Beech down
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
My raft (Survival Products) weighs about 10kg.
I am curious about the "one wing full and one empty" issue. On my TB20 I can feel a noticeable roll tendency (needing constant aileron input) if the tanks are only a bit, say 20USG, out of balance. So, using the accurate fuel gauges, I run them reasonably balanced but with about 3mm extra on the RH (as seen on the gauges) if flying alone. A complete full tank one side would be most noticeable, unless one had aileron trim, used it blindly, AND never even looked at where the ailerons are sitting.
I am curious about the "one wing full and one empty" issue. On my TB20 I can feel a noticeable roll tendency (needing constant aileron input) if the tanks are only a bit, say 20USG, out of balance. So, using the accurate fuel gauges, I run them reasonably balanced but with about 3mm extra on the RH (as seen on the gauges) if flying alone. A complete full tank one side would be most noticeable, unless one had aileron trim, used it blindly, AND never even looked at where the ailerons are sitting.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
Or one had 2 engines and you were balancing out with asymmetric thrust. On an underpowered twin you would probably notice the difference on a very big engined twin like the Baron it would be hard to detect.
On the Duchess I fly it is normal to have the levers a couple of inches apart and still have the engines in sync.
On the Duchess I fly it is normal to have the levers a couple of inches apart and still have the engines in sync.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,648
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From: UK
Does this type feed both engines from the same tank?
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
Or one had 2 engines and you were balancing out with asymmetric thrust. On an underpowered twin you would probably notice the difference on a very big engined twin like the Baron it would be hard to detect.
On the Duchess I fly it is normal to have the levers a couple of inches apart and still have the engines in sync.
On the Duchess I fly it is normal to have the levers a couple of inches apart and still have the engines in sync.
TWO INCHES of MP is a big power difference. I've just looked up the IO540-C sea level performance and say 25" v. 23" at 2575 is about 20HP at 190HP, and a similar 20HP difference at lower or higher MP levels. If you get the same RPM on both engines with this much thrust difference then the prop governor needs some serious adjusting.
Also, the fuel flow difference would be obvious - if you have a flowmeter on each engine, and if you haven't, we are back to guessing what is in the tank.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
I would suggest the plane in question needs a proper service, bose-x
TWO INCHES of MP is a big power difference. I've just looked up the IO540-C sea level performance and say 25" v. 23" at 2575 is about 20HP at 190HP, and a similar 20HP difference at lower or higher MP levels. If you get the same RPM on both engines with this much thrust difference then the prop governor needs some serious adjusting.
Also, the fuel flow difference would be obvious - if you have a flowmeter on each engine, and if you haven't, we are back to guessing what is in the tank.
TWO INCHES of MP is a big power difference. I've just looked up the IO540-C sea level performance and say 25" v. 23" at 2575 is about 20HP at 190HP, and a similar 20HP difference at lower or higher MP levels. If you get the same RPM on both engines with this much thrust difference then the prop governor needs some serious adjusting.
Also, the fuel flow difference would be obvious - if you have a flowmeter on each engine, and if you haven't, we are back to guessing what is in the tank.
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
OK I thought you meant two inches of MP, not two inches of lever position. The latter is just badly fitted control cables, maybe one is even a bit loose, which is all right then 
I would never put up with that - it would be straight back to the shop.
I would never put up with that - it would be straight back to the shop.
Fly Conventional Gear
Joined: May 2007
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From: Winchester
Bose didn't mention anything about Manifold Pressure. I've flown plenty of aircraft that have needed the levers in funny positions to give the same RPM and MP.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,130
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From: U.K.
After a few years of flying "older" aircraft I soon learnt that my ears were far more important than the RPM gauges, even whe they are electronic and reading exactly the same, down to the last rpm, and yet you still think you are part of a WW2 bomber stream.
Anyway back on thread.
A real shame and a waste of life like any aircraft accident. I have no idea why it went down or the reasons and wouldn't want to speculate on it.
Anyway back on thread.
A real shame and a waste of life like any aircraft accident. I have no idea why it went down or the reasons and wouldn't want to speculate on it.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 760
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From: Rural England, thank God.
Thanks for the Telegraph link, I had missed it. I now realise I know Mark, the survivor. He is a very experienced pilot. Sadly I last saw him at the funeral of a mutual friend, who ironically had also died in a twin accident in France.
Skua
Skua
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
Yes he is based out of our place normally, kept the baron at Covetry as our runway was not really long enough. He employed the pilots to fly it as he does not have a twin rating.
A lucky escape, very sad for the loss of life though.
A lucky escape, very sad for the loss of life though.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 39
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From: west berkshire
From The Telegraph:
"For 25 minutes, the plane steadily lost altitude until it was spluttering 10 feet above the sea.
Then I saw the wing tip clip a wave and then the whole plane cart-wheeled. There was a bang."
If the pilot had trimmed off the yaw tendancy due to the first engine failure, then had closed the second throttle in preparation for the crash, then the aircraft would have yawed the other way if he hadn't anticipated it, ( quite possible if he had be flying for 25 mins. over water, under that amount of stress ). Yaw = roll = wing tip hitting the water first. Just what you don't want. Another case maybe where 2 engines on a light twin equals twice as much trouble, instead of half as much. I'd be interested to learn which wingtip hit the water first.
"For 25 minutes, the plane steadily lost altitude until it was spluttering 10 feet above the sea.
Then I saw the wing tip clip a wave and then the whole plane cart-wheeled. There was a bang."
If the pilot had trimmed off the yaw tendancy due to the first engine failure, then had closed the second throttle in preparation for the crash, then the aircraft would have yawed the other way if he hadn't anticipated it, ( quite possible if he had be flying for 25 mins. over water, under that amount of stress ). Yaw = roll = wing tip hitting the water first. Just what you don't want. Another case maybe where 2 engines on a light twin equals twice as much trouble, instead of half as much. I'd be interested to learn which wingtip hit the water first.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,045
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From: North of CDG
I also found out that my friend Chris is one of the two fatalities. He was a real nice guy with a passion for flying, and had been an FI for nearly a year. He was also a part-time flight dispatcher. Very, very sad.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 584
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From: 1000ft above you, giving you the bird!
a4fly - a/c decending to nearest coastline which was 60 degrees to the wave direction and swell - every inch closer to the beach was probably more important than trying to alter heading with failed engines and stalling 2 feet above the surface. 3 people knew they were going to get wet and cold...fully expect that the upwind wing clipped the top of a crest which would have caused the a/c aircraft to rotate starboard, probably digging its nose in, and depending on what speed initial wing contact with wave depends on whether it cartwheels to end up inverted or water-loops which is the same as a ground loop and stays upright with massive deceleration.... AAIB will give the eventual outcome of course...
More than probable the other two were injured and alive after ditching, but water temperature just too cold to last very long at all at the moment - less than 20 mins in most cases - add injuries - terrible, terrible shame.
Sounds like Rodney was as cool as a cucumber and did everything in his power to make the best outcome but it ended up costig his own life - top respect to him and the other guy who sounds like he would of been playing his part also.
More than probable the other two were injured and alive after ditching, but water temperature just too cold to last very long at all at the moment - less than 20 mins in most cases - add injuries - terrible, terrible shame.
Sounds like Rodney was as cool as a cucumber and did everything in his power to make the best outcome but it ended up costig his own life - top respect to him and the other guy who sounds like he would of been playing his part also.
