28 day check - logged as P1 or PUT?
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homeguard
I'm sorry, but there's only ONE commander per flight and only ONE person can book P1.
You're going to have to quote chapter & verse to persuade me otherwise.
Cheers,
TheOddOne
If it was purely a club required check flight and you remained in control throughout the flight then you LOG P1. The instructor carrying out their duty as a Flight Instructor observing you may also logs P1.
You're going to have to quote chapter & verse to persuade me otherwise.
Cheers,
TheOddOne
Although this topic has been raised on many on occasion - and personally I think that 28 day currency is unreasonable (we use 42), my opinion is:
1. The FI will invariably be the Commander and will log PIC.
2. The other pilot will log Pu/t.
Also, I would expect the pilot requiring the check to be charged at the 'dual rate'. Don't like it? Then maintain your currency!
If there was any real commonsense in the JAA, such flights would be PICU/S for the pilot requiring the check and PIC for the FI. But sadly there isn't......
1. The FI will invariably be the Commander and will log PIC.
2. The other pilot will log Pu/t.
Also, I would expect the pilot requiring the check to be charged at the 'dual rate'. Don't like it? Then maintain your currency!
If there was any real commonsense in the JAA, such flights would be PICU/S for the pilot requiring the check and PIC for the FI. But sadly there isn't......
Hovering AND talking
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28 days is very common with helicopters and the original poster is a helicopter pilot wishing to gain a CPL. P1/Put hours is important for that reason.
My instructor tells me to log P1. Only once did he say I was Put but that was after a flying break of several months.
Cheers
Whirls
PS - I think I've doubled the weight of my logbook in Tippex
My instructor tells me to log P1. Only once did he say I was Put but that was after a flying break of several months.
Cheers
Whirls
PS - I think I've doubled the weight of my logbook in Tippex
Whirlygig, yes indeed, 28 days seems entirely reasonable for the skill set needed to maintain acceptable flying skill on helicopters.
Avoid imitations
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Some of us need a check flight after a long lunch.... 
Fly Conventional Gear
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I'm sorry, but there's only ONE commander per flight and only ONE person can book P1.
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This one always splits down the middle, been brought up several times before (Hence the "Incoming" Al 
).
FTR, I am in the unless you are being instructed the FI is just a passenger camp.
J.
).FTR, I am in the unless you are being instructed the FI is just a passenger camp.
J.
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On two occasions, I've been told to log it as P1/S. The FI checking me was also an examiner.
With other FIs, I've logged it as Pu/t.
I'm not hour building, so don't really care either way.
With other FIs, I've logged it as Pu/t.
I'm not hour building, so don't really care either way.
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Logger Heads
Nope!
See Lasors P56. Pilot-in-Command Para. 1(c).
You may, in a single pilot aeroplane, log P1(s) only when the flight is a licensing test and the examiner is acting as such.
Club check rides are not a licensing requirement. It is an occasion when the hirer is protecting their own interest. Most clubs will nominate an instructor to supervise a check ride. You are, are you not, checking that the pilot has current satisfactory skill which includes their PIC skills.
The PPL holder may if no intervention is required log the flight P1 but so may the instructor in accordance with the above section from LASORS 2007
See Lasors P56. Pilot-in-Command Para. 1(c).
You may, in a single pilot aeroplane, log P1(s) only when the flight is a licensing test and the examiner is acting as such.
Club check rides are not a licensing requirement. It is an occasion when the hirer is protecting their own interest. Most clubs will nominate an instructor to supervise a check ride. You are, are you not, checking that the pilot has current satisfactory skill which includes their PIC skills.
The PPL holder may if no intervention is required log the flight P1 but so may the instructor in accordance with the above section from LASORS 2007
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My instructor tells me to log P1. Only once did he say I was Put but that was after a flying break of several months.
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Personally I think that instructor time, when not manipulating controls, going round and round the pattern, should get a column of its own and not go in to P1. 
Tin hat and body armour, on....
But really the concept of hours is quite abstract as the experience gained in a flying hour is something quite different dpending on the circumstances.
Tin hat and body armour, on....
But really the concept of hours is quite abstract as the experience gained in a flying hour is something quite different dpending on the circumstances.
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Absolutely. So if Whirls would log P1, then the FI would be a passenger along for the ride. But Whirls was out of currency, so would not legally be allowed to take passengers.
Hence the FI logging P1, and Whirls P/UT. Problems solved.
Hence the FI logging P1, and Whirls P/UT. Problems solved.
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An instructor is not a passenger in the circumstances given!
There is an anomally here.
If I checked someone out for an hour or so and then said at the end of the flight. "I am sorry but you handling of the aircraft was not good enough to me to allow you to fly the aircraft solo How would they then log that flight, P1 or Pu/t?
bose-x said:
You say it's wrong and the Head of Licensing at the CAA says it's right - guess who I'm going to believe.
wow that came from the outfield and is completely wrong........
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The simplist advice I can give you is to agree who is in command before the flight. If you can't agree that, then don't go flying together.
Looking at your log book a year later, and wondering were you actually the commander of a flight that you though you weren't commander of at the time, is a bit silly really.
Looking at your log book a year later, and wondering were you actually the commander of a flight that you though you weren't commander of at the time, is a bit silly really.
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Except where his or her presence is not required legally by the ANO.
If I checked someone out for an hour or so and then said at the end of the flight. "I am sorry but you handling of the aircraft was not good enough to me to allow you to fly the aircraft solo How would they then log that flight, P1 or Pu/t?
With regards to club checks, I think the situation is actually very simple: A club checkout is not a thing described within the law. It doesn't require an instructor, as far as the law is concerned. There are clubs/groups who allow certain designated experienced PPLs to check out other pilots, for example. So as far as the law is concerned, a club checkout is simply a flight which is undertaken by two people who both happen to have a current and valid PPL (or higher), in a single-crew aircraft. Just as with two PPLs on board, you've got to decide who gets to be PIC for the flight, but only one of the pilots on board can log P1 time. If both of the people on board are hour-builders (one for CPL, the other for ATPL, for instance), I guess it comes down to who can argue the best to resolve the conflict. (Me personally, as the poor PPL who pays for the plane and the instructor, would insist on logging it as P1 and otherwise find another person to check me out, FI or not, within the club rules.)
The only exception is when you make it into a flight lesson. In that case the "extra" person on board has to be a current FI who then logs P1, and the pilot getting a lesson and simultaneously getting a checkout is logging P/UT. At that point in time, this lesson can also count towards CPL license issue requirements, or towards your SEP revalidation requirements. This is the obvious way out for a PPL who is out of 90-day currency. You book a lesson with an FI, do the three landings as sole manipulator, log it as P/UT while the instructor logs P1, and you're good to go flying with passengers as far as the law is concerned. If the club wants to let such a lesson coincide with a club checkout, I can only say that it makes sense.