NPPL (M) to NPPL (SEP) - In What & Where?
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NPPL (M) to NPPL (SEP) - In What & Where?
Hi
I have my NPPL (M), flying a fixed low wing Eurostar http://www.flycb.com/ev97eurostar.html. Frankly I am a bit spoilt by it, as it is a modern (1yo) 100mph cruise aircraft using 12 litres an hour. I currently fly from Sywell, Northamptonshire, which is 10 mins down the road from me.
I want to do my NPPL (SEP) conversion, so I can fly some different types in future, maybe do the AOPA aerobatics certificate, etc. However I want to make sure that in doing it I get experience quite different to the Eurostar I currently fly. I also don't really want to step back to a 1960's Cessna
Where - Within an hour of me I have Cranfield, Connington, Sibson, Old Warden, Leicester, Coventry, Cambridge, etc. Cranfield attracts - as it is a very different airfield to Sywell and the closest of the above list.
What - This is the key question, and may well drive the 'where'. I want to fly something different, I quite fancy a glass cockpit, maybe something a bit aerobatic (but not the Extra at 200 an hour!).
So, I'm looking for suggestions as to who has got what where please?
Thanks
Kevin
I have my NPPL (M), flying a fixed low wing Eurostar http://www.flycb.com/ev97eurostar.html. Frankly I am a bit spoilt by it, as it is a modern (1yo) 100mph cruise aircraft using 12 litres an hour. I currently fly from Sywell, Northamptonshire, which is 10 mins down the road from me.
I want to do my NPPL (SEP) conversion, so I can fly some different types in future, maybe do the AOPA aerobatics certificate, etc. However I want to make sure that in doing it I get experience quite different to the Eurostar I currently fly. I also don't really want to step back to a 1960's Cessna
Where - Within an hour of me I have Cranfield, Connington, Sibson, Old Warden, Leicester, Coventry, Cambridge, etc. Cranfield attracts - as it is a very different airfield to Sywell and the closest of the above list.
What - This is the key question, and may well drive the 'where'. I want to fly something different, I quite fancy a glass cockpit, maybe something a bit aerobatic (but not the Extra at 200 an hour!).
So, I'm looking for suggestions as to who has got what where please?
Thanks
Kevin
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I did my NPPL (m) to Nppl SEP about 3 months ago.
I was flying an Icarus C42 (passed my Microlight 18 months ago) and i had bought an RV6 so i needed the SEP rating (now called SSEA)
it took me 3 1/2 hours in a 172 1 exam and a Skils test (was 40 mins) no nav required
i approached my flying school at Southend Airport and they were not realy interested at all, (NPPL what..... is that a real licence!!)
I then trawled the net, found all the relevant forms and cross reference papers in LASORS etc and it was relatively simple!
so i found a guy called Trevor (an aerobatic instructor from headcorn) who flew a 172 to my local field in essex, we done 3 1/2 hours covering what was required and he said i was ready to take my skils test and signed my log book off (on the first page!!)
looking deaper it says that if you have flown 100 hours, and also done a cross country flight of over 100nm to two diferent airfields in the last 3 months in an ICAO contracting state then the nav test can be wavered.
so i got in my microlight, flew to Clacton, met an instructor there and told him i wanted to take my Skills test. he was a bit shocked but said that he would take me up, see how i got on and go from there. So we went up (luckily) in a 172 and did some general handeling and a couple of circuits and he said i was fine. We went back inside, he called a few instructors and found that a Lady called Jo could come and do it. so two hours later after she had carefully gone over all the paperwork, checked LASORS etc i had passed my skills test and was on my way to Southend to pick up my Exam paper (i had took the Genral and principles of flight exam there earlier) once i got that i went home and put all the papers together.
next day i drove to Turweston (NPPL) and handed the receptionist all i had and she checked it against a check list and said all was fine. within 2 weeks my new NPPL (SEP) was on the dorestep!
it was far less hassel than i thought and made much easier by the guys at Clacton as they most accomadating!
Dave S
I was flying an Icarus C42 (passed my Microlight 18 months ago) and i had bought an RV6 so i needed the SEP rating (now called SSEA)
it took me 3 1/2 hours in a 172 1 exam and a Skils test (was 40 mins) no nav required
i approached my flying school at Southend Airport and they were not realy interested at all, (NPPL what..... is that a real licence!!)
I then trawled the net, found all the relevant forms and cross reference papers in LASORS etc and it was relatively simple!
so i found a guy called Trevor (an aerobatic instructor from headcorn) who flew a 172 to my local field in essex, we done 3 1/2 hours covering what was required and he said i was ready to take my skils test and signed my log book off (on the first page!!)
looking deaper it says that if you have flown 100 hours, and also done a cross country flight of over 100nm to two diferent airfields in the last 3 months in an ICAO contracting state then the nav test can be wavered.
so i got in my microlight, flew to Clacton, met an instructor there and told him i wanted to take my Skills test. he was a bit shocked but said that he would take me up, see how i got on and go from there. So we went up (luckily) in a 172 and did some general handeling and a couple of circuits and he said i was fine. We went back inside, he called a few instructors and found that a Lady called Jo could come and do it. so two hours later after she had carefully gone over all the paperwork, checked LASORS etc i had passed my skills test and was on my way to Southend to pick up my Exam paper (i had took the Genral and principles of flight exam there earlier) once i got that i went home and put all the papers together.
next day i drove to Turweston (NPPL) and handed the receptionist all i had and she checked it against a check list and said all was fine. within 2 weeks my new NPPL (SEP) was on the dorestep!
it was far less hassel than i thought and made much easier by the guys at Clacton as they most accomadating!
Dave S
"looking deaper it says that if you have flown 100 hours, and also done a cross country flight of over 100nm to two diferent airfields in the last 3 months in an ICAO contracting state then the nav test can be wavered."
Wherever did you get that idea?
NPPL/XC REV06.6 gives no such dispensation for NPPL(Microlight) holders wishing to add a SSEA Class Rating. However, for holders of non-UK ICAO licences (e.g. someone who holds a current and valid FAA PPL), the allowance towards the NPPL (SSEA) is:
2.3 Non-UK licences
The holder of any licence issued by an ICAO Contracting State who wishes to obtain a NPPL (SEP) should contact the NPPL (SEP) assistance advisers for advice on the specific requirements for licence conversion.
These requirements will be determined by the holder’s current experience and will be assessed individually.
The applicant must also have passed the JAR-FCL PPL (A) Air Law and Operational Procedures and Human Performance and Limitation examinations prior to taking the NPPL (SEP) NST and GST. However, holders of such licences which are current and valid in all respects who have flown a minimum of 100 hours as pilot of aeroplanes shall be credited the NPPL NST if they have also flown a minimum of 5 hours P1C cross-country flight time in UK airspace in the 12 months prior to the date of licence application.
Incidentally, I trust that all the SSEA training was conducted from a licensed aerodrome?
Wherever did you get that idea?
NPPL/XC REV06.6 gives no such dispensation for NPPL(Microlight) holders wishing to add a SSEA Class Rating. However, for holders of non-UK ICAO licences (e.g. someone who holds a current and valid FAA PPL), the allowance towards the NPPL (SSEA) is:
2.3 Non-UK licences
The holder of any licence issued by an ICAO Contracting State who wishes to obtain a NPPL (SEP) should contact the NPPL (SEP) assistance advisers for advice on the specific requirements for licence conversion.
These requirements will be determined by the holder’s current experience and will be assessed individually.
The applicant must also have passed the JAR-FCL PPL (A) Air Law and Operational Procedures and Human Performance and Limitation examinations prior to taking the NPPL (SEP) NST and GST. However, holders of such licences which are current and valid in all respects who have flown a minimum of 100 hours as pilot of aeroplanes shall be credited the NPPL NST if they have also flown a minimum of 5 hours P1C cross-country flight time in UK airspace in the 12 months prior to the date of licence application.
Incidentally, I trust that all the SSEA training was conducted from a licensed aerodrome?
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With all this confusion, I'd not be surprised (not that I really care) that there are probably a fair number of pilots around flying completely illegally???
When I did my PPL in the late 80's everything had to be sent to the CAA for checking. It took about three weeks and then my licence was issued, What happens with the NPPL? .... quick rubber stamp?
SS
When I did my PPL in the late 80's everything had to be sent to the CAA for checking. It took about three weeks and then my licence was issued, What happens with the NPPL? .... quick rubber stamp?
SS
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the training was done at a licenced airfield and air law is not a requirement, i had done air law and hum per. but they did not want to see them!
go to the NPPL Site
click on aplication forms
scroll down and look at "check list for SSEA/SLMG
go to the NPPL Site
click on aplication forms
scroll down and look at "check list for SSEA/SLMG
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Hi All
C42 - thanks for your info, As Beagle states I belive the NST should be required, but it is still good to hear that you didn't find the type conversion or NPPL SEP Skills test to hard.
Re the NST, I guess the confusion is over the statment on the NPPL Checklist "License issued by an ICAO Contracting State" - if this does not include an NPPL M, then perhaps someone should point that out to the BMA
All of that aside - It hijacks my thread a little because I am just looking for a good local airfield & training school with an interesting modern aircraft to do the conversion training in
Cheers
Kev
C42 - thanks for your info, As Beagle states I belive the NST should be required, but it is still good to hear that you didn't find the type conversion or NPPL SEP Skills test to hard.
Re the NST, I guess the confusion is over the statment on the NPPL Checklist "License issued by an ICAO Contracting State" - if this does not include an NPPL M, then perhaps someone should point that out to the BMA
All of that aside - It hijacks my thread a little because I am just looking for a good local airfield & training school with an interesting modern aircraft to do the conversion training in
Cheers
Kev
Last edited by kevwal; 19th Jan 2008 at 21:56.
That reference states:
For holders of licences issued by an ICAO Contracting State claiming credit towards the issue of a NPPL, the NST may be waived if the holder has flown a total of 100 hours as pilot of aeroplanes and also flown a minimum of 5 hours PIC cross-country flight time in UK airspace in the 12 months prior to the date of licence application. Certified log book evidence required.
This is, as I wrote earlier, for holders of an licences issued by an ICAO contracting state towards the issue of a NPPL. I happen to know this for a fact, since I secured this easement from the CAA in the first place AND I write the NPPL/XC/REV documents. It does NOT refer to the licence allowances applicable to existing NPPL (Microlight) holders adding SSEA Class Ratings to their licences, the requirements for which are listed in http://www.nppl.uk.com/documents/NPPLXCREV066_001.pdf
NPPL(Microlight) or UK PPL (Microlight) to NPPL (SEP)
The holder of a NPPL (Microlight) or UK PPL (M) licence without restrictions who wishes to obtain a NPPL (SEP) shall:
a. Produce the NPPL (Microlight) or UK PPL (M);
b. Produce logbook evidence of currency on Microlight aircraft;
c. Carry out such flying training in a single-engine piston aeroplane as is judged necessary by the SEP FI or CRI(SPA) giving the training to achieve the required standard to take the NPPL (SEP) NST and GST.
This training must include:
(1) Not less than 1 hour of dual instrument appreciation;
(2) 2 hours stall awareness/spin avoidance training;
(3) Differences training for Microlight pilots whose Microlight flying has been solely on flexwing machines;
(4) Not less than the 32 hours required minimum total flight time for the NPPL (SEP), which may be a combination of both Microlight and SEP flying.
d. Pass the JAR-FCL PPL (A) theoretical examination in Aircraft (General) and Principles of Flight;
e. Hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAR-FCL Class 1 or 2 medical certificate;
f. Pass the NPPL (SEP) NST and GST.
For the holder of a PPL (M) with operating restrictions, the requirements shall further include:
g. The whole of the navigation training required for the NPPL (SEP);
h. The completion of a minimum of 10 hours total solo flying which may be a combination of Microlight and SEP flying.
If you do not have another valid ICAO licence, as a NPPL (Microlight) holder you must pass a NST before you can be issued with a SSEA Class Rating.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I will ensure that NPLG are re-briefed accordingly.
For holders of licences issued by an ICAO Contracting State claiming credit towards the issue of a NPPL, the NST may be waived if the holder has flown a total of 100 hours as pilot of aeroplanes and also flown a minimum of 5 hours PIC cross-country flight time in UK airspace in the 12 months prior to the date of licence application. Certified log book evidence required.
This is, as I wrote earlier, for holders of an licences issued by an ICAO contracting state towards the issue of a NPPL. I happen to know this for a fact, since I secured this easement from the CAA in the first place AND I write the NPPL/XC/REV documents. It does NOT refer to the licence allowances applicable to existing NPPL (Microlight) holders adding SSEA Class Ratings to their licences, the requirements for which are listed in http://www.nppl.uk.com/documents/NPPLXCREV066_001.pdf
NPPL(Microlight) or UK PPL (Microlight) to NPPL (SEP)
The holder of a NPPL (Microlight) or UK PPL (M) licence without restrictions who wishes to obtain a NPPL (SEP) shall:
a. Produce the NPPL (Microlight) or UK PPL (M);
b. Produce logbook evidence of currency on Microlight aircraft;
c. Carry out such flying training in a single-engine piston aeroplane as is judged necessary by the SEP FI or CRI(SPA) giving the training to achieve the required standard to take the NPPL (SEP) NST and GST.
This training must include:
(1) Not less than 1 hour of dual instrument appreciation;
(2) 2 hours stall awareness/spin avoidance training;
(3) Differences training for Microlight pilots whose Microlight flying has been solely on flexwing machines;
(4) Not less than the 32 hours required minimum total flight time for the NPPL (SEP), which may be a combination of both Microlight and SEP flying.
d. Pass the JAR-FCL PPL (A) theoretical examination in Aircraft (General) and Principles of Flight;
e. Hold a valid NPPL Medical Declaration or JAR-FCL Class 1 or 2 medical certificate;
f. Pass the NPPL (SEP) NST and GST.
For the holder of a PPL (M) with operating restrictions, the requirements shall further include:
g. The whole of the navigation training required for the NPPL (SEP);
h. The completion of a minimum of 10 hours total solo flying which may be a combination of Microlight and SEP flying.
If you do not have another valid ICAO licence, as a NPPL (Microlight) holder you must pass a NST before you can be issued with a SSEA Class Rating.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I will ensure that NPLG are re-briefed accordingly.
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you got to admit the NST is a wast of time considering i have flown over 300 hours, flown all round Europe (in a microlight) and flew to Austria and spent 3 days exploring the Alps and i never got lost once! then im expected to do a NST in an area i fly in all the time that i would not even need to get the map out!
and what gives pilots from other contries more rights to an NPPL than us?
and what gives pilots from other contries more rights to an NPPL than us?
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Just looked up the list of ICAO contracting states and the United Kingdom is listed. My licence was therefore issued by a ICAO contracting State
For holders of licences issued by an ICAO Contracting State claiming credit towards the issue of a NPPL, the NST may be waived if the holder has flown a total of 100 hours as pilot of aeroplanes and also flown a minimum of 5 hours PIC cross-country flight time in UK airspace in the 12 months prior to the date of licence application. Certified log book evidence required.
For holders of licences issued by an ICAO Contracting State claiming credit towards the issue of a NPPL, the NST may be waived if the holder has flown a total of 100 hours as pilot of aeroplanes and also flown a minimum of 5 hours PIC cross-country flight time in UK airspace in the 12 months prior to the date of licence application. Certified log book evidence required.
Sorry, protest all you like but you are wrong.
The regulations for your conversion are quite specific.
I have now e-mailed NPLG to prevent further mis-interpretation of the 'NST waiver'. It applies specifically to non-UK ICAO aeroplane licence holders; however, I can see how you misunderstood their checklist as it has not made that point sufficiently clear.
The regulations for your conversion are quite specific.
I have now e-mailed NPLG to prevent further mis-interpretation of the 'NST waiver'. It applies specifically to non-UK ICAO aeroplane licence holders; however, I can see how you misunderstood their checklist as it has not made that point sufficiently clear.
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Kev, there are a few guys that fly into my local with Eurostars and they all swear by them. cracking machines!
I did my tailwheel conversion on a Cap 10 and a Harvard, and a bit of C/S prop in a Stearman. there are people around that will do your SEP in a plane that is not your average spam can, and it does give the learning an extra edge and makes the far more exessive cost per hour compared to your plane more value for money. have you tried north weald? there are schools there with all sorts of planes available.
Dave
I did my tailwheel conversion on a Cap 10 and a Harvard, and a bit of C/S prop in a Stearman. there are people around that will do your SEP in a plane that is not your average spam can, and it does give the learning an extra edge and makes the far more exessive cost per hour compared to your plane more value for money. have you tried north weald? there are schools there with all sorts of planes available.
Dave
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you are right of course as you wrote it! but i just went by the book and so did the 2 instructors i worked with as wel as the Examiner
Roll on EASA...... that should clear it all up!!!
Roll on EASA...... that should clear it all up!!!
