Light Aircraft crash in Scotland
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I understand the aircraft was a zenair GBVPL, I have spoken to the aircraft many times in the past as he operated out of Midlem farm, so I guess would have been well aware of all the hazards around.My thoughts with family and friends.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I can only speak for the use of Flarm where I fly in Switzerland.
At my homebase all gliders, microlights and rescue helicopters have it fitted. There is some scepticism amongst the 'Lycoming' flyers which is unfortunate.
Flarm is GPS based; all pylons, masts and aerial cables are in its database. Anybody can add new obstacles by sending their coordinates to the developers.
It can be linked to PDA devices such as Pocket FMS or SeeYou Mobile to give a map based display of threats with voice warning.
Fitting of Flarm is partially subsidised by aviation insurance companies in Switzerland.
At my homebase all gliders, microlights and rescue helicopters have it fitted. There is some scepticism amongst the 'Lycoming' flyers which is unfortunate.
Flarm is GPS based; all pylons, masts and aerial cables are in its database. Anybody can add new obstacles by sending their coordinates to the developers.
It can be linked to PDA devices such as Pocket FMS or SeeYou Mobile to give a map based display of threats with voice warning.
Fitting of Flarm is partially subsidised by aviation insurance companies in Switzerland.
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The BGA are looking at FLARM for the UK, but at the moment it is technically illegal to use it in UK airspace.
However, it is too soon to see whether or not a technical solution, such as GPS or FLARM would have made any difference to this case.
However, it is too soon to see whether or not a technical solution, such as GPS or FLARM would have made any difference to this case.
Blah Blah Blah
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Poor vis + low flying + high objetcs = disatser waiting to happen (no matter how well you know the area).
Terrible tragedy, but there does seem to be quiet a few of these sort of incidents happening this year.
Terrible tragedy, but there does seem to be quiet a few of these sort of incidents happening this year.
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Flarm is GPS based; all pylons, masts and aerial cables are in its database. Anybody can add new obstacles by sending their coordinates to the developers.
I have one of these on my yoke; it has been tested pretty well against various terrain in Wales and elsewhere and short of actually flying into a few hills I reckon it does what it says on the tin. AFAICT the database is identical to the certified version used on the GNS530. And you get a pretty good aviation GPS, for ..... navigation
OTOH if one is flying at high voltage pylon level, all bets are off and one can hardly call that kind of stuff "VFR flight". The professionals that do that sort of low level flying (S&R, power line inspection, etc) AFAIK fly dual-crew and they use the 1:25k or 1:50k O/Survey charts - I have used these and similar charts and they are mightly difficult to use while flying single pilot. They also use helicopters so when the cloudbase reaches the ground they land, have a pee and unpack the sandwiches
The BGA are looking at FLARM for the UK, but at the moment it is technically illegal to use it in UK airspace
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I think the poster is referring to the garage door problem... 
...some have suggested that the part of the radio spectrum that FLARM uses is dedicated to remote controlled garage doors and the like, and that its use is therefore outside what's permissable under the WT acts. When I looked into this briefly, it got very boring very quickly.
Personal opinion alert: I don't buy the whole FLARM idea; if you want technological answers then only TCAS and Mode S will work in the long run, and science will get the weight and cost down in the medium term.
...some have suggested that the part of the radio spectrum that FLARM uses is dedicated to remote controlled garage doors and the like, and that its use is therefore outside what's permissable under the WT acts. When I looked into this briefly, it got very boring very quickly.
Personal opinion alert: I don't buy the whole FLARM idea; if you want technological answers then only TCAS and Mode S will work in the long run, and science will get the weight and cost down in the medium term.
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The BGA are looking at FLARM for the UK
In my limited experience, looking out of the window is quite a good idea, and if all you see is grey, you obey the law and fly at 1000 feet above anything within 5nm as marked on your chart.
NS
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Why is it that every time on this forum whenever an accident occurs people end up speculating as to the reason for the incident...........does anyone actually know if indeed this accident was caused by the aircraft flying into wires, radio mast etc???? I would suggest that this reasoning is left to those in the know...in this csae the AIB, in the mean time we should respect the loss of one of our Scottish aviation family!!!!
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Grifo,
Maybe it's got nothing whatsoever to do with FLARM, or CFIT, or weather, and you might have the patience to wait for people who investigate these things to reach some accurate conclusions.
Maybe it's got nothing whatsoever to do with FLARM, or CFIT, or weather, and you might have the patience to wait for people who investigate these things to reach some accurate conclusions.
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Indeed. The local paper, the Southern Reporter, is now saying that engine failure is "the most likely cause", and that the pilot was trying to make an emergency landing when he crashed, but they seem to have absolutely no evidence for it.
NS
NS
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Agree
Fisbangwollop & FLH - I whole-heartedly agree. I was around when that light aircraft that departed Oban at Easter crashed. I saw it leave, and was 'phoned by a reporter afterwards for "speculation". I said nothing to the reporter - not even that I did see it leave. Because no-one can know exactly what happened and why, except those involved. As you say, it's best left to the AAIB.
I accept your humble apologies FLH
Speculation = smart arsing
Someone has died here in tragic circumstances and no amount of speculation or advertising of clever kit not on board, will do any good whatsoever.
El G.
Speculation = smart arsing
Someone has died here in tragic circumstances and no amount of speculation or advertising of clever kit not on board, will do any good whatsoever.
El G.
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“no amount of speculation or advertising of clever kit not on board, will do any good whatsoever.”
I have to say I totally disagree. As a direct result of speculation on the recent mid air in the east mids I have changed my operating procedures. I could have waited until the AAIB report in 12 months, but I could have died in an identical mid air by then.
Rod1
I have to say I totally disagree. As a direct result of speculation on the recent mid air in the east mids I have changed my operating procedures. I could have waited until the AAIB report in 12 months, but I could have died in an identical mid air by then.
Rod1
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I was driving in the vacinity of the crash site yesterday (drove from Newcastle-Melrose) and the weather was variable. Before crossing the border cloud level was low with rain. After the border it had stopped raining, but there was localised poor vis due to low cloud.
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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There will always be speculation amongst other pilots following aviation accidents, it's only natural. This is not due to some ghoulish behaviour, but borne out of a curiosity from others involved in the same activity.
Now, to speculate that the pilot was drunk or totally incompetant would be wrong, but I personally think through things that might have happened, and how I might best avoid such situations. I also read the monthly AAIB reports, again, not out of some morbid curiosity, but to try to learn from others sad mistakes.
I'm afraid, speculation of this type will always occur, though whether it should be aired on these forums is perhaps open to question.
FWIW, it happens (even more so) amongst the professionals over on Rumour and News, and there are always some that protest there too.
I also contribute to a boating forum, and when accidents happen, guess what, the same speculation occurs. That particular forum is likened to a sailing club bar, where such matters can be discussed openly without recriminations.
Now, to speculate that the pilot was drunk or totally incompetant would be wrong, but I personally think through things that might have happened, and how I might best avoid such situations. I also read the monthly AAIB reports, again, not out of some morbid curiosity, but to try to learn from others sad mistakes.
I'm afraid, speculation of this type will always occur, though whether it should be aired on these forums is perhaps open to question.
FWIW, it happens (even more so) amongst the professionals over on Rumour and News, and there are always some that protest there too.
I also contribute to a boating forum, and when accidents happen, guess what, the same speculation occurs. That particular forum is likened to a sailing club bar, where such matters can be discussed openly without recriminations.
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Grifo,
I didn't offer you my apologies, and I've no idea why you think I did...
If you read my posts here carefully, you'll see that I don't speculate... Nor do I make intemperate remarks about bereaved families.
Or perhaps you recommended that FLARM should be explained to the family just to keep their minds occupied?
Rob,
Care to share with us what you now do differently?
I didn't offer you my apologies, and I've no idea why you think I did...
If you read my posts here carefully, you'll see that I don't speculate... Nor do I make intemperate remarks about bereaved families.
Or perhaps you recommended that FLARM should be explained to the family just to keep their minds occupied?
Rob,
Care to share with us what you now do differently?
Last edited by frontlefthamster; 1st Jan 2008 at 15:46.
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I learned about flying from the EMA midair
I’ll chip in with what I now do differently following the EMA midair.
I operate from a farm strip adjacent to a popular unofficial VRP. The climb out direction is often towards another very popular visual navigation feature. I will now consider other aircraft which may be in level flight, above and overhauling me.
I fly a slow aircraft (bird strike on the back of the wings etc), so almost everyone passes me. Until now in the climb out I’ve done the usual ‘lower the nose to check that you are not running in to some one / thing ahead’ without considering that I might fly invisibly up in to the path of another aircraft.
I’m not saying that this was the cause of the EMA midair, but it did make me think, which is always useful in aviation.
Safe Flying,
Richard W.
I operate from a farm strip adjacent to a popular unofficial VRP. The climb out direction is often towards another very popular visual navigation feature. I will now consider other aircraft which may be in level flight, above and overhauling me.
I fly a slow aircraft (bird strike on the back of the wings etc), so almost everyone passes me. Until now in the climb out I’ve done the usual ‘lower the nose to check that you are not running in to some one / thing ahead’ without considering that I might fly invisibly up in to the path of another aircraft.
I’m not saying that this was the cause of the EMA midair, but it did make me think, which is always useful in aviation.
Safe Flying,
Richard W.