Where to get a decent flying suit?
Fly Conventional Gear
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Where to get a decent flying suit?
I've searched previous threads...and I haven't really found a good answer.
I don't usually wear a flying suit, but I was given one a while ago (and for ages didn't wear it) and recently since at c. 5000ft in a Super Cub during the winter without a worthwhile heater it gets rather cold I started wearing it.
It's OK and it does anyway with the pesky knee board but it's little more than a cotton/nylon set of overalls and not particularly warm (I could wear a coat but I don't really like baggy clothing in planes with exposed control cables in the cockpit). The flying suits I remember wearing as a cadet seemed better quality...but I was wondering:
Where does one find a really good one?...Nice and warm, good fire protection and lots of pockets to put things in.
Are the RAF (ie ones you would buy at a surplus store) ones the best? Or perhaps one like the USAF use?
Any thoughts/recommendations would be appreciated.
I don't usually wear a flying suit, but I was given one a while ago (and for ages didn't wear it) and recently since at c. 5000ft in a Super Cub during the winter without a worthwhile heater it gets rather cold I started wearing it.
It's OK and it does anyway with the pesky knee board but it's little more than a cotton/nylon set of overalls and not particularly warm (I could wear a coat but I don't really like baggy clothing in planes with exposed control cables in the cockpit). The flying suits I remember wearing as a cadet seemed better quality...but I was wondering:
Where does one find a really good one?...Nice and warm, good fire protection and lots of pockets to put things in.
Are the RAF (ie ones you would buy at a surplus store) ones the best? Or perhaps one like the USAF use?
Any thoughts/recommendations would be appreciated.
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Your best bet, to my knowledge, might be Flightsuits in California. They make USAF pattern ones and have some other styles available, too. Not cheap, but good quality and basically half price with the exchange rate.
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Suggest you try Ollie Elmer..
http://www.elmers.co.uk/aviation/
Very happy with the suit he made for me - quite heavy, can be a bit hot in summer but excellent quality. He was happy to provide whatever custom pockets etc you wanted. The only thing I would have done differently is specify the clear map pocket backed with a layer of plastic - mine just backs onto the fabric, and after a particularly energetic flight on a hot day any paper in there can turn to mush....
http://www.elmers.co.uk/aviation/
Very happy with the suit he made for me - quite heavy, can be a bit hot in summer but excellent quality. He was happy to provide whatever custom pockets etc you wanted. The only thing I would have done differently is specify the clear map pocket backed with a layer of plastic - mine just backs onto the fabric, and after a particularly energetic flight on a hot day any paper in there can turn to mush....
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Jays racewear
These chaps make the flight suits for the RAF. They'll do pretty much anything you like for about £300. Nomex, pockets everywhere you like, made to measure any colour.
http://www.jaysracewear.co.uk/
Also SES near Kemble do old RAF ones for £100.
http://www.survival-eq-services.com/about.html
Choose and fill your boots.
You can choose between PROBAN (which washes out ) or NOMEX which does in some peoples minds.
http://www.jaysracewear.co.uk/
Also SES near Kemble do old RAF ones for £100.
http://www.survival-eq-services.com/about.html
Choose and fill your boots.
You can choose between PROBAN (which washes out ) or NOMEX which does in some peoples minds.
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Whereas wearing a flight suit uniform as a military officer is one thing, oen tends to look more like an idiot when one shows up wearing on in a Cessna 152, Super Cub, or Cherokee.
Blue jeans and a tee shirt with a jacket work well, though.
Blue jeans and a tee shirt with a jacket work well, though.
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Originally Posted by radicalrabit
would a proper flying suit offer better protection in a crash ?
Seems doubtful to me
Seems doubtful to me
Risk and practicality determine most things. In the Pitts, where the fuel tank is suspended over my lower legs, a degree of fire protection is agreeable should it all go tits up. Ditto the Yak, but oil is more of a factor than fuel. In a spamcan, I just wear my Speedos and a grin.
Wo'nt keep you warm but, from my reading of the main killers in survivable acciedents, I would probably spend the money on a good helmet.
If you go with the full suit - get the best fire resistant gloves - your fingers tend to be the first to go in a fire. Try opening doors, or taking of burning clothing with no fingers.
(please note, this info is from my personal reseach - I am no expert)
If you go with the full suit - get the best fire resistant gloves - your fingers tend to be the first to go in a fire. Try opening doors, or taking of burning clothing with no fingers.
(please note, this info is from my personal reseach - I am no expert)
Last edited by Flying Binghi; 9th Feb 2008 at 21:27. Reason: Remove incorrect info
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You might want to rethink that leather jacket; it's going to serve you better than a nomex one, in most cases. Of course, if you pick a jacet with nylon lining and nylon cuffs and waistband...then it won't help you so much.
Nylon burns quickly, and melts faster. Nomex melts, too. It doesn't sustain a flame. But it does burn. Leather generally doesn't burn, but depending on what's in the leather and what's attachd to the leather you won't have protection for long. Some good leathe jackets have nomex interiors and do away with the flexible cuffs...these are much better.
Cottons do burn, but not as fast.
Now, leather by itself transfers heat quickly and retains it...but it's still a good choice if the other option is a synthetic fammable ike nlon or rayon.
I base this on years of firefighting experience on the ground and in the air.
If you're going to to wear flight suit, a military specification suit is your best bet. If you're looking for a good price, check out flightsuits.com, and visit their clearance rack. You can get some very good quality suits that are returns or parts of orders that were never taken, at a big discount. I've worn some of them professionally doing fire and medical work.
http://www.flightsuits.com/clear_unif_nmx_men.html
What a flight suit will do for you is give you very limited protection from flash burns while you're getting clear of the danger area. Bear in mind that a flashover becomes unsurvivable very quickly...quickly being a relative term often measured in miliseconds. it typically starts at a generic 1,100 degrees F and can quickly reach 1,800 degress F or more. Those aren't survivable temperatures. I've been in structures and trainers when the temps got hot enough to melt the nomex around breathing apparatus, helmets, and masks, and equipment was too hot to touch nearly a half hour after exiting the heat. That's with a lot of equipment worn by trained personnel...in environments where standing or sitting up would be enough to cook you. The difference between alive and dead can be measured in inches.
A flight suit can protect you very briefly from thermal burns, but you need gloves that overlap at the wrists and leather boots that overlap at the ankles, and head and face protection, too...and the most vulnerable part of your body, the part that will kill you, is your airway. You can put all the protecction you like on your body, but if the airwa isn't protected, then you're not going to make it.
A flight suit has some application if you're doing low altitude flying, sitting on an ejection seat, or putting yourself in a position where it might be required. For normal trips around the pattern, a weekend rental, or a flight to grandma's house, it tends to look a little silly in a cherokee or cub.
Nylon burns quickly, and melts faster. Nomex melts, too. It doesn't sustain a flame. But it does burn. Leather generally doesn't burn, but depending on what's in the leather and what's attachd to the leather you won't have protection for long. Some good leathe jackets have nomex interiors and do away with the flexible cuffs...these are much better.
Cottons do burn, but not as fast.
Now, leather by itself transfers heat quickly and retains it...but it's still a good choice if the other option is a synthetic fammable ike nlon or rayon.
I base this on years of firefighting experience on the ground and in the air.
If you're going to to wear flight suit, a military specification suit is your best bet. If you're looking for a good price, check out flightsuits.com, and visit their clearance rack. You can get some very good quality suits that are returns or parts of orders that were never taken, at a big discount. I've worn some of them professionally doing fire and medical work.
http://www.flightsuits.com/clear_unif_nmx_men.html
What a flight suit will do for you is give you very limited protection from flash burns while you're getting clear of the danger area. Bear in mind that a flashover becomes unsurvivable very quickly...quickly being a relative term often measured in miliseconds. it typically starts at a generic 1,100 degrees F and can quickly reach 1,800 degress F or more. Those aren't survivable temperatures. I've been in structures and trainers when the temps got hot enough to melt the nomex around breathing apparatus, helmets, and masks, and equipment was too hot to touch nearly a half hour after exiting the heat. That's with a lot of equipment worn by trained personnel...in environments where standing or sitting up would be enough to cook you. The difference between alive and dead can be measured in inches.
A flight suit can protect you very briefly from thermal burns, but you need gloves that overlap at the wrists and leather boots that overlap at the ankles, and head and face protection, too...and the most vulnerable part of your body, the part that will kill you, is your airway. You can put all the protecction you like on your body, but if the airwa isn't protected, then you're not going to make it.
A flight suit has some application if you're doing low altitude flying, sitting on an ejection seat, or putting yourself in a position where it might be required. For normal trips around the pattern, a weekend rental, or a flight to grandma's house, it tends to look a little silly in a cherokee or cub.
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Nomex
Hi Contacttower,
Some time ago I visited Jays and had the opportunity of holding one of the suits of the sort they supply to 'the Stig', the professional racing driver who appears regularly in the 'Top Gear' motoring TV show. It weighed a ton!
The reason was because it was constructed from no less than three layers of Nomex of various different thicknesses. At three layers, it provided guaranteed protection against burning for just 11 seconds! Just long enough for the race course fire truck to get to the scene and start applying their fire extinguishers to the driver and his car.
So a flying suit made from a single layer of Nomex will protect you from burning for probably about 2 seconds. The advantage it does give is that it does not actually burst into flames as cotton will. In short, it won't stop you from burning, but at least your injuries might be less than if a cotton suit had turned you into a fire ball.
I have got Jays to supply me with some Nomex pants, with pockets where I want them, a Nomex fleece jacket likewise and some Nomex zipped polo neck shirts. Used together, these things don't look like the military grow bag, but give me just that little bit of extra utility and protection, at least as good as the military grow bag would provide.
Incidentally, Jays also supply the Red Arrows, so they must know something about what flying requires.
Broomstick.
Some time ago I visited Jays and had the opportunity of holding one of the suits of the sort they supply to 'the Stig', the professional racing driver who appears regularly in the 'Top Gear' motoring TV show. It weighed a ton!
The reason was because it was constructed from no less than three layers of Nomex of various different thicknesses. At three layers, it provided guaranteed protection against burning for just 11 seconds! Just long enough for the race course fire truck to get to the scene and start applying their fire extinguishers to the driver and his car.
So a flying suit made from a single layer of Nomex will protect you from burning for probably about 2 seconds. The advantage it does give is that it does not actually burst into flames as cotton will. In short, it won't stop you from burning, but at least your injuries might be less than if a cotton suit had turned you into a fire ball.
I have got Jays to supply me with some Nomex pants, with pockets where I want them, a Nomex fleece jacket likewise and some Nomex zipped polo neck shirts. Used together, these things don't look like the military grow bag, but give me just that little bit of extra utility and protection, at least as good as the military grow bag would provide.
Incidentally, Jays also supply the Red Arrows, so they must know something about what flying requires.
Broomstick.
I was wondering when we would get a proper post out of you Guppy 
Guppy, glad you went into depth about the leather jacket. There seems to be some different opinions about them.
I'd read a post (another forum) made by a chap who has done post crash investigations for the US airforce. He made mention of the dangers of leather jackets and that they were to be avioded. He also made the point about pilots who had their fingers burnt off, not being able to unzip the jacket, and cooking to death.
I guess as you point out, the other option is to have the nomex jacket melt into your skin.
You mention nomex lined leather jackets. Your comment doesnt make it clear, but do they offer insulation from the cooking effects of the leather jacket ?
Guppy, glad you went into depth about the leather jacket. There seems to be some different opinions about them.
I'd read a post (another forum) made by a chap who has done post crash investigations for the US airforce. He made mention of the dangers of leather jackets and that they were to be avioded. He also made the point about pilots who had their fingers burnt off, not being able to unzip the jacket, and cooking to death.
I guess as you point out, the other option is to have the nomex jacket melt into your skin.
You mention nomex lined leather jackets. Your comment doesnt make it clear, but do they offer insulation from the cooking effects of the leather jacket ?
Contact Tower,
Broomstick probably foregot to mention to beware of static electricity in Nomex flying suites / garments. Aparently a lot of the older suites, and some of the cheeper new suites, build up a charge of static electricity.
Nomex comes in many grades. In the oil refinerys there have been several incidents of the static charged suites of certain Nomex types causing fires.
Probably pay to read the fine print on the label.
Edit - Pilot refueling an aircraft - not a good time to have static electricity.
Broomstick probably foregot to mention to beware of static electricity in Nomex flying suites / garments. Aparently a lot of the older suites, and some of the cheeper new suites, build up a charge of static electricity.
Nomex comes in many grades. In the oil refinerys there have been several incidents of the static charged suites of certain Nomex types causing fires.
Probably pay to read the fine print on the label.
Edit - Pilot refueling an aircraft - not a good time to have static electricity.
Last edited by Flying Binghi; 8th Feb 2008 at 17:48.
Join an Air Cadet Gliding School; you'll get issued with flying suits and other cold weather clothing.
Incidentally for flying gloves; Wilkinson Hardware shops do lined leather gardening gloves for £3.99; they last just as long as 'official RAF Issue' leather gloves costing about £25 or more.
Incidentally for flying gloves; Wilkinson Hardware shops do lined leather gardening gloves for £3.99; they last just as long as 'official RAF Issue' leather gloves costing about £25 or more.
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The fabric/treatment may have changed, but back in the days when I went to work in a smart green flying suit I seem to recall that the fireproofing function deteriorated with age/washes. Buying one from a surplus store might not be the best option, therefore.
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www.silvermans.co.uk - Just do a search for "flying suit"