Object in fuel tank?
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Object in fuel tank?
Hi there.
Last evening i was flying around in my C-152. On my way back I stopped to drop off a passenger and to check the fuel. When i took the lid of the tank I noticed that the metal chain that connects the lid to the wing (you know what i'm talking about?) was missing. I am pretty sure that it was connected when I left earlier that day because I filled her up then, so the chain must be in the tank. So my questions are:
-can i still fly the plane with the chain in (given that i will have it removed within a few weeks) or is the airplane grounded?
-how can i remove it? magnet? any ideas?
All help/advice appreciated
Last evening i was flying around in my C-152. On my way back I stopped to drop off a passenger and to check the fuel. When i took the lid of the tank I noticed that the metal chain that connects the lid to the wing (you know what i'm talking about?) was missing. I am pretty sure that it was connected when I left earlier that day because I filled her up then, so the chain must be in the tank. So my questions are:
-can i still fly the plane with the chain in (given that i will have it removed within a few weeks) or is the airplane grounded?
-how can i remove it? magnet? any ideas?
All help/advice appreciated
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Legally...I've no idea.
Personally, there is no way that I would fly it, with fuel being fed from that tank. I've no idea how big the gap is for fuel to feed the engine, and hence no idea if
a) it's possible for the chain to block the gap, or
b) worse still, for the chain to pass into the pipe, and get stuck further into the system, and in effect cut off fuel from either tank.
I suspect you need to speak to your engineer before flying again.
All just my opinion....
dp
Personally, there is no way that I would fly it, with fuel being fed from that tank. I've no idea how big the gap is for fuel to feed the engine, and hence no idea if
a) it's possible for the chain to block the gap, or
b) worse still, for the chain to pass into the pipe, and get stuck further into the system, and in effect cut off fuel from either tank.
I suspect you need to speak to your engineer before flying again.
All just my opinion....
dp
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well, i took the chance and flew back knowing that the chain was in the tank (the field was 1:30hr drive vs. 35 min flight from my base and no taxi, bus available) I was also concerned that the chain could block the fuel lines but since the fuel comes from both left and right fuel tank so I thougt if the left one gets clogged the engine can still be fed from the right one.
And yes, i have sent the engineer an e-mail but i don't kow how long until he will reply or address the problem so i wanted to get a second opinion...
*edited for spelling*
And yes, i have sent the engineer an e-mail but i don't kow how long until he will reply or address the problem so i wanted to get a second opinion...
*edited for spelling*
A colleague a few years ago flying a Gazelle helicopter had an engine failure (almost unheard of in Gazelle). He got it safely to the ground and the engineers came out to have a look.
Started up, ran, all systems green.
Engineers looked everywhere for about an hour, then gave him a single flight auth for the 20 minutes back to base.
10 minutes later, another engine failure, another successful forced landing (pretty impressive). He was not asked to fly it the last 10 minutes, and it went by truck!
Problem: a ball of used duct tape sloshing about in the fuel tank that intermittently blocked the fuel supply in flight, but fell out and clear whilst ground-running!
One to have in the back of your mind!
Sam.
Started up, ran, all systems green.
Engineers looked everywhere for about an hour, then gave him a single flight auth for the 20 minutes back to base.
10 minutes later, another engine failure, another successful forced landing (pretty impressive). He was not asked to fly it the last 10 minutes, and it went by truck!
Problem: a ball of used duct tape sloshing about in the fuel tank that intermittently blocked the fuel supply in flight, but fell out and clear whilst ground-running!
One to have in the back of your mind!
Sam.
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Go fishing
Interesting dilemma . . .
The chain is not magnetic (or at least the one on my 150 isn't), and the fuel pickup is mounted low on the inboard SIDE of the tank, a short distance above the bottom of the tank, hence unusable fuel.
152s are slightly different, but unusable fuel is about the same.
To be safe, drain both tanks (remember you have a crossover tube), and go looking with a mirror and a flashlight. Use a "claw" tool to retrieve the chain. If you don't have one, you might use a straightened out clothes hangar, or any other long, stiff wire with a hook at the end.
Be careful not to drop anything into the tank, and remember that the unusable fuel is still sloshing around in there, so no smoking and no sparks! You can get some but not all of the remaining fuel out by removing the quick drains and lifting or depressing the wingtips.
Ground the airplane and the gas cans before draining fuel - this procedure is a very good source of static electricity, and is considerably more risky than fueling the aircraft in the first place. If you keep the fuel clean, when you find and retrieve the chain, you can put the fuel back in and save some money.
While it is doubtful the chain could clog the fuel pickup or fuel line, why take a chance?
Best Regards,
Echo Mike
The chain is not magnetic (or at least the one on my 150 isn't), and the fuel pickup is mounted low on the inboard SIDE of the tank, a short distance above the bottom of the tank, hence unusable fuel.
152s are slightly different, but unusable fuel is about the same.
To be safe, drain both tanks (remember you have a crossover tube), and go looking with a mirror and a flashlight. Use a "claw" tool to retrieve the chain. If you don't have one, you might use a straightened out clothes hangar, or any other long, stiff wire with a hook at the end.
Be careful not to drop anything into the tank, and remember that the unusable fuel is still sloshing around in there, so no smoking and no sparks! You can get some but not all of the remaining fuel out by removing the quick drains and lifting or depressing the wingtips.
Ground the airplane and the gas cans before draining fuel - this procedure is a very good source of static electricity, and is considerably more risky than fueling the aircraft in the first place. If you keep the fuel clean, when you find and retrieve the chain, you can put the fuel back in and save some money.
While it is doubtful the chain could clog the fuel pickup or fuel line, why take a chance?
Best Regards,
Echo Mike
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The is a "finger strainer" at the outlet from the fual tank into the fuel line which is entirely capable of exculing the chain. Were the chain actually block a portion of the fuel line opening, enough fuel would still get through that you would not notice a problem. It would not be possible for the chain to get anywhere harmful into the fuel system, it would not fit down the fuel line.
This does warrant rectification by a suitably training maintainer - it is definately not do it yourself work.
If I needed to fly a Cessna in this condition, I would not hesitate to do so. I am not your regulator though. Nice going considering that there may be a problem, and asking advice. Many pilots would not have bothered. You have demonstrated the right attitude toward safe flying!
This is the design standard to which the 152 was built:
3.448 Fuel tank outlet
The fuel tank outlet shall be provided with a screen of from 8 to 16 meshes per inch. If a finger strainer is used, the length of the strainer shall not be less than 4 times the outlet diameter. The diameter of the strainer shall not be less than the diameter of the fuel tank outlet. Finger strainers shall be accessible for inspection and cleaning.
Cheers, Pilot DAR
This does warrant rectification by a suitably training maintainer - it is definately not do it yourself work.
If I needed to fly a Cessna in this condition, I would not hesitate to do so. I am not your regulator though. Nice going considering that there may be a problem, and asking advice. Many pilots would not have bothered. You have demonstrated the right attitude toward safe flying!
This is the design standard to which the 152 was built:
3.448 Fuel tank outlet
The fuel tank outlet shall be provided with a screen of from 8 to 16 meshes per inch. If a finger strainer is used, the length of the strainer shall not be less than 4 times the outlet diameter. The diameter of the strainer shall not be less than the diameter of the fuel tank outlet. Finger strainers shall be accessible for inspection and cleaning.
Cheers, Pilot DAR
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Fuel Tank FOD
Many strange things have been found in aircraft fuel tanks.
I once had the resposibility of launching brand new shiny ones for the first time. Swarf and lost tools were a repeating hazard causing an ultra cautious approach.
Some things which managed to lodge in tanks were the plastic sealing caps which close off new fuel and air tubing. But the 'daddy' of them all was a vucum cleaner which had been used in a tank for cleaning up after a major inspection just before a shift change. Workers downed tools in situ and perhaps the next shift was expected to continue the clean up. Instead the tank was sealed. The vacuum cleaner was relocated following about 1500 flight hours.
Fuel tank sumps will normally collect items that don't float and hopefully the input filters to booster pumps will stop most small stuff which might stop a pump.
Take care. You or you refueller should have noticed that the chain was about to part company from either the tank cap or at the other end.
Many strange things have been found in aircraft fuel tanks.
I once had the resposibility of launching brand new shiny ones for the first time. Swarf and lost tools were a repeating hazard causing an ultra cautious approach.
Some things which managed to lodge in tanks were the plastic sealing caps which close off new fuel and air tubing. But the 'daddy' of them all was a vucum cleaner which had been used in a tank for cleaning up after a major inspection just before a shift change. Workers downed tools in situ and perhaps the next shift was expected to continue the clean up. Instead the tank was sealed. The vacuum cleaner was relocated following about 1500 flight hours.
Fuel tank sumps will normally collect items that don't float and hopefully the input filters to booster pumps will stop most small stuff which might stop a pump.
Take care. You or you refueller should have noticed that the chain was about to part company from either the tank cap or at the other end.
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No problem
I compleatly agree with DAR the chain is not a problem and the aircraft can me flown untill you can get a maintenace company to have a look in the tank for you.
I would be prepared to lay a large bet that when the maintenance guys get to look in the tank they find at lease one of the plastic fuel level sticks in each tank!
After a guy admitted to droping one of these sticks in the tank of one of my aircraft a fleet check found five sticks and one fuel water sample tool across the three aircaft.
I would be prepared to lay a large bet that when the maintenance guys get to look in the tank they find at lease one of the plastic fuel level sticks in each tank!
After a guy admitted to droping one of these sticks in the tank of one of my aircraft a fleet check found five sticks and one fuel water sample tool across the three aircaft.
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Thans for your replies folks, I haven't heard drom my mechanic yet, but i supspect that he will remove it at the next 50 hrs check (21 hrs left) I have seen dipsticks, drainers and various foreign objects removed from a fuel tank without causing any harm to the plane, so I guess I'll be fine 
thanks again.
thanks again.
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Spark hazard
Hi BIRK
However, for anybody else thinking of doing it themselves perhaps on a microlight or permit aeroplane, make sure you use a torch with a switch that is spark-proof.
Broomstick.
Quote: and go looking with a mirror and a flashlight.
From your post, I assume your mechanic will be doing this for you.However, for anybody else thinking of doing it themselves perhaps on a microlight or permit aeroplane, make sure you use a torch with a switch that is spark-proof.
Broomstick.
Last edited by BroomstickPilot; 13th Jan 2008 at 10:16. Reason: missed point
Don't crash in the meantime as the insurance company would probably declare your aircraft to have been unairworthy at the time you took off and as such your C of A would be invalid.
Technically they would be correct.
You have a loose article in your tank which you are aware off.
It has the potential however unlikely to block the feed from the tank.
It might decide to wrap itself round the contents sender giving a false fuel reading, again highly unlikely.
For all you know there could already be something partially blocking the tank outlet and the chain could be enough to block it completely, again unlikely.
The aircraft is not airworthy and you fly it at your risk, not your insurance companies.
I would probably have made the same decision you did, to fly it back to base, but I would not continue to fly in that condition. Its tempting fate.
Technically they would be correct.
You have a loose article in your tank which you are aware off.
It has the potential however unlikely to block the feed from the tank.
It might decide to wrap itself round the contents sender giving a false fuel reading, again highly unlikely.
For all you know there could already be something partially blocking the tank outlet and the chain could be enough to block it completely, again unlikely.
The aircraft is not airworthy and you fly it at your risk, not your insurance companies.
I would probably have made the same decision you did, to fly it back to base, but I would not continue to fly in that condition. Its tempting fate.
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After a guy admitted to droping one of these sticks in the tank of one of my aircraft a fleet check found five sticks and one fuel water sample tool across the three aircaft.
Please don't tell me which aircraft it was, so I don't worry about whether I flew it in that condition!
Tim
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when the maintenance guys get to look in the tank they find at lease one of the plastic fuel level sticks in each tank!
TheOddOne
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Solution found!
Talked to my mechanic, he said that a screen blocks the chain from entering the fuel lines and that the intake is elevated from the bottom of the tank (hence the unusable fuel) so the chain will most likely sit at the bottom. In a nutshell: It's ok to go flying but we'll take a look this week and he's confident that we'll be able to fish it out.
However I'm not quite satisfied flying with a chain in my tank, so no flying until we get it out, wich is quite annoying because the engine has just returned from a MAJOR ($$$$$) overhaul in the states and she is a charm to fly
However I'm not quite satisfied flying with a chain in my tank, so no flying until we get it out, wich is quite annoying because the engine has just returned from a MAJOR ($$$$$) overhaul in the states and she is a charm to fly
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Your attitude, I think, is the right one. You're aware of a fault with an essential part - the fuel system - of your aircraft, and therefore you should avoid flying until that fault is rectified. Of course, the loose chain is very unlikely to cause a problem in flight, but who knows what else might go wrong: What would happen, for example, if the fuel filter became damaged? What if it already is? Maybe you'll become aware of it in a catastrophic way.
Many faults on their own can seem harmless, and probably are. But combined with another equally unlikely problem, it could just become very serious. Don't take chances with maintenance - each could be your last.
Many faults on their own can seem harmless, and probably are. But combined with another equally unlikely problem, it could just become very serious. Don't take chances with maintenance - each could be your last.
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One presumes that you've checked to see that the chain isn't still attached at the other end to somewhere accessible? It obviously would have been attached at both ends to start with, so seems unlikely that it would simultaneuosly detach from both ends.
Tangentially:
I once fitted a new fuel tank sender to a friends VW camper, which entails removing the engine/gearbox, and then the fuel tank.
Once the job was completed he went off on his European tour, but complained that the engine would stop after around 2 hours driving, but after being left for 10 minutes it would start and do another two hours.
Any guesses as to what the cause was?
Tangentially:
I once fitted a new fuel tank sender to a friends VW camper, which entails removing the engine/gearbox, and then the fuel tank.
Once the job was completed he went off on his European tour, but complained that the engine would stop after around 2 hours driving, but after being left for 10 minutes it would start and do another two hours.
Any guesses as to what the cause was?
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I once fitted a new fuel tank sender to a friends VW camper, which entails removing the engine/gearbox, and then the fuel tank.
Once the job was completed he went off on his European tour, but complained that the engine would stop after around 2 hours driving, but after being left for 10 minutes it would start and do another two hours.
Any guesses as to what the cause?
.... carb icing?
Once the job was completed he went off on his European tour, but complained that the engine would stop after around 2 hours driving, but after being left for 10 minutes it would start and do another two hours.
Any guesses as to what the cause?
.... carb icing?
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Stickandrudderman
Probably a blocked/inopperative venting system. Air may not be able to enter the tank to replace the fuel being used.
There was once a DC4 at Perth, Oz, which had been topped up with cold fuel. Standing in the sun fuel began to vent from an integral wing tank as the fuel expanded. Someone plugged the vent. Soon after take off the wing skin buckled inwards as the tank booster pump worked hard to keep up a flow. Could have been catastrophic. Murphy just loves to stay in the limelight!
Probably a blocked/inopperative venting system. Air may not be able to enter the tank to replace the fuel being used.
There was once a DC4 at Perth, Oz, which had been topped up with cold fuel. Standing in the sun fuel began to vent from an integral wing tank as the fuel expanded. Someone plugged the vent. Soon after take off the wing skin buckled inwards as the tank booster pump worked hard to keep up a flow. Could have been catastrophic. Murphy just loves to stay in the limelight!