PA30 Twin Comm, Aztec or Seneca I?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North of the border
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Twin Com landings
The Twin Com is easy to land, just remember the basics are the same as a single.
You probably arrived too fast as most new to the type do. Read the manual and fly the "V" numbers.
The safety speeds were increased some time ago after some single engine spin incidents at low level in the USA but the a/c was originally approved at lower "V" speeds.
Anyway if you approach at the recommended speed and flare correctly you should not float. Use the trim on finals.
I operate a PA30B out of 800 mts of grass strip and regularly fly in and out of a 600 mts grass strip.
PM me if you would like to talk it through.
Enjoy.. they are a great machine, 50 LPH@ 160 kts. Hard to beat. Even the DA42 can't fly that fast and costs 3 times as much.
You probably arrived too fast as most new to the type do. Read the manual and fly the "V" numbers.
The safety speeds were increased some time ago after some single engine spin incidents at low level in the USA but the a/c was originally approved at lower "V" speeds.
Anyway if you approach at the recommended speed and flare correctly you should not float. Use the trim on finals.
I operate a PA30B out of 800 mts of grass strip and regularly fly in and out of a 600 mts grass strip.
PM me if you would like to talk it through.
Enjoy.. they are a great machine, 50 LPH@ 160 kts. Hard to beat. Even the DA42 can't fly that fast and costs 3 times as much.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: kent
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Go for an aztec
I have a nice model E, having owned (and still flying a single Comanche, sold to a friend, flew last Saturday). The Aztec will get in and out of virtually anywhere (last weekend I and the owner of the Comanche went into a 500m grass strip normally used by microlights in the Aztec without any problems) and has a rugged undercarriage that doesn't mind bumpy grass. It's about the only twin that doesn't limit your options for strips compared to an average single (and outperforms many on short fields).
I actually found it more fun (although obviously less sporty in handling) than the single Comanche to fly - it was a bit bumpy and the Aztec was much smoother. You can carry anything you like, 6 adults, full fuel, baggage (and lots of volume as well as weight capacity - I emptied the back of a large car full of luggage into it and took 4 kids and partner on holiday). Single engine is a non-event - I have just been talking to someone who recently lost an engine (cylinder detached) in his when 6 up on a warm day and calmly continued his flight to the maintenance airfield on one engine. I learnt MEP on a Seneca and found if you don't quickly pin the blue line, it goes down, whereas doing Multi-IMC renewal in the aztec was not so taxing - the docility and power is I think important for someone like me - a low time MEP pilot. As a single comanche owner, all I ever read was that the twins frequently bit unwary pilots. All I've ever heard about Aztecs is that they are forgiving. Someone might correct me but I'm pretty confident from what I've researched that there are relatively few accidents in Aztecs (not sure if that's true for Apaches) following a single engine failure and quite a few in Senecas and Comanches.
Downside is it's not that fast (I had 176 kts ground speed on Saturday at 13-14 us gph/side, generally cruise at about 160kts at 12 gph/side) compared to some others (B58, 310 which cost a lot more and need more runway) but unless you are regularly going on 400 mile trips the extra time is minimal compared to the time at each end. Some of them have very dated panels and whatever you spend on updating it, you are unlikely to change its value that much. I got one because it was cheaper than a Baron and I wouldn't now swap if money were not a factor. However, if you plan to confine yourself to respectable hard runways and do lots of long distance flying, you could spend a bit more on something faster.
I actually found it more fun (although obviously less sporty in handling) than the single Comanche to fly - it was a bit bumpy and the Aztec was much smoother. You can carry anything you like, 6 adults, full fuel, baggage (and lots of volume as well as weight capacity - I emptied the back of a large car full of luggage into it and took 4 kids and partner on holiday). Single engine is a non-event - I have just been talking to someone who recently lost an engine (cylinder detached) in his when 6 up on a warm day and calmly continued his flight to the maintenance airfield on one engine. I learnt MEP on a Seneca and found if you don't quickly pin the blue line, it goes down, whereas doing Multi-IMC renewal in the aztec was not so taxing - the docility and power is I think important for someone like me - a low time MEP pilot. As a single comanche owner, all I ever read was that the twins frequently bit unwary pilots. All I've ever heard about Aztecs is that they are forgiving. Someone might correct me but I'm pretty confident from what I've researched that there are relatively few accidents in Aztecs (not sure if that's true for Apaches) following a single engine failure and quite a few in Senecas and Comanches.
Downside is it's not that fast (I had 176 kts ground speed on Saturday at 13-14 us gph/side, generally cruise at about 160kts at 12 gph/side) compared to some others (B58, 310 which cost a lot more and need more runway) but unless you are regularly going on 400 mile trips the extra time is minimal compared to the time at each end. Some of them have very dated panels and whatever you spend on updating it, you are unlikely to change its value that much. I got one because it was cheaper than a Baron and I wouldn't now swap if money were not a factor. However, if you plan to confine yourself to respectable hard runways and do lots of long distance flying, you could spend a bit more on something faster.
The Aztec is docile - it has the same wing section as the Cub - however at max. weight it will bite you on one engine just as easily as a Seneca. Performance loss is still on the order of 80% so don't expect anything flash and *all* except in-line thrust types will turn turtle and spear in if you mishandle them asymmetrically.
Flight test/checkride conditions are usually misleading. They're almost never at max weight with only two up + fuel, and sometimes zero thrust isn't as close to slightly-less-than-zero as it should be. The more load capacity of the aircraft the greater the differential of training weight vs full.
Flight test/checkride conditions are usually misleading. They're almost never at max weight with only two up + fuel, and sometimes zero thrust isn't as close to slightly-less-than-zero as it should be. The more load capacity of the aircraft the greater the differential of training weight vs full.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England that central part of Britian between Ecosse and Occupied France
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DFC
aztec 4 seater. where's this from spent many hours (thousands) six up frieght up .iced up; in the70;s 80.s.lots of it legal public transport.wonderfull machine!
aztec 4 seater. where's this from spent many hours (thousands) six up frieght up .iced up; in the70;s 80.s.lots of it legal public transport.wonderfull machine!
Last edited by much2much; 26th Mar 2009 at 18:45.
