The real Heron
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Shropshire UK
The real Heron
Aircraft and birds have different aspect ratio wings depending on their mission. You can tell an Vans from a sailplane with ease.
Speedy stooping birds of prey have the full tapered speed thing like a DH88, whereas loitering, ground covering, thermalling ground-feeding birds like buzzards have low aspect ratio untapered wing forms with airflow management at the tips.
So what part of the performance requirement of the heron presently taking fish out of my garden pond requires such big, thermalling wings like a condor? All it does is either stand rock still to fish or flap heavily to land two fields away when waved off. And what's it going to feed on in an English arable field anyway?
Any ppruners happen to know why they are configured like this?
regards
HnH
Speedy stooping birds of prey have the full tapered speed thing like a DH88, whereas loitering, ground covering, thermalling ground-feeding birds like buzzards have low aspect ratio untapered wing forms with airflow management at the tips.
So what part of the performance requirement of the heron presently taking fish out of my garden pond requires such big, thermalling wings like a condor? All it does is either stand rock still to fish or flap heavily to land two fields away when waved off. And what's it going to feed on in an English arable field anyway?
Any ppruners happen to know why they are configured like this?
regards
HnH
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,325
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From: UK
Herons fly slowly, looking for ponds containing juicy fish, or likely stetches of river. Then they need to land even more slowly, so they can 'alight' on a fishing spot in relative silence, with no splash of water or fast ground run to frighten the prey. They are quite big birds, so they need big wings giving them a low 'wing loading' so they can accomplish this.
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
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From: UK
It does suprise me that, given their distinct lack of aerodynamic gravitas, we see Herons so far away from what you would be consider their natural habitat.
As a heron flies I am around 12nm from the nearest Norfolk broad and about the same from any major river complex supplying Heron grub, yet I frequently see them in the locality.
Scare them away and they take off an fly with the elegance of a breeze block, quite how they manage the distances I don't know, taxis and buses perhaps?
As a heron flies I am around 12nm from the nearest Norfolk broad and about the same from any major river complex supplying Heron grub, yet I frequently see them in the locality.
Scare them away and they take off an fly with the elegance of a breeze block, quite how they manage the distances I don't know, taxis and buses perhaps?
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 107
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From: Shropshire UK
Shaggy thanks,
alighting quietly make sense, and thinking about it, those long legs need a controlled arrival to avoid the risk of snapped bones.
We are many miles from any open water here, and I still can't imagine herons in cruise mode, but i guess one (or a pair) needs to patrol a big territory to find enough food.
I shall keep observing. We're getting low on fish but I'm loath to see a fellow aviator suffer for lack of cold-blooded scaly things to eat.
So far cannot find a 3-view of a DH 114 to see if there's any connection.
regards
HnH
alighting quietly make sense, and thinking about it, those long legs need a controlled arrival to avoid the risk of snapped bones.
We are many miles from any open water here, and I still can't imagine herons in cruise mode, but i guess one (or a pair) needs to patrol a big territory to find enough food.
I shall keep observing. We're getting low on fish but I'm loath to see a fellow aviator suffer for lack of cold-blooded scaly things to eat.
So far cannot find a 3-view of a DH 114 to see if there's any connection.
regards
HnH
Joined: Sep 2001
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 2,787
Likes: 208
From: Toronto
Anything that moves and fits down the beak is food for herons and most other birds.
Amphibians, reptiles, ducklings are happily eaten although the supply of aforesaid is limited this time of year.
Perhaps there's mice in the fields.
Do not get close to a great blue heron. They have been known to fatally puncture human rib cages with their beaks
Amphibians, reptiles, ducklings are happily eaten although the supply of aforesaid is limited this time of year.
Perhaps there's mice in the fields.
Do not get close to a great blue heron. They have been known to fatally puncture human rib cages with their beaks
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: East Midlands UK
The real Heron
Been following the Heron thread with interest. It reminded me that some years ago I wrote a review of a book on the relationship twixt birds and aircraft. The book is still available and I commend it to all aviators
Bladud REX
Book Review: The Simple Science of Flight
As enthusiasts, I expect many members have a number of aviation volumes on their bookshelves. Oddly enough, for someone with more than a passing interest in aviation, only a few of mine have anything to do with the theory of flight, the HOW? of the discipline.
In the introduction to his book, Dutchman Henk Tennekes, describes his publication as an "act of revenge" after being taken to task by his head of department at Pennsylvania State University in 1969, for illustrating his lectures with comparisons between bird flight, and aeroplane theory.
The book uses as its core ‘The Great Flight Diagram’, a remarkable insight into the performance relationships between insects, birds and aircraft flight –(put your own favourite aircraft in there and see where it falls in the great aeronautical scheme of things). The inspired use of statistical data in graphic form in this elegant way, is surely going to find a place on my workshop wall.
This author really brings his subject alive; fascinatingly for anyone
with aviation interests, he links the theory from insects all the way through to the B747, in a way which makes it highly readable and brings fresh and delightful insights on almost every page.
One chapter entitled Flying with Finesse, shows how the ice skater generates forward thrust, Tennekes then effortlessly draws parallels between that example, and flapping flight in birds (just turn the plane of action through 90 degrees)
The old chestnut; “Scientists say that the honeybee is theoretically
incapable of flight etc” has been around too long -as the author demonstrates when he describes how we all operate within the same set of rules every time we commit aviation –whether we realise it or not. (Look at the Great Flight Diagram and see where the bumblebee falls in relation to the trend line)
Inevitably there is some theory in a book of this sort, but don’t be put off, -it is all simple and eminently readable, and makes a great deal of sense.
Textbooks rarely have a heroine –but this one does- and in this case it is the Boeing 747 who wears the white hat. Interestingly, there is also a beautiful ‘baddie’ –but I will leave you to learn her identity for yourself!
If you only ever buy one book on the theory of flight in your whole
life, make it this one, it is excellent value. Illustrated by line drawings throughout, it has a full index, and is I believe, destined to become a classic. Alternatively ask your local library to get hold of a copy, then others may get to read it as well.
THE SIMPLE SCIENCE OF FLIGHT Henk Tennekes ISBN 0-262-20105-4
Published by MIT Press, London, at £17.50.
Bladud REX
Book Review: The Simple Science of Flight
As enthusiasts, I expect many members have a number of aviation volumes on their bookshelves. Oddly enough, for someone with more than a passing interest in aviation, only a few of mine have anything to do with the theory of flight, the HOW? of the discipline.
In the introduction to his book, Dutchman Henk Tennekes, describes his publication as an "act of revenge" after being taken to task by his head of department at Pennsylvania State University in 1969, for illustrating his lectures with comparisons between bird flight, and aeroplane theory.
The book uses as its core ‘The Great Flight Diagram’, a remarkable insight into the performance relationships between insects, birds and aircraft flight –(put your own favourite aircraft in there and see where it falls in the great aeronautical scheme of things). The inspired use of statistical data in graphic form in this elegant way, is surely going to find a place on my workshop wall.
This author really brings his subject alive; fascinatingly for anyone
with aviation interests, he links the theory from insects all the way through to the B747, in a way which makes it highly readable and brings fresh and delightful insights on almost every page.
One chapter entitled Flying with Finesse, shows how the ice skater generates forward thrust, Tennekes then effortlessly draws parallels between that example, and flapping flight in birds (just turn the plane of action through 90 degrees)
The old chestnut; “Scientists say that the honeybee is theoretically
incapable of flight etc” has been around too long -as the author demonstrates when he describes how we all operate within the same set of rules every time we commit aviation –whether we realise it or not. (Look at the Great Flight Diagram and see where the bumblebee falls in relation to the trend line)
Inevitably there is some theory in a book of this sort, but don’t be put off, -it is all simple and eminently readable, and makes a great deal of sense.
Textbooks rarely have a heroine –but this one does- and in this case it is the Boeing 747 who wears the white hat. Interestingly, there is also a beautiful ‘baddie’ –but I will leave you to learn her identity for yourself!
If you only ever buy one book on the theory of flight in your whole
life, make it this one, it is excellent value. Illustrated by line drawings throughout, it has a full index, and is I believe, destined to become a classic. Alternatively ask your local library to get hold of a copy, then others may get to read it as well.
THE SIMPLE SCIENCE OF FLIGHT Henk Tennekes ISBN 0-262-20105-4
Published by MIT Press, London, at £17.50.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,479
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From: Surrey Hills
Rather be flying said...."Anything that moves and fits down the beak is food for herons and most other birds."
A farmer friend, near Metfield Suffolk, has a large pond - 100 feet by 40 stocked with big fat carp. Some years ago we drained the lake, to attend to the clay sealer layer and in doing so transferred the mighty beasts to a smaller pool. In handling the carp it was noticeable that
nearly every one had been stabbed in the back by herons. A large number had distorted spines as a result. Vicious birds.
Thread creep....
Nearby at old Metfield Airfield is the remains of a huge crater caused by the resident B-24 bomb dump exploding as someone mishandled a fused one. There is a picture somewhere of an airman pointing skyward at a 3 ton truck which had reached an altitude of around 1500 feet. Found it.....
1200 tons went up
A farmer friend, near Metfield Suffolk, has a large pond - 100 feet by 40 stocked with big fat carp. Some years ago we drained the lake, to attend to the clay sealer layer and in doing so transferred the mighty beasts to a smaller pool. In handling the carp it was noticeable that
nearly every one had been stabbed in the back by herons. A large number had distorted spines as a result. Vicious birds.
Thread creep....
Nearby at old Metfield Airfield is the remains of a huge crater caused by the resident B-24 bomb dump exploding as someone mishandled a fused one. There is a picture somewhere of an airman pointing skyward at a 3 ton truck which had reached an altitude of around 1500 feet. Found it.....
1200 tons went up
Last edited by aviate1138; 1st January 2008 at 07:49. Reason: Typo and graphics
