End of VFR
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Northern Ireland.
End of VFR
Can anyone out there please settle an argument which has arrisen at our flying club. Has the end of VFR time been recently changed from 30 minutes after official sunset to official sunset time? Many thanks. noelwj
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: SoCal
OK, I'll bite at no 82 (or whatever 
). The simple answer is - it depends which country you are in. AFAIK the variations go all the way from SR/SS to SR/SS +/- 30 (I think some even go to 45, but not sure here) mins.
). The simple answer is - it depends which country you are in. AFAIK the variations go all the way from SR/SS to SR/SS +/- 30 (I think some even go to 45, but not sure here) mins.
Fly Conventional Gear
Joined: May 2007
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From: Winchester
Unless it has happened since 15th December 2007 (the day I was told by an instructor that sunset+30mins= start of night) then no, it has not changed.
BTW the thread title had me slightly worried for a second...although to be honest I wouldn't be suprised if EASA had mandated all should pilots should hold IRs
.
BTW the thread title had me slightly worried for a second...although to be honest I wouldn't be suprised if EASA had mandated all should pilots should hold IRs
.
Joined: May 2001
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From: 75N 16E
In the US it is based upon the end of civil twilight. Which just happens to be when the suns disc is a certain number of arc seconds below the horizon....
But to answer your question, yep 30 mins is the UK.
But to answer your question, yep 30 mins is the UK.
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: UK
official night is 30 mins after the published sunset time for that airfield.
The vast majority of sunset and sunrise times are published in the UK Air Pilot, Pooleys, Lockyears and also available on - line, if you can't find one for your airfield there'll always be one in the above that's near enough.
The vast majority of sunset and sunrise times are published in the UK Air Pilot, Pooleys, Lockyears and also available on - line, if you can't find one for your airfield there'll always be one in the above that's near enough.
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
I've not heard of a change under CAA rules.
But from vague memory (and without looking it up) the FAA situation has a little gotcha - your 3 takeoffs and landings have to be between ss+1hr and sr-1hr in order to count for passenger carriage in the period ss+30mins to sr-30mins. So the FAA tries to stop pilots maintaining their night currency by doing a few quick circuits before it is properly dark. Hope I got that right.
But from vague memory (and without looking it up) the FAA situation has a little gotcha - your 3 takeoffs and landings have to be between ss+1hr and sr-1hr in order to count for passenger carriage in the period ss+30mins to sr-30mins. So the FAA tries to stop pilots maintaining their night currency by doing a few quick circuits before it is properly dark. Hope I got that right.
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Northampton UK
A quick look on Google located this article.
Appears that on 12th December 2007 the Queen ordered that:
RC
Appears that on 12th December 2007 the Queen ordered that:
“Day” means the time from half an hour before sunrise until half an hour after sunset (both times exclusive), sunset and sunrise being determined at surface level;
Guest
Posts: n/a
What's so difficult about looking it here.
The answer, at least for NI and the rest of the UK, is ‘Night’ means the time from half an hour after sunset until half an hour before sunrise (both times inclusive), sunset and sunrise being determined at surface level.
Can't see any reason for an argument.
My, I'm feeling grumpy tonight - that's two grumpy posts out of two.
The answer, at least for NI and the rest of the UK, is ‘Night’ means the time from half an hour after sunset until half an hour before sunrise (both times inclusive), sunset and sunrise being determined at surface level.
Can't see any reason for an argument.
My, I'm feeling grumpy tonight - that's two grumpy posts out of two.
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Dublin
Noelwj,
Perhaps the confusion comes from your location. Your location is given as Northern Ireland.
UK rules according to the posters above is ss+30min.
However I am sure that if you are based in NI, that you often fly into the Republic, and that you come across many pilots based in the Republic. The night rules in the Republic are different.
In the Republic of Ireland, from 1 April to 30 Sept, night starts at ss+30 minutes. From 1 Oct to 31 March, night starts from sunset.
Perhaps that helps clear up the confusion?
dp
Perhaps the confusion comes from your location. Your location is given as Northern Ireland.
UK rules according to the posters above is ss+30min.
However I am sure that if you are based in NI, that you often fly into the Republic, and that you come across many pilots based in the Republic. The night rules in the Republic are different.
In the Republic of Ireland, from 1 April to 30 Sept, night starts at ss+30 minutes. From 1 Oct to 31 March, night starts from sunset.
Perhaps that helps clear up the confusion?
dp
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Dublin
Just to be pedantic, you can fly VFR at night.
In the UK you can fly IFR at night in VMC without an IR. In Ireland, you can only fly at night under IFR, which they require you to have an IR for.
dp
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Fareham
Er.... Actually I think you will find no VFR at night in the UK. You must fly IFR (R for 'Rules') in VMC (C for 'Conditions') at night. No need for an IR (Instrument rating), you just have to follow the rules...
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Just to be pedantic, you can fly VFR at night.
However, under the UK ANO, IFR are deemed to be complied with (at or below 3000ft) if an aircraft remains clear of cloud and in sight of the surface.
In effect, the rules allow us to fly "special VFR" at night, although that general term isn't used in the regulations.
(I'll give it no more than a couple of hours before DFC gets involved in this one, it's his favourite bar argument).
Guest
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In effect, the rules allow us to fly "special VFR" at night, although that general term isn't used in the regulations.
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Yes, agreed you don't ask for a clearance in Class G (or need to, there's no-one to ask) but the "let out" clause which allows us to make a "visual contact flight" under IFR in Class G is effectively under exactly the same terms as an SVFR clearance for the other, controlled types of airspace.
Read the words in the ANO and the second paragraph of my previous.
I used the parentheses around my use of the phrase "special VFR" deliberately because it isn't really SVFR.
P.s. Very quick DFC, only twenty nine minutes
Read the words in the ANO and the second paragraph of my previous.
I used the parentheses around my use of the phrase "special VFR" deliberately because it isn't really SVFR.
P.s. Very quick DFC, only twenty nine minutes