Sub-Leasing Aircraft

[nice_one_shaggy]

I was wondering whether any of you learned folk can help me out with this small issue.

If I was to lease a couple of light aircraft from an aircraft owner can I then form a flying group around them and sub-lease them to other qualified pilots for a very small profit, sufficient to cover my costs and the time I spend adminstering such a group.

The aircraft are insured by the owner for any qualified pilot to fly, with an insurance excess of £ x GBP, payable by the PIC in the event of any damage, and all maintenance would be undertaken by the owner.

What CofA and maintenance schedule would the aircraft need to have in force?

Who would be legally responsible for the aircraft and the conduct of flights? Would it be the owner, the PIC of any flight or would I have liability in respect to the aircraft, pilots and flights? Would it be my responsibility to ensure the pilots have valid licences, ratings, medicals and are current or is this always the responsibility of the PIC.

Surely such an activity would not need an Operator's Certificate. Is this activity covered under any regulations anywhere?

Thanks.

NOS

[P.Pilcher]

Well, in days of yore, the infamous late Ron Webster of Coventry used to do just this as many old hands may remember. In those days, all you needed was appropriate insurance and the aircraft had to hold a public transport C of A. Regrettably I expect that the paper pushers have now made it far more difficult!

P.P.

[IO540]

If G-reg they need to be on a Transport CofA

[julian_storey]

I was wondering whether any of you learned folk can help me out with this small issue.

If I was to lease a couple of light aircraft from an aircraft owner can I then form a flying group around them and sub-lease them to other qualified pilots for a very small profit, sufficient to cover my costs and the time I spend adminstering such a group.

You can sub lease them out for a small profit, a large profit or any kind of profit that the market will support.

What you CAN'T do is lease the aircraft WITH a pilot - even a commercial one. If you did that, you would effectively be offering a charter for which you would need an Air Operators Certificate (AOC).

The aircraft are insured by the owner for any qualified pilot to fly, with an insurance excess of £ x GBP, payable by the PIC in the event of any damage, and all maintenance would be undertaken by the owner.

In which case you (or your flying group if it was constituted as a limited company) would need to have some kind of contractual arrangement with group members whereby they agreed to pay your excess in the event of an incident.

Depending on the size of the excess, this could best be dealt with by asking that members pay a deposit (equivalent to the size of the excess) refundable if they leave the group.

What CofA and maintenance schedule would the aircraft need to have in force?

Like most people, I am utterly confused by the new EASA system - but it would essentially need the EASA equivalent of a public transport C of A because the aircraft is being hired out.

Who would be legally responsible for the aircraft and the conduct of flights? Would it be the owner, the PIC of any flight or would I have liability in respect to the aircraft, pilots and flights? Would it be my responsibility to ensure the pilots have valid licences, ratings, medicals and are current or is this always the responsibility of the PIC.

The PIC is always responsible for the conduct of any flight. If a pilot doesn't have all the right paperwork it is initially his problem not yours.

If however there was an incident, the insurance company is likely to be less than willing to pay out if something is missing or out of date in which case I should imagine that the aircraft owner might have a crack at you (as the person with whom he / she has a contractual relationship) in an attempt to recover any losses.

Surely such an activity would not need an Operator's Certificate. Is this activity covered under any regulations anywhere?

If you are simply renting out aeroplanes to 'self flying' pilots you don't need an AOC and you don't need to be registered with the CAA as a flight training organisation.

The only snag I can think of is that nobody will lease you an aeroplane (especially a popular training type) without some kind of minimum hours guarantee. If you can't get enough group members to fly enough hours - you could be left holding quite a heavy financial baby.

Hope it works out for you

[nice_one_shaggy]

Thanks for the info folks,

I have done some other info digging and it seems that, as there is money changing hands and the aircraft are not owned by myself, the CAA would view this as a business transaction.

Therefore, I would have liability for ensuring that the aircraft are maintained in accordance with Public Transport requirements, that sufficient insurance cover is provided, that all required documents are available in the aircraft for all appropriate flights and that all pilots have the correct licences, qualifications, medicals and currency, etc, etc.

Not that this is an onerous task. It just seems a trifle excessive that I should be liable for ensuring a pilot's qualifications and currency.

Saying that, a car hire dealer has to do it so why shouldn't I, although maybe that is a poor comparison.

NOS

[IO540]

It just seems a trifle excessive that I should be liable for ensuring a pilot's qualifications and currency.

You are not. Who told you that?

There is a completely separate scenario where you might be though. If you are a Director of a company renting out planes, then it could be argued that you have a duty to make sure that proper insurance is obtained, and this means verifying the bona fides of all renters - including perhaps check flights. This is what my insurance broker told me when i used to rent out my plane.

And you cannot, apparently, take out insurance to cover a breach of your Director's duties.

The reason for this is to avoid personal liability (as a Director) if somebody under you fouls up and kills somebody.

[julian_storey]

Therefore, I would have liability for ensuring that the aircraft are maintained in accordance with Public Transport requirements, that sufficient insurance cover is provided, that all required documents are available in the aircraft for all appropriate flights and that all pilots have the correct licences, qualifications, medicals and currency, etc, etc.

IO540 is right. I that someone may have misinformed you here.

The pilot in command of an aircraft is responsible for ensuring that he / she has all the right documents (including those which confirm that the aircraft is airworthy) available in the aircraft before they go flying. They are also responsible for ensuring that their medicals are in date and that they are current etc.

As mentioned earlier though, if someone with say an out of date medical bends the aeroplane the insurance company are likely to attempt to wriggle out of paying up. This scenario could leave you with a big bill so it would make absolute sense to ensure that everyones docs are as they should be.