Learning to Fly Suffolk/Norfolk

[Cooleo]

Hello!

(First Post). Im wanting to learn to fly but at the moment £100+ at my nearest airfield is way too much (Beccles). If anyone has a cheaper way for me to do it? If it helps, Im a webpage designer and I can also design games.

Thanks
Mike

[maxdrypower]

Sorry old chap but short of buying your own aircraft 100 quid plus is the rate . Most will be between 110-140 pound per hour .
Might I suggests microlights they average around 70 per hour .
I dont see designing games as an advantage though

[Cooleo]

Thanks

Ive found £95. I just thought if someone on here was willing to teach, I could do them services in return (aswell as cash).

Thanks
Mike

[Charles Sierra]

Cooleo ,Check your PM's

[maxdrypower]

I would say youd be very lucky . 95 per hour wont include landing fee which is normally between 10-20 per landing , plus not every lesson lasts one hour . When you do circuits you will be landing five or six times per session , so do the maths . Unfortunately it is an expensive game . Pick a figure to set aside for training then add at least 20% perhaps more. You are only fifteen so you've got a long time to play with . Start saving matey your gonna need it good luck. NB if you are anywhere nr old buckenham they are very good and its a lovely set up

[Charles Sierra]

Cooleo
Have you tried Seething?. Have sent you a PM with membership secretarys details. The cost for tuition at Seething is about £75 per full hour incl and that is with Instructor and ALL landings !!!!!. How do I know? It is the route I took and it worked very well.

[Cooleo]

Thanks!

Cool thanks, Ill give them a buzz.

[stiknruda]

Cooleo,


Aged 15 - just how are you going to get to Seething from Lo'stoft?

I often need enthusiastic yet gentle, bright youngsters to clean my aeroplanes/hangar in return for money or the odd flight.

Go figure.


Stik

[Cooleo]

Cool

Cool, if you ever need some manual labour or whatever, MSN me,Email me or PM me. My dad and brother love aviation aswell, My dad used to be a glider pilot, and got his licsence so he is more than willing to take me places.

Thanks!

[formationfoto]

Cooleo

Dont want to poor cold water on enthusiasm but you ned to get real on cost I am afraid. The PPL route is still expensive. The NPPL route (SSEA) has hardly made it more affordable. There are one or two clubs such as Seething which offers training at a huge subsidy but you wont find may of them and you will be expected to be there every saturday to clean the toilets and polish the runway with a toothbrush - actually you no longer need to do that last bit but you do have to be there every weekend. Not easy of you dont have transport.

The cheapest route is still NPPL microlight then if you wish convert to SSEA. YOu can upgrade from NPPL to full JAR PPL if you need to.

Microlight schools dont require the samel level of airfield and often have few overheads so can afford to offer training for less and still make a small profit.

[Cooleo]

Hmm thanks for that. I do have transportation whenever I need it thanks to my father! I might be tempted to go for Microlights as it also looks fun! Does seething do that?

THanks

[SkyHawk-N]

Cooleo, another option might be to take up gliding. It's a cost effective way to get into the air and learn how to fly.

I fly from your local, or one of your, local gliding airfields (but don't glide myself) and they offer a Cadet scheme. It costs £40/yr and, I believe, instruction is free and you pay for the winch or aerotow launches you use, this would need to be confirmed. You can get solo when you turn 16. PM me if you would like more information.

I'm sure other gliding clubs may offer something similar so it may be something for you to investigate further.

[skyfly150]

Learn to Fly

Cooleo...........Try Seething airfield.

Come along and give us a look on any Saturday......we have professional instructors and you can learn with us in a four seater aircraft for around £75 per hour.
When you have your licence, that same four seater aircraft is yours to fly for the same rate per hour, or even less!

Now nobody can beat that from a licenced airfield !!!

Two superb flight simulators also on the airfield for really cheap flying (free to club members)

And a great social atmosphere...........we all love Seething!!

Come and join us.

[Zulu Alpha]

I often need enthusiastic yet gentle, bright youngsters to clean my aeroplanes/hangar in return for money or the odd flight.

Where do I sign up!!!!!!!

ZA

[Loose rivets]

As an oldie, I find these prices astonishing. Can inflation alone have made prices change this much? I suppose compared to the price of a house, it has, but compared to wages, at least average wages, it seems to have outstripped inflation.

At Southend, there was a commercial course with Austers charged at £3.50 per hour. The landing fee was 2/6d (which is 1/8 of a pound.) and was for the LAST LANDING ONLY. We were used to help calibrate their (offset) precision radar, and mixed in with the commercial traffic as though we were part of an airline.

I just can not understand how this country expects to turn out people that would be of benefit to the nation -- if we were ever at war again for example -- when it allows the training of progressive young chaps to be crushed like this.

I spent some time trying to persuade the boss of Ipswich airport to have a no landing fees policy. I put forward a rough business plan that showed just how much profit could be made with ancillary services. He didn't really give it a hope of succeeding.

Always, the land prices in England have made business-plan analysis a bit of an exercise in futility. Ipswich for example was worth far, far more as a building plot than an airfield.

[TheOddOne]

but compared to wages, at least average wages, it seems to have outstripped inflation.

Well, I started flying 25 years ago. I think that wages for the job I was doing then have gone up by about x8 whereas at least at the same Group where I learned, flying rates have gone up from around £30ph to £110, less than x4.

If this is the case, then the real cost of learning to fly has halved in the past 25 years.

My former colleagues mostly played golf. They were suprised when we compared costs of maintaining a flying licence with enjoying their sport. Most of them, when honsetly appraising their expenditure, were spending at least twice as much as me, I reckon they were each averaging £4k, with club membership, green fees, new clubs every 3 years, clothing etc etc.

So I don't think it's any increase in prices that are preventing people from starting. Perhaps there is less disposable income about - more being spent relatively on a mortgage, though the shops always seem packed on a Sunday so they must be out there spending it on something.

Aviators are also an ageing population. It's not just power flying, the glider clubs report the same; young people just don't seem to want to make the commitment to learning how to fly an actual aircraft.

Cheers,
TheOddOne

[xrayalpha]

TheOddOne,

You have it right, the costs of flying have actually fallen over the years - it has rarely been so cheap!

Of course the price, in pounds and pence, is higher - but compared to retail price idexes, wages etc etc, it has fallen quiet significantly.

In fact, I was surprised to hear on the radio the other day that mogas is cheaper - in real terms - today than it was five years ago!

But why is flying losing popularity?

Because the facilities are cr*p! The aircraft are shagged out, the stuffing hangs out the seats etc. The airfields have damp portable buildings. When you get there there is nowhere to go (because there is no ground transport), etc ect.

Why are they cr*p.

Well, perhaps because every corner other than safety has been cut to try and keep prices down.

Yet it costs 3k a year to park a static caravan (which you have actually paid for) on a caravan park. It costs 4k a year to park a boat in a marina on the Clyde.

Yet Cumbernauld's 4k a year to park a light aircraft indoors is seen as a rip-off.

And a landing fee of a tenner is a rip-off. (Yet people pay a fiver to park a car when shopping, and how many cars per square metre of concrete car park do you get compared to aircraft per square metre of runway?)

So if you want to invest, I'd choose a car park over an airfield.

And if no-one invest, you get cr*p. And then you lose customers!

Lok at successful golf clubs. Look at the annual membership fee and then the fee per round. That's dearer than the same aspects of flying, but you get a lot more for your cash. (of course, a set of golf clubs is cheaper to buy than an aircraft, so if you factor that part in, flying gets dearer, but I am trying to compare like with like).

As long as people - but it is human nature - want something cheap, they'll get what they pay for.

And as long as desperate flying school/club operators keep trying to compete on price and not quality, everyone will be dragged down to the lowest level.

So, to be blunt.

If you can't afford £100 an hour, either work more to earn more or study more to be able to get a well-paid job in a few years time.

There have been some good offers, like washing planes (ie work more), if you can't wait for the study more route.

Personally, we all go on about getting young people involved.

I don't give a stuff about that.

I want enthusiastic people involved - of any age and fitness. (We have just trained the world's first pilot who has had a heart transplant)

I want staff and students prepared to commit to aviation.

I want the staff to be able to earn the national average wage - not something that will make them rich, not something that will bankrupt their families. But something that should enable them to make ends meet and stay working as instructors etc in a job they love.

And I want students to be able to bond with their instructors in the knowledge that these folk will still be there in a few years time to help them build and build their aviation skills.

I want people to have fun with their flying.

And that is beyond price.

Happy 2008!

XA