55'22"S 151°46'56"E
Age: 39
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Agree with above; go for a trial lesson, ask lots of questions, and get a feel for things. Takes away a lot of the apprehension and puts things into perspective.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Oxford
Age: 45
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
on not paying up front
I note that full-time commercial training courses don't accept "payment by the lesson", but for things like integrated ATPL training they usually seem to have staged payments, which is a reasonable middle-ground. But if you're doing your PPL at a normal flying school, then yeah, don't pay for more than a few hours at a time (assuming you're doing lessons pretty intensively).
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
For the PPL, no qualifications are necessary and there's no such thing as "too old".
Oh, and just in case nobody else thinks to mention this:
DO NOT PAY UP FRONT
If a flying school is trying to borrow money from you that is because they have already tried to borrow it from a bank and failed. You reckon your judgement of who it's safe to lend money to is better than all the banks put together??
Oh, and just in case nobody else thinks to mention this:
DO NOT PAY UP FRONT
If a flying school is trying to borrow money from you that is because they have already tried to borrow it from a bank and failed. You reckon your judgement of who it's safe to lend money to is better than all the banks put together??
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Lymington
Age: 56
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My advice would be to approach this with chunks of intensive flying with committed milestone targets. If this is a career move, I wouldn't recommend entering this process in dribs & drabs; it'll take forever and cost more.
In the first instance, I would take time off and do your PPL in America. The basic PPL is very weather dependant and could drag on forever if you hang around in the UK. The dollar conversion rate is in your favour and you could achieve that 1st milestone in a few weeks. It would probably work out much cheaper than in the UK.
From this point you could decide whether to come back to the UK and train part-time for the other parts, or remain in the US. Time is an enemy in training terms, the longer you let it run, the more you will need to fly, the more it will cost.
In the first instance, I would take time off and do your PPL in America. The basic PPL is very weather dependant and could drag on forever if you hang around in the UK. The dollar conversion rate is in your favour and you could achieve that 1st milestone in a few weeks. It would probably work out much cheaper than in the UK.
From this point you could decide whether to come back to the UK and train part-time for the other parts, or remain in the US. Time is an enemy in training terms, the longer you let it run, the more you will need to fly, the more it will cost.
have you thought about a microlight nppl, good school at our field save £££, lots of our guys are from the southport area.
). A microlight NPPL would not be of any benefit whatsoever in that situation.
Time is an enemy in training terms, the longer you let it run, the more you will need to fly, the more it will cost.
Phil - my 2p worth:
i) Go for it - you only live once
ii) Don't pay up front.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: North West, UK
Age: 36
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regarding Ravenair and paying upfront, it is an option but they don't expect you to do so, least not when i used them last year. You could also pay as you go, or open and account with them, I held funds in one which they would access for payment, it also got me a small discount (I believe you had to open the account with £1000 and then keep it topped up above £100). I would strongly advise you consider the other two payment options rather than the pay all in one option which like others i would advise against.
I'm currently doing my theory with them. Also check out...http://www.merseyflight.com/
Mersey flight is a new school but seem a good set up and you wont have the trouble of short term hour building instructors like I had with my previous school.
I'm currently doing my theory with them. Also check out...http://www.merseyflight.com/
Mersey flight is a new school but seem a good set up and you wont have the trouble of short term hour building instructors like I had with my previous school.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Age: 76
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The general answer is 'go for it' (except for the paying up front bit - has anyone mentioned that?).
Also, I doubt that you would be covered if you paid by card, because it is one thing for the banks to cover fraudulent credit card transactions, but quite another to cover you in the event that a company went into administration.
Have fun.
Also, I doubt that you would be covered if you paid by card, because it is one thing for the banks to cover fraudulent credit card transactions, but quite another to cover you in the event that a company went into administration.
Have fun.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Consumer Credit Act 1974, section 75. "Connected lender liability". The card issuer is equally liable with the merchant for all claims against the merchant if the payment is within the Act's upper and lower limits - currently £100/30,000.
The claim needs to be legally valid, but is not limited to fraud. It could include simple failure to deliver.
This protection applies only to credit cards - there is no equivalent for payment by debit card.
The claim needs to be legally valid, but is not limited to fraud. It could include simple failure to deliver.
This protection applies only to credit cards - there is no equivalent for payment by debit card.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Job Centre
Age: 74
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There have been so many sorry tales here of up-front payments disappearing when clubs go insolvent or Principals disappear ... hence the above concerns.
But of course there are many totally reputable training organisations for the ATPL (eg Oxford Air Training - though I've no ATPL ambitions)
My logbook says it took me one year and four months to get my PPL, finishing at the age of 43 (15years ago!)
You don't need any prior exams or quaifications. But I found a basic understanding of maths, physics, electrics and the internal combustion engine very helpful. But many others manage very well with a bit more homework.
Go for it! I only wish I'd the drive for the ATPL at 28.
Do it now !
SD
But of course there are many totally reputable training organisations for the ATPL (eg Oxford Air Training - though I've no ATPL ambitions)
My logbook says it took me one year and four months to get my PPL, finishing at the age of 43 (15years ago!)
You don't need any prior exams or quaifications. But I found a basic understanding of maths, physics, electrics and the internal combustion engine very helpful. But many others manage very well with a bit more homework.
Go for it! I only wish I'd the drive for the ATPL at 28.
Do it now !
SD
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Age: 76
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I defer to the Prof concerning use of a credit card, although I am surprised. However, I would like to add one thing regarding paying for PPL training; I would imagine that training organisations like to get the money up front in order to lock you in, as much as anything else. I suggest that the best way is to make sure that you have the money available so that you can fly whenever you want. Save it up, get a loan, whatever. If you try to fly when you can afford it, you might find that you are not flying enough and it will take a long time.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cranfield UK
Age: 70
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lots of good advice here of course. There are however some reputable companies offering discounts for staged payments. Where this works well the banks are not needed and are denied their pound of flesh, the customer gains a small discount usually 10% or so and the Club the working capital that can be scarce. This method keeps it all in the club. But do not pay up front any amount that you could not afford to write off and if you buy blocks fly them off quickly. A package deal works in other industries and it is a real shame that some aviation businesses have been worse than the old second hand car dealers of years ago. Perhaps I have been lucky or just chosen well at the 3 clubs where I have or have had accounts? If you cannot afford a 10% price rise then you will not fly so often. Fuel and landing fees are always on the up as is maintenance. What a happy bunch we are.....