Weather question

[Put1992]

14 knot wind from 270 from a runway 23 in a 152?

suitable

Thanks

[dublinpilot]

Yes, except for a student doing circuit training.

dp

[Blink182]

Equates to 9kts.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/avxwindfactor.html


perfectly do-able , but with further considerations.....
depends on other factors.........Your skill level and confidence, Runway width and surface, steady wind or gusting, obstructions in vicinity ( potential for curl-over , downdraughts )

[micromalc]

across the r/way

watch out for gusts and if you have the luxury of a long wide runway, try landing at a slight diagonal to reduce the wind angle

[llanfairpg]

watch out for gusts and if you have the luxury of a long wide runway, try landing at a slight diagonal to reduce the wind angle

A bad practice and not needed, this is a 9 knot crosswind in the sock which will probaly equate to about 5-6 kts around touchdown.

Yes, except for a student doing circuit training

Why? In the year I spent instructing at Sumburgh, Shetland the minimum crosswind I sent students first solo in was 15kts(total xwind)!

Not only did they learn crosswind landings they all got to appreciate why trees don't grow on Shetland.

[SkyToddler]

the minimum crosswind I sent students first solo in was 15kts(total xwind)!

My instructor said that the max xwind speed for a safe landing in a 152 was 12.5 kts

[DFC]

14 knot wind from 270 from a runway 23 in a 152?

suitable

Thanks

You need to ask the pilot in command. They are the only one who can answer that question.

For the max demonstrated or club requirements etc then refer to the appropriate manual.

Don't let ATC or the Met Forecaster or the Passenger or people who you do not know and who do not know you become pilot in command of your aircraft.

If there is doubt then make it so that there is no doubt.

Regards,

DFC

[dublinpilot]

Why? In the year I spent instructing at Sumburgh, Shetland the minimum crosswind I sent students first solo in was 15kts(total xwind)!

Not only did they learn crosswind landings they all got to appreciate why trees don't grow on Shetland.

Well, my thinking is that someone trying to learn to land, will do so much quicker if they don't have to do crosswinds too. Once they learn to land, you can add the cross wind correction in then much easier.

I'm also figuring that when a student is sent solo to practice their landings that most instructors would want the conditions to be fairly benine.

If 15kts crosswind is normal conditions in Sumburgh then I suppose they might as well let cross wind landing at the same time as normal landings.

dp

[llanfairpg]

Not anymore at Sumburgh, they were building a new westerley runway when I was there in 1974 which solved the crosswind problems and approach problems because there was no final aproach on the old northerly runway(continuos curve off downwind). Quite challenging for instructors and students!!!

You may or may not remember that sadly just after the new runway opened a Dan Air (HS748)went off the end into the bay killing the flight deck and many passengers. (Control lock engaged)

You need to ask the pilot in command. They are the only one who can answer that question.

The thread starter's age is 15

[DFC]

The thread starter's age is 15

I believe the term is primacy. Teach them the correct way of thinking from the start rather than trying to change it down the road.

In this case - don't try and pass the buck when it comes to decisions.

For example far too many students and qualified pilots would like weather forecasters to say simply "not suitable for VFR" or "suitable for VFR" so that when it all goes wrong they can turn round and say "but the forecaster said it was OK for VFR".

The pilot in command is the only person who can make the decision and they must shoulder all the responsibility for that decision.

That is not to say that they can not obtain information from other sourses. However, the question was not I believe a request for information.

Remember that group decisions are less risk adverse.....and this could be a classic case of lots of people saying that "hey I can do it in 30 knots" which can be dangerous for those (15 year olds) who are less experienced and need to clearly understand from the start what being pilot in command is all about.

Regards,

DFC

[llanfairpg]

14 knot wind from 270 from a runway 23 in a 152?

suitable

The question

I believe the term is primacy. Teach them the correct way of thinking from the start rather than trying to change it down the road.

In this case - don't try and pass the buck when it comes to decisions.

From DFC

I would say that asking the commander is passing the buck and not the correct way of thinking from the start.

The correct way for Matthew to progress is to start by finding out the maximum crosswind limit for the aircraft, understand the difference between demonstrated and limiting. Find out if the club/school has overiding limits. Learn how to work out cross wind limits by rule of thumb and exactly.

Asking the commander may in principal sound helpful but only if he or she is familiar with the above. I find that some commanders have difficuty working out the time let alone the crosswind limit.

[DX Wombat]

My instructor said that the max xwind speed for a safe landing in a 152 was 12.5 kts

Hmmm, first of all your FI is wrong. The safe maximum crosswind speed for a 152 when landing is the speed at which the pilot is able to make a safe landing. Some people will not feel happy with say 6kts, others will be perfectly happy with 12kts. There is also NO crosswind limit for a 152. There is, however, a DEMONSTRATED CROSSWIND COMPONENT, which Cessna stresses is NOT a limit, and this is 12 kts. Ask your FI to let you read the aircraft's POH where you will be able to read this for yourself. Your FTO may have its own limits which it requires you to adhere to. Read what everyone else has written, there is a lot of good advice in there. I was very fortunate in my FI who taught me how to do crosswind landings from the outset. For those who may be inclined to think I mean the full 12kts across the runway, or that I was pushed beyond my limits, I don't. I mean that if there was a crosswind when it came to landing then we didn't ask for a runway change, I was guided through it with as much or as little help from the FI as necessary to make a good, safe landing.

[llanfairpg]

My instructor said that the max xwind speed for a safe landing in a 152 was 12.5 kts

Tell you instructor not to go to Shetland


Matter of interest DX I have landed a C150 at our favourite airfield with a 35kt crosswind and just running out of rudder. I think the 12.5kts may be for nervous pilots in the tailwhheel conversion.

(sorry about Eve, only joking)

[DX Wombat]

Hehehe LL. I bet that landing was slightly interesting especially if the usual patches of windshear were lurking around the threshold. I'm told that I did one similar with my FI during a special session of "out of DCC limits" landings but I think there is some exaggeration there. The lesson was done, I hasten to add, so that should I be presented with a situation where it became essential to land in similar winds, it wouldn't be something I hadn't done before and I would therefore, hopefully, be a little better able to cope with it and come out in one piece.
Perhaps the lad's FI is teaching at an airfield where they have more runways than they know what to with.
I've tried to send you a PM but your inbox is full. I've saved the message to send when you have some space and I have access to a computer.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

My instructor said that the max xwind speed for a safe landing in a 152 was 12.5 kts

I've done 14kts plus gusts in a 152.

With an instructor.

The first and third landings were OK ...

... but the second one frightened the instructor.

(That's why I prefer floatplanes. No crosswinds - just land into wind.)

[llanfairpg]

Hehehe LL. I bet that landing was slightly interesting especially if the usual patches of windshear were lurking around the threshold.

I dont recall it being that turbulent I remember it was on 09 and I just did not have enough rudder to get it completely straight but probably better techniique may have helped!

The roughest day (and ever in flying) I have ever had there was with about 12 knots in the sock. Took off on 27 and I thought I was going to loose control. My lasting memory is of the ignition key fob going from full down to full up and banging on the facsia continuosly. The tug and glider took off behind me and the tow rope snapped. The CFI (our friend) came straight back form an illegal photographic session and said it was the worst turbulence he had ever experienced and boy did that man have some experience!
No one could say that day what caused it with only about 12 kts in the sock but I later worked out that it must have been rotor from standing wave. I dont know how I got round the circuit that day and it still remains my most frigtening moment and most violent turbulent episode and I have been through a few thunderstorms and landed in 79kts at LHR. Good Luck !

[sternone]

Don't worry, i did (with instructor) 17kts measured on the ground almost full cros (21 on runway 29) and i survived in the 152, good cross controls for sideslip and landing on the left wheel is the key and keep the ailerons into the wind ALSO AFTER LANDING!!!

The strange thing is that with heavy crosswinds i made some of my softest landings, how is this possible ?

[IO540]

The strange thing is that with heavy crosswinds i made some of my softest landings, how is this possible ?

Probably because you concentrated on it.

It's easy to let one's brain slip, and do a lousy landing.

[Put1992]

Hello again guys. Thanks for the response from everyone.

It was more of a question of "what is the crosswind limit for a Cessna 152, and will (whatever i put) be suitable".

Perhaps i should have phrased it better. Lesson learnt, Be more specific!

And i agree with forecasts being a bit too general. The only real way is to, as it's been said, call up the club beforehand and ask someone with experience.

Matthew