Light Aircraft crash in Scotland
Formerly HWD
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Until now in the climb out I’ve done the usual ‘lower the nose to check that you are not running in to some one / thing ahead’ without considering that I might fly invisibly up in to the path of another aircraft.
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When someone dies in an air accident it is tragic and everyone trys to be respectful but speculation about why and how is human nature. Perversely that speculation may save someone elses life. The EMA accident in particular has meant we have reviewed our procedures and part of that review was brought about from speculation on this forum.
It strange how some of the posters on here hate speculation but they seem to be the ones that seem to like 'flaming' and trying to belittle others.
It strange how some of the posters on here hate speculation but they seem to be the ones that seem to like 'flaming' and trying to belittle others.
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When someone dies in an air accident it is tragic and everyone trys to be respectful but speculation about why and how is human nature. Perversely that speculation may save someone elses life. The EMA accident in particular has meant we have reviewed our procedures and part of that review was brought about from speculation on this forum.
It strange how some of the posters on here hate speculation but they seem to be the ones that seem to like 'flaming' and trying to belittle others.
It strange how some of the posters on here hate speculation but they seem to be the ones that seem to like 'flaming' and trying to belittle others.
I guess we are all different in our approach to these things.
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Speculation
The problem with speculation is when it is in danger of becoming fact. Speculation is good as long as that is all it is... and it is made clear that that is all it is.
Speculation can be good when it is genuine discussion. As some have said here, it can lead one to think along channels where one wouldn't have gone had it not been for the speculation.
Some of the comments on this thread have made me think about how I do things - particularly with the comments on climb-out - and I will be changing the way I do things to reflect what I've learned here.
I was asked by officialdom to speculate on various aspects relating to an accident. I answered the queries as best I could from my own knowledge base. But, when my answers were read back to me, due to the way they'd been put into the written word, they were dangerously close to being stated as fact! I vigorously rejected that and made sure that it was understood that it was purely speculation - nothing more. No factual emphasis could be placed on it. I was particularly concerned that due to the way my replies had been phrased in writing, they could be interpreted as some kind of criticism of the unfortunate individual concerned.
That is a big problem with speculation. Speculation for itself is fine - as long as, as I've said, it is made clear that that is all it is, and that no criticism is implied.
As stated in a previous post - unless one was actually present, no-one can truly know what happened. However, the factual evidence uncovered in an investigation can lead to perhaps an informed guess.
Speculation can be good when it is genuine discussion. As some have said here, it can lead one to think along channels where one wouldn't have gone had it not been for the speculation.
Some of the comments on this thread have made me think about how I do things - particularly with the comments on climb-out - and I will be changing the way I do things to reflect what I've learned here.
I was asked by officialdom to speculate on various aspects relating to an accident. I answered the queries as best I could from my own knowledge base. But, when my answers were read back to me, due to the way they'd been put into the written word, they were dangerously close to being stated as fact! I vigorously rejected that and made sure that it was understood that it was purely speculation - nothing more. No factual emphasis could be placed on it. I was particularly concerned that due to the way my replies had been phrased in writing, they could be interpreted as some kind of criticism of the unfortunate individual concerned.
That is a big problem with speculation. Speculation for itself is fine - as long as, as I've said, it is made clear that that is all it is, and that no criticism is implied.
As stated in a previous post - unless one was actually present, no-one can truly know what happened. However, the factual evidence uncovered in an investigation can lead to perhaps an informed guess.
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Speculation is good as long as that is all it is... and it is made clear that that is all it is.
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machel:
Even that doesn't necessarily give you a hot line to the cause, in fact it frequently takes you down a blind alley, whether based on eye/ear witness accounts, or what the pilot or pax think they heard/saw/felt.
NS
unless one was actually present, no-one can truly know what happened
NS
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With respect does it really need to made clear on here, surely everyone knows it is speculation?
However, I have had experience of the press picking up on speculation and rendering it fact. And that is very hurtful to those closest to the individual(s) involved in the accident. None of us know who's logging on to this forum and reading the posts, and whether or not they have the intelligence to read and interpret the posts as they were intended - as an informal discussion and nothing more.
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However, I have had experience of the press picking up on speculation and rendering it fact.
Years ago I had to fly to another country to identify the bodies of two pilots who had flown into a mountain. The press interviewed me and asked me if I had flown over the route that the deceased pilots took, I replied ,"yes".
The story ran like this
Chief Instructor flys route to see where pilots went wrong.
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Llanfair,
The appropriate answer to that question was 'Which route I took to the site is not relevant; I am sure that the investigators will do everything they can to find out why the accident occurred'.
Or do you mean they mistook you for a 'Chief Instructor' (one of those daft epithets that the UK GA community thrive on)!
Ooops, [flame/OFF]
The appropriate answer to that question was 'Which route I took to the site is not relevant; I am sure that the investigators will do everything they can to find out why the accident occurred'.
Or do you mean they mistook you for a 'Chief Instructor' (one of those daft epithets that the UK GA community thrive on)!
Ooops, [flame/OFF]
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The appropriate answer to that question was 'Which route I took to the site is not relevant; I am sure that the investigators will do everything they can to find out why the accident occurred'
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DX dont worry he has a problem we cannot help with.
You reminded me how upsetting that accident was but the most upsetting thing was answering the phone to a man that was crying, I will never forget his words.
Why have I just read in the paper that my son has been killed in a light aircraft?
You reminded me how upsetting that accident was but the most upsetting thing was answering the phone to a man that was crying, I will never forget his words.
Why have I just read in the paper that my son has been killed in a light aircraft?
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Very, very, serious and heartfelt post follows:
Yes, certainly no apology here. Just illustrating that if you know what you're doing, the media won't take advantage, if you don't, it's best to keep schtumm, and leave it to those who DO know.
I have utmost sympathy for the situation he was in, but he does set himself up for falls, doesn't he?
Would you jump into the lion's cage at a zoo, and not expect to be mauled? Would you speak to the media, and not expect to be quoted out of context?
No misery there until you want, as he did, to play the 'Woe is me, I was misquoted' card.
I spend considerable time counselling the bereaved, and I don't need lessons from you in peace and goodwill. How many bodies have you seen in the last three years? You could switch off your computer and go and see if the local branch of Samaritans needs volunteers (the answer is almost certainly, 'yes, if you can do the task'), or sit in high and splendid isolation pontificating piously about that of which you have no practical experience... You might even find, to your delight and surprise, that you're very good at something you thought would be enormously difficult...
llanfair, the answer to your direct and valid question is either that the next of kin had been informed but had not passed word to the family (and had not asked the relevant authorities for a delay on publication of the names), or the next of kin had not been informed and the press were having another of their spectacularly 'off' days, in which case (in the UK)there are avenues for complaint; albeit avenues which revolve around the premise that democracy relies upon free press, or some similar scenario.
Yes, certainly no apology here. Just illustrating that if you know what you're doing, the media won't take advantage, if you don't, it's best to keep schtumm, and leave it to those who DO know.
I have utmost sympathy for the situation he was in, but he does set himself up for falls, doesn't he?
Would you jump into the lion's cage at a zoo, and not expect to be mauled? Would you speak to the media, and not expect to be quoted out of context?
No misery there until you want, as he did, to play the 'Woe is me, I was misquoted' card.
I spend considerable time counselling the bereaved, and I don't need lessons from you in peace and goodwill. How many bodies have you seen in the last three years? You could switch off your computer and go and see if the local branch of Samaritans needs volunteers (the answer is almost certainly, 'yes, if you can do the task'), or sit in high and splendid isolation pontificating piously about that of which you have no practical experience... You might even find, to your delight and surprise, that you're very good at something you thought would be enormously difficult...
llanfair, the answer to your direct and valid question is either that the next of kin had been informed but had not passed word to the family (and had not asked the relevant authorities for a delay on publication of the names), or the next of kin had not been informed and the press were having another of their spectacularly 'off' days, in which case (in the UK)there are avenues for complaint; albeit avenues which revolve around the premise that democracy relies upon free press, or some similar scenario.
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FLH Quote...If you know what you are doing the media will not take advantage. Absolute tosh. Llanfair strikes me as a person who knows what he is attempting to achieve and his initial post does not warrant the vitriol you offer. Your comments about the Samaritans is interesting considering your domicile is in France. Do the French have a Samaritans system or is it in your mind. I remember having to phone my own parents to advise them of an accident I had been involved with many years ago......Traumatic . As LLanfair says ,having an adult in tears is a trauma in itself. Its only the 2nd of January....destress yourself and recite the Serenity prayer...you must know what it means. Dont forget as a Hamster you will be aware of the trauma that the mid air caused to the relatives of the unfortunate pilots.
Keep it safe.
Keep it safe.