average hours to go solo
Avoid imitations
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I went solo at 17 years of age (only just) after 7 hours, to a syllabus. As far as being able to cope with emergencies, it was a long time ago but I do remember being given many engine failures to deal with before being let loose.
My instructor, the late Cliff Barnett, just unexpectedly said: "Right, I'm getting out here - off you go and just see how much better it climbs with only you in the cockpit".
So I did.
An aquaintance, now in his late 70s (possibly older) rebuilt a Jodel at the age of 15 and taught himself to fly. Literally, his first solo was his first flight, although he had done a few runway hops before that.
My instructor, the late Cliff Barnett, just unexpectedly said: "Right, I'm getting out here - off you go and just see how much better it climbs with only you in the cockpit".
So I did.
An aquaintance, now in his late 70s (possibly older) rebuilt a Jodel at the age of 15 and taught himself to fly. Literally, his first solo was his first flight, although he had done a few runway hops before that.
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I soloed in 35 seconds, would have been sooner but there was a gust of wind 
Seriously though, for the purposes of working out the average, I soloed at 25 hours on the button. My instructor starting making noises about sending me around 18 or so but I decided that I very much wanted a say in the decision. This seems to be a bit unusual, infact some posters might remember the thread where I asked for advice on whether I should bite the bullet (I did
). Some were a little incredulous that I even had a say in it, but to each their own.
On the subject of using it as some competition, I certainly understand how everyone wants to be thought of as a 'natural'. There is a feeling that if you don't achieve a stupidly low solo time then you are some how inferior, but the more I think about it, the less this makes any kind of sense.
Let me put it to you this way... I am still a student although I am hopefully heading into the home stretch. I *firmly* believe, that even as a student, if I were to take one of my non-flying friends up and purely drill circuits with them, even *I* could have them reach a point where they would have memorized the functions enough that they could do one on their own in say..... 5 hours (maybe even less). It wouldn't be a sensible or safe thing to do (which is exactly why it is not allowed!), but I don't think it would be that difficult.
With that in mind, it hopefully should put some perspective on the issue and demonstrate that teaching style affect pre-solo hours far more than the relative natural ability of the student. My first solo was one of the biggest moments of my life, and I very very proud of myself for getting to that point. It is a bit of a shame that we have this inbuilt competitive nature that forces us to judge ourselves by comparing with others. I am just very happy to be a member of the P1 club, and pretty soon your time will come, and you will be a member too, and whether its 5 hours, 20 hours or 50 hours, we can all raise a glass to ourselves and say, "We have done something very few people will ever do, lets be proud".
When Roger Bannister ran the 4 minute mile, who the hell cared how many hours training it took
Seriously though, for the purposes of working out the average, I soloed at 25 hours on the button. My instructor starting making noises about sending me around 18 or so but I decided that I very much wanted a say in the decision. This seems to be a bit unusual, infact some posters might remember the thread where I asked for advice on whether I should bite the bullet (I did
). Some were a little incredulous that I even had a say in it, but to each their own.On the subject of using it as some competition, I certainly understand how everyone wants to be thought of as a 'natural'. There is a feeling that if you don't achieve a stupidly low solo time then you are some how inferior, but the more I think about it, the less this makes any kind of sense.
Let me put it to you this way... I am still a student although I am hopefully heading into the home stretch. I *firmly* believe, that even as a student, if I were to take one of my non-flying friends up and purely drill circuits with them, even *I* could have them reach a point where they would have memorized the functions enough that they could do one on their own in say..... 5 hours (maybe even less). It wouldn't be a sensible or safe thing to do (which is exactly why it is not allowed!), but I don't think it would be that difficult.
With that in mind, it hopefully should put some perspective on the issue and demonstrate that teaching style affect pre-solo hours far more than the relative natural ability of the student. My first solo was one of the biggest moments of my life, and I very very proud of myself for getting to that point. It is a bit of a shame that we have this inbuilt competitive nature that forces us to judge ourselves by comparing with others. I am just very happy to be a member of the P1 club, and pretty soon your time will come, and you will be a member too, and whether its 5 hours, 20 hours or 50 hours, we can all raise a glass to ourselves and say, "We have done something very few people will ever do, lets be proud".
When Roger Bannister ran the 4 minute mile, who the hell cared how many hours training it took
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I remember my solo like it happened yesterday. My instuctor asked me to stop the a/c on the strip, then just opened the door and buggered off saying "off you go".
So away I went and what a feeling (which we all know) when those wheels first part company from mother earth. Then reallity sets in when you have to contact the tower and contend with traffic. Then on finals I was asked to go around as there was a RFDS flight wanting the same piece of mother earth that I wanted. That wasn't in the text book.
I have flown since I don't know when as I used to accompany my father on a lot of flights, and when he let me actually have the controls I had to use intruments as I could not see over the panel.
One thing I have learnt over the years, is that you are always still learning. Never think that you know it all as that is when it will bite you.
So away I went and what a feeling (which we all know) when those wheels first part company from mother earth. Then reallity sets in when you have to contact the tower and contend with traffic. Then on finals I was asked to go around as there was a RFDS flight wanting the same piece of mother earth that I wanted. That wasn't in the text book.
I have flown since I don't know when as I used to accompany my father on a lot of flights, and when he let me actually have the controls I had to use intruments as I could not see over the panel.
One thing I have learnt over the years, is that you are always still learning. Never think that you know it all as that is when it will bite you.
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Deary me.. What a question! One that has been covered by others here pretty well. I went solo (power) after I had done around 30 hours.. Up to that point I had done many landings at other airfields (including grass) I was able to demonstrate that I could select a field for an outlanding (my glider time came in handy for that). Added to that I went through a heck of a lot of different techniques like side slipping on approach, dealing with low level thermals on finals (i could have killed the local corn field for that).. The list goes on.
I'm sure that my instructor could have sent me off at least ten hours before he did. But when he did let me go. I certainly felt happy and able to deal with virtually everything that could be thrown at me..
On my solo they changed runways on me. Obviously I could have said (and my instructor made sure that it was my call as to anything they asked me to do) that I would prefer to use the runway that I took off from. I was happy to do as they say and it wasn't a problem. What I wasn't ready for, was the fact that the aircraft floated on and on (AA5) and I lost my nerve and opened her up to go around to try again.. Little hairy as I didn't anticipate the nose going up when I opened the throttle
...
It was another four hours before I went solo again.. I made sure that I got some practice in at going around at low level.. Different ball game to touch and go ...
Sorry to have gone on a bit.. But it may help others to decide when they may be ready.. Don't be in a rush. Try and get your instructor to cover some of the more unusual things, so that they don't bite you when you least expect it... Ohh!! And if you have any doubts or holes that you want filled before you go it alone.. For Gods sake speak to your instructor!! There is no shame in taking a bit longer before going solo. It's far better to be safe than end up a statistic somewhere.
Astral
I'm sure that my instructor could have sent me off at least ten hours before he did. But when he did let me go. I certainly felt happy and able to deal with virtually everything that could be thrown at me..
On my solo they changed runways on me. Obviously I could have said (and my instructor made sure that it was my call as to anything they asked me to do) that I would prefer to use the runway that I took off from. I was happy to do as they say and it wasn't a problem. What I wasn't ready for, was the fact that the aircraft floated on and on (AA5) and I lost my nerve and opened her up to go around to try again.. Little hairy as I didn't anticipate the nose going up when I opened the throttle
... It was another four hours before I went solo again.. I made sure that I got some practice in at going around at low level.. Different ball game to touch and go ...
Sorry to have gone on a bit.. But it may help others to decide when they may be ready.. Don't be in a rush. Try and get your instructor to cover some of the more unusual things, so that they don't bite you when you least expect it... Ohh!! And if you have any doubts or holes that you want filled before you go it alone.. For Gods sake speak to your instructor!! There is no shame in taking a bit longer before going solo. It's far better to be safe than end up a statistic somewhere.
Astral
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I have watched this thread with great interest.
Done my fair share share of ab initio instructing, 1000 hours, getting on to 35 years ago.
One of the greatest joys I got from the job was sending a person on their first solo.
I got some "away" in 5 hours but it is risky, thinking back. It only takes something out of the ordinary to occur and there could be trouble. Others took quiet a bit longer, various reasons already discussed on this thread.
The hardest to try and teach were the young bucks who had lessons from a number of training establishments, or a friend or relative had taught them a bit, or had grown up around aircraft.. I.E., preconceived ideas which in most cases were hard to get around.
The easiest to teach were the young ladies of 16 or so, who had no preconceived ideas and would do what was asked.. In fact some couldn't even open the a/c door until well into the 2nd or 3rd leeson.
When I go back through a pilots logbook now and see that as a student they did some advanced exercises like steep turns etc., before going solo then I know they have had probably a good instructor.
The best environment to get someone away quick, is a non controlled airfield, no other traffic, grass and into wind. Do 1 lesson the first day and 2 lessens each day after but of course that is rare these days.
Done my fair share share of ab initio instructing, 1000 hours, getting on to 35 years ago.
One of the greatest joys I got from the job was sending a person on their first solo.
I got some "away" in 5 hours but it is risky, thinking back. It only takes something out of the ordinary to occur and there could be trouble. Others took quiet a bit longer, various reasons already discussed on this thread.
The hardest to try and teach were the young bucks who had lessons from a number of training establishments, or a friend or relative had taught them a bit, or had grown up around aircraft.. I.E., preconceived ideas which in most cases were hard to get around.
The easiest to teach were the young ladies of 16 or so, who had no preconceived ideas and would do what was asked.. In fact some couldn't even open the a/c door until well into the 2nd or 3rd leeson.
When I go back through a pilots logbook now and see that as a student they did some advanced exercises like steep turns etc., before going solo then I know they have had probably a good instructor.
The best environment to get someone away quick, is a non controlled airfield, no other traffic, grass and into wind. Do 1 lesson the first day and 2 lessens each day after but of course that is rare these days.
The Original Whirly
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As I've said on here before, it took me 48 hours to get to my first (fixed-wing) solo. Reasons were probably a combination of a difficult airfield (Welshpool), mediocre instruction, and my own problems - lack of natural ability and loss of confidence at an early stage due to a personality clash with an instructor. At the time I beat myself up over it, as we all do. But within a few months it made no difference at all. And now, as an instructor, it positively helps - I KNOW what it's like to struggle, watch others passing you, and wonder if you can make it. I also know what to do about it.
These days, people come flying with me on trial lessons, and more than one has marvelled at what they perceive as my "completely natural" flying ability. Me, a natural? That's a joke...though I did take to helicopters a little more quickly than f/w. But I only look like I was born in an R22 because I have hundreds of hours flying them. And that's how you learn to fly, and go solo - by practising. And if you need a little more practice than some, who cares?
Recently, after a student brought back an aircraft with no fuel in it, another instructor commented to me that you can teach someone to fly, but you can't teach them common sense. A good pilot is one who is safe and makes sensible decisions. It has little to do with ability to manipulate the controls or how quickly you learned to do that.
These days, people come flying with me on trial lessons, and more than one has marvelled at what they perceive as my "completely natural" flying ability. Me, a natural? That's a joke...though I did take to helicopters a little more quickly than f/w. But I only look like I was born in an R22 because I have hundreds of hours flying them. And that's how you learn to fly, and go solo - by practising. And if you need a little more practice than some, who cares?
Recently, after a student brought back an aircraft with no fuel in it, another instructor commented to me that you can teach someone to fly, but you can't teach them common sense. A good pilot is one who is safe and makes sensible decisions. It has little to do with ability to manipulate the controls or how quickly you learned to do that.
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I did 11 hours after which my instructor said next time i'd probably go solo. The owner of the plane wanted to be there so called him up on the instructors suggestion to have him over the next day. (he is the agent for the Remos i'm buying and i was using his for my training till mine arrived)
i had a big job at work i had to get done for the next day so i went in to the office that night - ended up working till 3am. I got home all hyped up about going solo the next day and didnt sleep. I arrived out at the airfield the next day with my eyes hanging out. We flew, i kept waiting for the magic "i'll get out now", eventually i got "just park it up"
i was gutted, i'd blown it - i wasn't ready, i knew i wasn't ready. My landings werent bad but both the instrucor and myself knew i wasn't ready. The next day i did my first solo after only 2 circuits with the instructor
so, 12 hours. but then it's only a microlight
i had a big job at work i had to get done for the next day so i went in to the office that night - ended up working till 3am. I got home all hyped up about going solo the next day and didnt sleep. I arrived out at the airfield the next day with my eyes hanging out. We flew, i kept waiting for the magic "i'll get out now", eventually i got "just park it up"
i was gutted, i'd blown it - i wasn't ready, i knew i wasn't ready. My landings werent bad but both the instrucor and myself knew i wasn't ready. The next day i did my first solo after only 2 circuits with the instructor
so, 12 hours. but then it's only a microlight
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Hours are the wrong yardstick
Having instructed at an airfield that has to fly a large circuit because of noise abatement I would have said about 12-18 hours to solo but now I instruct at an airfield with a very tight 800ft circuit and the time to solo has reduced.
The concusion that I have come to is the hours to solo may have reduced but the number of landings to solo has not.
As the part of the circuit that most people find the hardest to achive is the touchdown it is critical to get the highest number of landings per hour.
So if you want to go solo quickly find an airfield at which the circuit wont take you on a cross-country.
The concusion that I have come to is the hours to solo may have reduced but the number of landings to solo has not.
As the part of the circuit that most people find the hardest to achive is the touchdown it is critical to get the highest number of landings per hour.
So if you want to go solo quickly find an airfield at which the circuit wont take you on a cross-country.
Avoid imitations
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I totally agree that the amount of time taken to solo is not too important. Although I went solo with a fairly low number of hours, the following factors must be taken into account:
I was on a full-time residential course, an RAF Flying Scholarship, taught by civvy instructors. We had few outside distractions; we lived, breathed and dreamed aviation. We lived thirty yards from the aircraft.
I was just 17 yrs old. The benefits of youth are that one's brain is more likely to be relatively fresh and free of clutter (like worries about mortgage payments, sick kids back home, the argument with the wife this morning, etc).
The syllabus required us to go more or less on time. We were given a finite number of hours only.
We had all passed RAF aptitude tests for pilot. We were essentially, competing for a limited number of places to enter the RAF as pilots.
Although I "shone" a bit to start with, only few years later, in RAF training, I struggled more than a little and needed some extra hours to meet the standard required. My brain had other stuff going on, which provided a distraction, and I suffered a lack of continuity due to illness. I also had early doubts about my chosen path and had a personality clash with an instructor. In those days we were expected to be single pilot, steely-eyed killers who ate eat raw beef; anyone who didn't make the grade to fighter pilot was a substandard human being and threatened with being relegated to multi-engine or even worse, helicopters! We had to meet the continuous assessment standards. If we failed a trip (they were all assessed), we were given just five hours "flex" to pass a check-ride; if a pilot didn't meet the standard after that, essentially we got a "chop-ride" with the big boss and that usually meant the boot. The "chop rate" was high. I survived, by the skin of my teeth; however due to a medical problem (and probably a lack of suitable oulook / aptitude) I didn't make fast jets. I most certainly don't regret that.
Interestingly, some of the "Top gun hotshots" I knew from those days are no longer with us, lost to accidents, some early on. On the other hand, some of the strugglers and plodders became very accomplished pilots and made it to the top of the RAF.
This thread below is of interest:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=164794
See post #7.
I worked with Sqn Ldr Malcolm Hunt (know him quite well) whilst instructing. IMHO, He is absolutely correct that it would often have been better to give more hours to a "slower to learn" pilot than to chop him (there were no female RAF pilots back then) and just find someone else instead, as the RAF has done in the past.
What a "hotshot" pilot cannot get taught is experience. A "slower" pilot is often a safer pilot because of a more cautious or thoughtful outlook.
First solo is a very small step. What happens later is far more important, IMHO.
I was on a full-time residential course, an RAF Flying Scholarship, taught by civvy instructors. We had few outside distractions; we lived, breathed and dreamed aviation. We lived thirty yards from the aircraft.
I was just 17 yrs old. The benefits of youth are that one's brain is more likely to be relatively fresh and free of clutter (like worries about mortgage payments, sick kids back home, the argument with the wife this morning, etc).
The syllabus required us to go more or less on time. We were given a finite number of hours only.
We had all passed RAF aptitude tests for pilot. We were essentially, competing for a limited number of places to enter the RAF as pilots.
Although I "shone" a bit to start with, only few years later, in RAF training, I struggled more than a little and needed some extra hours to meet the standard required. My brain had other stuff going on, which provided a distraction, and I suffered a lack of continuity due to illness. I also had early doubts about my chosen path and had a personality clash with an instructor. In those days we were expected to be single pilot, steely-eyed killers who ate eat raw beef; anyone who didn't make the grade to fighter pilot was a substandard human being and threatened with being relegated to multi-engine or even worse, helicopters! We had to meet the continuous assessment standards. If we failed a trip (they were all assessed), we were given just five hours "flex" to pass a check-ride; if a pilot didn't meet the standard after that, essentially we got a "chop-ride" with the big boss and that usually meant the boot. The "chop rate" was high. I survived, by the skin of my teeth; however due to a medical problem (and probably a lack of suitable oulook / aptitude) I didn't make fast jets. I most certainly don't regret that.
Interestingly, some of the "Top gun hotshots" I knew from those days are no longer with us, lost to accidents, some early on. On the other hand, some of the strugglers and plodders became very accomplished pilots and made it to the top of the RAF.
This thread below is of interest:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=164794
See post #7.
I worked with Sqn Ldr Malcolm Hunt (know him quite well) whilst instructing. IMHO, He is absolutely correct that it would often have been better to give more hours to a "slower to learn" pilot than to chop him (there were no female RAF pilots back then) and just find someone else instead, as the RAF has done in the past.
What a "hotshot" pilot cannot get taught is experience. A "slower" pilot is often a safer pilot because of a more cautious or thoughtful outlook.
First solo is a very small step. What happens later is far more important, IMHO.
Pompey till I die
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I did my first solo in around 10 hours. There again I flew twice a weekend and I was on the end of some great flying weekends with no breaks due to wx.
I think the question is relevant though. Given you are paying such a large amount of cash for a PPL it's good to have a yard stick as to how far you are against money and time spent.
I got my PPL on 45 hours, so using a sample size of 1 you can suggest solo at 10, complete at 45.
This is not due to some incredible aptitude on my part. It was due to having an incredible instructor, now I've been flying for a year and a half, I can look back and understand how lucky I was to walk into such a well run flight school. Especially when you read on here about others ending up not so well off.
Also I had no commitments, and the money to fly every weekend, plus I took a couple of weeks off work and worked 7 days a week 9:00->17:00 on the flying. Which again helped the solo'ing and completion.
I guess I'm just trying to get at, as others did, your natural ability doesn't have as large an impact on your solo time \ completion time as a whole bunch of other factors in your control.
I think the question is relevant though. Given you are paying such a large amount of cash for a PPL it's good to have a yard stick as to how far you are against money and time spent.
I got my PPL on 45 hours, so using a sample size of 1 you can suggest solo at 10, complete at 45.
This is not due to some incredible aptitude on my part. It was due to having an incredible instructor, now I've been flying for a year and a half, I can look back and understand how lucky I was to walk into such a well run flight school. Especially when you read on here about others ending up not so well off.
Also I had no commitments, and the money to fly every weekend, plus I took a couple of weeks off work and worked 7 days a week 9:00->17:00 on the flying. Which again helped the solo'ing and completion.
I guess I'm just trying to get at, as others did, your natural ability doesn't have as large an impact on your solo time \ completion time as a whole bunch of other factors in your control.
I failed to go solo after 8 hours in the UAS. Mind you it was over about 7 months of flying, which didnt really help!
Some ten years later i soloed in 6 hours and didnt know what the fuss was all about!
I guess the key is consistency and a 'cool head', something i lacked when i was 19!!!
Some ten years later i soloed in 6 hours and didnt know what the fuss was all about!
I guess the key is consistency and a 'cool head', something i lacked when i was 19!!!
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Just out of interest, and addressed to Roger10-4, PompeyPaul and others with short solo times...
When somebody say they flew their first solo in say, 15 hours, I conclude that they took to the circuit work very quickly, however you guys state 6 and 10 hours respectively, I had a feeling that I hadn't even started in the circuit by this time so I checked my logbook, and for reference here are the first few entries...
Hour 1: Air experience flight
Hour 2: Effects of controls
Hour 3: Straight and Level flight
Hour 4: Climbing and descending
Hour 5: Turning
Hour 6: S&L, C&D and Turning review
Hour 7: Power off stalls
Hour 8: Power on stalls + Spin recovery demo (
)
Hour 9: Slow flight
Hour 10: Begun circuit work
.
.
.
Hour 25: First solo
The space inbetween hour 10 and 25 was a mix of EFATOs, Go arounds, glide approaches, flapless approaches and repeating regular circuits.
I had always kind of assumed that it was this space (10-25) that varied for students. I like to believe that every student does at least a couple of EFATOs and go arounds before first solo.
As there seems to be a near consensus that pre-solo hours are not a definate guide to a students ability, I am interested in how your training differed as this seems to be the crucial point. These threads generate the same points over and over, but I dont think I have seen any that discuss the pre-solo training given.
I would think that hours 3, 4, and 5 in my above list are the only ones that would be considered absolutely mandatory before starting circuit work. Is this a fair assumption? Did everybody work through stalls and slow flight pre-solo? How many EFATOs and Go arrounds?
Would be nice to see some examples of how training differs between schools.... and over the years from some of the more.... 'seasoned' pilots
When somebody say they flew their first solo in say, 15 hours, I conclude that they took to the circuit work very quickly, however you guys state 6 and 10 hours respectively, I had a feeling that I hadn't even started in the circuit by this time so I checked my logbook, and for reference here are the first few entries...
Hour 1: Air experience flight
Hour 2: Effects of controls
Hour 3: Straight and Level flight
Hour 4: Climbing and descending
Hour 5: Turning
Hour 6: S&L, C&D and Turning review
Hour 7: Power off stalls
Hour 8: Power on stalls + Spin recovery demo (
)Hour 9: Slow flight
Hour 10: Begun circuit work
.
.
.
Hour 25: First solo
The space inbetween hour 10 and 25 was a mix of EFATOs, Go arounds, glide approaches, flapless approaches and repeating regular circuits.
I had always kind of assumed that it was this space (10-25) that varied for students. I like to believe that every student does at least a couple of EFATOs and go arounds before first solo.
As there seems to be a near consensus that pre-solo hours are not a definate guide to a students ability, I am interested in how your training differed as this seems to be the crucial point. These threads generate the same points over and over, but I dont think I have seen any that discuss the pre-solo training given.
I would think that hours 3, 4, and 5 in my above list are the only ones that would be considered absolutely mandatory before starting circuit work. Is this a fair assumption? Did everybody work through stalls and slow flight pre-solo? How many EFATOs and Go arrounds?
Would be nice to see some examples of how training differs between schools.... and over the years from some of the more.... 'seasoned' pilots
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You have to know that alot (not all) of those people who go solo in 6 or 8 hours usually have been flying alot with their dad or something like that.
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As said above, no general rule for the solo...
I soloed after something like 16 hours, I was 15 years old (French regulation allows that).
As an instructor, I trained a lot of PPLs on an uncontrolled airfield, so I wanted to make sure they could divert if needed with no ATC assistance.
That's why I preferned no to hurry to let them solo, so never less than 12 for me, most of them more than 15.
We desagreed on that point with the chief pilot, he often endorsed students for solo with less than 10 hours.
I endorsed a bunch of students for the solo...
No average for the solo, it depended mainly on the intensity of their training, and on their age.
Don't think that the youngest the best, not always...
Young pilots are good at repeating exactly what you show them, and for maneuvers, but they are less good at making a decision because have a lack of maturity.
And sometimes you explain them something, they understand... but forget after 48 hours.
Older pilots need more time to understand and copy what you show them, but they understand more deeply, and are more calm, more mature, and make better decisions.
The one I'm very proud of : it was not his first solo, it was is first tailwheel solo that I endorsed.
But damn ! it took a while !
This nice guy was a former taxi driver in Paris. He had spent his life dreaming about flying.
He took his first flying lesson at the age of 62. I was not the instructor. He told me it took a while for him to get his PPL...
He remembered those pretty Pipercubs when he was a young boy, and there was one at the airclub, a L18 more exactly.
He really wanted to fly it.
He told me "you know I'm a bit old, I will probably need time to be able to fly it".
I answered "OK so we'll take time for that !"
I do not remember how many hours we flew together.
But if you had seen this smile when he taxied back after his "first" solo on the Piper... :-)
Frog
I soloed after something like 16 hours, I was 15 years old (French regulation allows that).
As an instructor, I trained a lot of PPLs on an uncontrolled airfield, so I wanted to make sure they could divert if needed with no ATC assistance.
That's why I preferned no to hurry to let them solo, so never less than 12 for me, most of them more than 15.
We desagreed on that point with the chief pilot, he often endorsed students for solo with less than 10 hours.
I endorsed a bunch of students for the solo...
No average for the solo, it depended mainly on the intensity of their training, and on their age.
Don't think that the youngest the best, not always...
Young pilots are good at repeating exactly what you show them, and for maneuvers, but they are less good at making a decision because have a lack of maturity.
And sometimes you explain them something, they understand... but forget after 48 hours.
Older pilots need more time to understand and copy what you show them, but they understand more deeply, and are more calm, more mature, and make better decisions.
The one I'm very proud of : it was not his first solo, it was is first tailwheel solo that I endorsed.
But damn ! it took a while !
This nice guy was a former taxi driver in Paris. He had spent his life dreaming about flying.
He took his first flying lesson at the age of 62. I was not the instructor. He told me it took a while for him to get his PPL...
He remembered those pretty Pipercubs when he was a young boy, and there was one at the airclub, a L18 more exactly.
He really wanted to fly it.
He told me "you know I'm a bit old, I will probably need time to be able to fly it".
I answered "OK so we'll take time for that !"
I do not remember how many hours we flew together.
But if you had seen this smile when he taxied back after his "first" solo on the Piper... :-)
Frog
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Solo at 25hrs, skill test at 60 hours.
I'm not unhappy with that. My FI(R) referred me to the CFI when he thought the time was right for both solo and skill test and on both occassions, he was spot on as the CFI agreed.
I was eager at the time, but looking back (2 years to the solo), it made perfect sense. You can't get that licence before 45 hours, so what's the rush?
Despite the approval of two instructors for that first solo, I landed and steered the aircraft betweek two rows with no parking spaces, a fence at the end and no room to turn round, so had to shut down and call on the radio for a push.
Not all mistakes will happen in the air on that first solo! Reasonable flight but made a t1t of myself at the end!
I'm not unhappy with that. My FI(R) referred me to the CFI when he thought the time was right for both solo and skill test and on both occassions, he was spot on as the CFI agreed.
I was eager at the time, but looking back (2 years to the solo), it made perfect sense. You can't get that licence before 45 hours, so what's the rush?
Despite the approval of two instructors for that first solo, I landed and steered the aircraft betweek two rows with no parking spaces, a fence at the end and no room to turn round, so had to shut down and call on the radio for a push.
Not all mistakes will happen in the air on that first solo! Reasonable flight but made a t1t of myself at the end!
The Original Whirly
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digital.poet,
Asking about what exercises had been done...that's a very good point. I'd be really interested to know too. So, for those of you who soloed in single digit hours, could you possibly post what exercises you'd done, and how long of each. Because I think you have to do at least a couple of hours of stall recovery. And I too can't see how you could fit it all in to less than ten hours, and I'm curious.
Asking about what exercises had been done...that's a very good point. I'd be really interested to know too. So, for those of you who soloed in single digit hours, could you possibly post what exercises you'd done, and how long of each. Because I think you have to do at least a couple of hours of stall recovery. And I too can't see how you could fit it all in to less than ten hours, and I'm curious.
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Me: 20.1 hours and 63 landings before first solo. Done in nine days on one of those three-week courses in Florida. My instructor thought I was ready for solo at 15 hours, but then weather and circumstances (including an instructor change) conspired against it.
My first cross-country solo was at 24.6 hours total flight time and the qualifying xc was the flight straight after that, at 26.5 hours, three days after going solo. Before going solo I had already done a lot of dual cross-country work. Not just diversions to nearest alternate but proper 2.5 hour x-country flights which, if done solo, would have fulfilled the qualifying cross country conditions. And I already had a nautical navigation diploma, which helped a lot.
My first cross-country solo was at 24.6 hours total flight time and the qualifying xc was the flight straight after that, at 26.5 hours, three days after going solo. Before going solo I had already done a lot of dual cross-country work. Not just diversions to nearest alternate but proper 2.5 hour x-country flights which, if done solo, would have fulfilled the qualifying cross country conditions. And I already had a nautical navigation diploma, which helped a lot.
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digital.poet,
Asking about what exercises had been done...that's a very good point. I'd be really interested to know too. So, for those of you who soloed in single digit hours, could you possibly post what exercises you'd done, and how long of each. Because I think you have to do at least a couple of hours of stall recovery. And I too can't see how you could fit it all in to less than ten hours, and I'm curious.
Asking about what exercises had been done...that's a very good point. I'd be really interested to know too. So, for those of you who soloed in single digit hours, could you possibly post what exercises you'd done, and how long of each. Because I think you have to do at least a couple of hours of stall recovery. And I too can't see how you could fit it all in to less than ten hours, and I'm curious.
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I can't help but feel that a good instructor will know when the time is right for you, the student to take that step. Trust his or her judgement. He/she won't let you loose if he/she doesn't believe you can do it. The paperwork that follows would be just too much hassle. You, the student, will probably also have some idea that the time is about right too, and like that first time you headed off on your bike without the stabilisers or a caring hand on the saddle, it has to be done. If you're not prepared to trust your instructor's judgement, see the sentence at the end of the next paragraph.
Whilst there may not be a particular "right" number of hours, there may (must/should) be a point at which either student or instructor will recognise that this just isn't working out. That may be the time to call it quits and go and do something else and, just out of curiosity, how goes the bike riding?
I was somewhat taken aback to be discussing hours with a young chap and his dad recently to find that the lad had done 25+ hours and was still not off by himself. Perhaps the lack of an air law pass was affecting things, but hey.... come on.
From the many books written by heroic aviators like Bader, Stanford-Tuck, Oxspring and, perhaps also the not-so-heroic, and the like I would guesstimate that around 8-12 hours is about the norm for a first solo, and often it is better to have it sprung upon you at the time rather than having a couple of nights to dwell upon the prospect. If it affects you that badly, then refer to the last sentence of the second paragraph
My Dad, a 20 year old RAFVR cadet pilot (young whippersnapper) soloed on Tiger Moth T5842 on 6th April 1944 at RAF Shellingford after 9hrs 35mins dual in 18 flights
His KOS of a son (a bit over 50 years old at the time) managed it at in 11hrs (Dad's still one up on me there), after 9 flights in a PA38, at Sleap in 2003, and I would have to say that I was surprised and delighted when told to go off and do a circuit by myself. I trusted my instructor's judgement, and maybe mine. Thanks Alan.
As with passing your driving test, you learn more when you are in sole command, so it is with this flying malarky. The first solo is a milestone and just another point from which more learning develops. Every time I fly I learn; whether with an instructor, or solo or with passengers. Recognise that you cannot ever know it all at any particular point in time, but if you want to learn and develop your skills and experience you will.
Octavian
Whilst there may not be a particular "right" number of hours, there may (must/should) be a point at which either student or instructor will recognise that this just isn't working out. That may be the time to call it quits and go and do something else and, just out of curiosity, how goes the bike riding?
I was somewhat taken aback to be discussing hours with a young chap and his dad recently to find that the lad had done 25+ hours and was still not off by himself. Perhaps the lack of an air law pass was affecting things, but hey.... come on.
From the many books written by heroic aviators like Bader, Stanford-Tuck, Oxspring and, perhaps also the not-so-heroic, and the like I would guesstimate that around 8-12 hours is about the norm for a first solo, and often it is better to have it sprung upon you at the time rather than having a couple of nights to dwell upon the prospect. If it affects you that badly, then refer to the last sentence of the second paragraph
My Dad, a 20 year old RAFVR cadet pilot (young whippersnapper) soloed on Tiger Moth T5842 on 6th April 1944 at RAF Shellingford after 9hrs 35mins dual in 18 flights
His KOS of a son (a bit over 50 years old at the time) managed it at in 11hrs (Dad's still one up on me there), after 9 flights in a PA38, at Sleap in 2003, and I would have to say that I was surprised and delighted when told to go off and do a circuit by myself. I trusted my instructor's judgement, and maybe mine. Thanks Alan.
As with passing your driving test, you learn more when you are in sole command, so it is with this flying malarky. The first solo is a milestone and just another point from which more learning develops. Every time I fly I learn; whether with an instructor, or solo or with passengers. Recognise that you cannot ever know it all at any particular point in time, but if you want to learn and develop your skills and experience you will.
Octavian
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Well, like I said ... not really very important as circumstances differ for almost everyone. Here's my example to show how difficult it is to make any sense of what the "average" is.
I flew gliders before power, so obviously knew the basics before I ever flew powered aircraft. My times were ... 3.5 hrs from zero to first glider solo (34 landings). Then 9 hours to go solo in a DH82a Tigermoth, having gained 19 hours, (200 landings) in gliders and a bronze C. I took my skills test at 35 hours, but my qualifying cross country was delayed by three months due weather then lack of money. I completed my PPL with 43 hours, exactly two years after my first powered flight.
The gliding was a good grounding and as you can see, you certainly get to practise landings! You might clock more hours in gliders these days as they are more efficient (my average training flight was about 4 minutes!) but the older gliders were great for learning quickly.
I might have gone solo faster if the training had been more consistant or in an "easier" type than a Tigermoth. Then again, I may have taken longer if I'd not flown gliders first or been older, or caught bad weather, or had an instructor I clashed with, or, or, or ....
See what I mean? It's almost pointless to try and compare oneself to the "average".
SS
I flew gliders before power, so obviously knew the basics before I ever flew powered aircraft. My times were ... 3.5 hrs from zero to first glider solo (34 landings). Then 9 hours to go solo in a DH82a Tigermoth, having gained 19 hours, (200 landings) in gliders and a bronze C. I took my skills test at 35 hours, but my qualifying cross country was delayed by three months due weather then lack of money. I completed my PPL with 43 hours, exactly two years after my first powered flight.
The gliding was a good grounding and as you can see, you certainly get to practise landings! You might clock more hours in gliders these days as they are more efficient (my average training flight was about 4 minutes!) but the older gliders were great for learning quickly.
I might have gone solo faster if the training had been more consistant or in an "easier" type than a Tigermoth. Then again, I may have taken longer if I'd not flown gliders first or been older, or caught bad weather, or had an instructor I clashed with, or, or, or ....
See what I mean? It's almost pointless to try and compare oneself to the "average".
SS