Quick/cheap taildragger sign-off
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,517
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From: Vancouver Island
The differences between nose wheel and tail wheel airplanes is greatly over exaggerated.
However the difference between learning to fly a helicopter compared to an airplane is signifigant.
Two of the easiest tail wheel airplanes to fly are both 3's.....the J3 and the DC3.
However the difference between learning to fly a helicopter compared to an airplane is signifigant.
Two of the easiest tail wheel airplanes to fly are both 3's.....the J3 and the DC3.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,077
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From: Oop North, UK
I can do you a tailwheel sign off if you have the aircraft. If you fly it OK then I will sign it, but this will need to include things like crosswind landings, I suspect if you have only flown a tailwheel once then you will actually need a bit more than just a single check flight.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 28
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From: the priory
hello everyone, wow - that was quick!
some good suggestions for places to look at there - thanks very much for that.
as for my attitude to aviation - pitts 2112 and others - thanks for your concern chaps but if you knew the first thing about me or my background, you'd appreciate just how wrong you are
this is just a particular problem where i need a tailwheel signature in my book as painlessly as possible, so i can then go learn to fly this glider tug. the glider flying outfit cant do this for me, otherwise i'd do that, clearly.
i flew a cap10 a couple of years ago (which seemed to be drama free - although it was in benign conditions and i believe its quite a forgiving one as taildraggers go) and i should have flown it again and got it signed off back then, but didnt..
cheers!!
some good suggestions for places to look at there - thanks very much for that.
as for my attitude to aviation - pitts 2112 and others - thanks for your concern chaps but if you knew the first thing about me or my background, you'd appreciate just how wrong you are
this is just a particular problem where i need a tailwheel signature in my book as painlessly as possible, so i can then go learn to fly this glider tug. the glider flying outfit cant do this for me, otherwise i'd do that, clearly.
i flew a cap10 a couple of years ago (which seemed to be drama free - although it was in benign conditions and i believe its quite a forgiving one as taildraggers go) and i should have flown it again and got it signed off back then, but didnt..
cheers!!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,218
Likes: 2
From: USA
The differences between nose wheel and tail wheel airplanes is greatly over exaggerated.
However the difference between learning to fly a helicopter compared to an airplane is signifigant.
Two of the easiest tail wheel airplanes to fly are both 3's.....the J3 and the DC3.
However the difference between learning to fly a helicopter compared to an airplane is signifigant.
Two of the easiest tail wheel airplanes to fly are both 3's.....the J3 and the DC3.
Fly Conventional Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,600
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From: Winchester
sick bag may I offer a word of advice....make sure your instructor has lots of time on tailwheels, in tandem cockpit aircraft it is sometimes hard for the instructor to see exactly what the student is doing and generally speaking a Cub for example is probably harder to teach in than say the C152 from the practical point of view.
So make sure your instructor is a good one!
So make sure your instructor is a good one!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 476
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From: Massachusetts Bay Colony
Sickbag,
No problem. I'm happy to be proven wrong. But I'll also be interested to hear your take on it after you get a season of flying the tug under your belt.
Good luck in any capacity (and don't forget the NOTAMs, please.)
No problem. I'm happy to be proven wrong. But I'll also be interested to hear your take on it after you get a season of flying the tug under your belt.
Good luck in any capacity (and don't forget the NOTAMs, please.)
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 236
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From: Looking for the signals square at LHR
"Two of the easiest tail wheel airplanes to fly are both 3's.....the J3 and the DC3."
Agreed, Chuck, but at least you can do a take-off roll in the J3 without having to follow the DI and you don't have to remember the tailwheel lock - those shear-pins got expensive after a while! Things very foreign to the younger generations.
GQ.
Agreed, Chuck, but at least you can do a take-off roll in the J3 without having to follow the DI and you don't have to remember the tailwheel lock - those shear-pins got expensive after a while! Things very foreign to the younger generations.
GQ.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,579
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From: Not a million miles from EGTF
>>>>>this is just a particular problem where i need a tailwheel signature in my book as painlessly as possible, so i can then go learn to fly this glider tug. the glider flying outfit cant do this for me, otherwise i'd do that, clearly.
i flew a cap10 a couple of years ago (which seemed to be drama free - although it was in benign conditions and i believe its quite a forgiving one as taildraggers go) and i should have flown it again and got it signed off back then, but didnt..<<<<<
Ok sick bag, you can stop the wind up now. We've all bitten........
i flew a cap10 a couple of years ago (which seemed to be drama free - although it was in benign conditions and i believe its quite a forgiving one as taildraggers go) and i should have flown it again and got it signed off back then, but didnt..<<<<<
Ok sick bag, you can stop the wind up now. We've all bitten........
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver Island
SNS3Guppy:
I was not advising people not to get proper training, I was making an observation that there is a tendency for people to over state the difficulty of learning to fly tail wheel airplanes.
When I first started flying we were taught on tail wheel airplanes because that was all there was avalable.
I finished my license in 30 hours which was was what was required at that time.
You say::::
Differences are irrelevant, as are helicopters. What is relevant is the need to obtain proper training in the operation of conventional gear aircraft. Even the "easy" cub will kill you just as dead.
I say:::::
So will walking across a busy street, so will wanking to much, so will a lot of things.
What is your point?
I was not advising people not to get proper training, I was making an observation that there is a tendency for people to over state the difficulty of learning to fly tail wheel airplanes.
When I first started flying we were taught on tail wheel airplanes because that was all there was avalable.
I finished my license in 30 hours which was was what was required at that time.
You say::::
Differences are irrelevant, as are helicopters. What is relevant is the need to obtain proper training in the operation of conventional gear aircraft. Even the "easy" cub will kill you just as dead.
I say:::::
So will walking across a busy street, so will wanking to much, so will a lot of things.
What is your point?
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: the priory
fair point - it was cheap at the time! it belonged to a mate (who has an FI rating) but he's since sold it - shame!!!!!
would love to fly the cub actually. also, denham is near me, so i'll see what they've got...
robin - this post was just just intended to find a flying school with a taildragger where i can do some training asap - i've got better things to do that wind you up old son
would love to fly the cub actually. also, denham is near me, so i'll see what they've got...
robin - this post was just just intended to find a flying school with a taildragger where i can do some training asap - i've got better things to do that wind you up old son
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 1,286
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From: I have no idea but the view's great.
As this is PPrune I must point out that you will also need significant training and a sign-off for your Capital Letter Differences.
Cubs, Super and otherwise, are great fun. If Sibson isn't too far try NSF, but I'm sorry to inform you that they will make sure that you do it the right way rather than the cheap way.
Cubs, Super and otherwise, are great fun. If Sibson isn't too far try NSF, but I'm sorry to inform you that they will make sure that you do it the right way rather than the cheap way.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,218
Likes: 2
From: USA
I was not advising people not to get proper training, I was making an observation that there is a tendency for people to over state the difficulty of learning to fly tail wheel airplanes.
You say::::
Differences are irrelevant, as are helicopters. What is relevant is the need to obtain proper training in the operation of conventional gear aircraft. Even the "easy" cub will kill you just as dead.
I say:::::
So will walking across a busy street, so will wanking to much, so will a lot of things.
What is your point?
Differences are irrelevant, as are helicopters. What is relevant is the need to obtain proper training in the operation of conventional gear aircraft. Even the "easy" cub will kill you just as dead.
I say:::::
So will walking across a busy street, so will wanking to much, so will a lot of things.
What is your point?
Like the saying goes, the cub is safe and easy, it will only kill you slowly.
Fly Conventional Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,600
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From: Winchester
Interesting...I was reviewing The Compleat Taildragger Pilot today and Harvey S. Plourde who wrote it suggests more like 10hrs is a reasonable time to convert to conventional gear...covering everything, 3 pointers, wheelers, tarmac (if you fly from grass mainly), crosswinds and general handling to get the feel of the plane. Perhaps that is more realistic and comprehensive than the 5hrs suggested by most clubs.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver Island
The bottom line is there is no " one size fits all " answer as to how long it will take an individual to become safe enough to sign off on a conventional gear airplane.
The decision must be made by the instructor, so find one who is well known for their expertise in teaching on conventional gear machines.
That may save you time and money.
The decision must be made by the instructor, so find one who is well known for their expertise in teaching on conventional gear machines.
That may save you time and money.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 760
Likes: 411
From: not where I want to be
"The bottom line is there is no " one size fits all " answer as to how long it will take"
I quite agree - was just about to reply to Contacttower's post with my experience: I was told it would take less than 5 hours for my conversion on a Cub) but my recollection is that it took more like 6-7 hours, or thereabouts, before the instructor signed my book. As much as I wanted that signature I fully appreciated that he wouldn't sign until he felt I was ready for it. To me that signature was just a licence to learn, and I've a lot of learning still to do. To add to the story, another pilot did his conversion at around the same time as me, unfortunately for him he managed a spectacular crash after ground-looping the same Cub with, I think, a little less than 10 hours on type. Happily he was ok but the 'plane was a write-off and an example of just what can happen in an instant, particularly in a tail-dragger.
So maybe some (few) people will do it in an hour or so, others perhaps never will - where I fly from there are two or three licenced pilots converting to a taildragger that will possibly have more than 15 hours before being signed off, if at all. One may never (economically) get a rating. It's disapointing and frustrating for them - and for those of use who know them well - but it's another example that supports Chuck's post; in these cases the school is heeding that call and will only sign them out when they are ready for it, not at the magical 5 or 10 hour number.
I quite agree - was just about to reply to Contacttower's post with my experience: I was told it would take less than 5 hours for my conversion on a Cub) but my recollection is that it took more like 6-7 hours, or thereabouts, before the instructor signed my book. As much as I wanted that signature I fully appreciated that he wouldn't sign until he felt I was ready for it. To me that signature was just a licence to learn, and I've a lot of learning still to do. To add to the story, another pilot did his conversion at around the same time as me, unfortunately for him he managed a spectacular crash after ground-looping the same Cub with, I think, a little less than 10 hours on type. Happily he was ok but the 'plane was a write-off and an example of just what can happen in an instant, particularly in a tail-dragger.
So maybe some (few) people will do it in an hour or so, others perhaps never will - where I fly from there are two or three licenced pilots converting to a taildragger that will possibly have more than 15 hours before being signed off, if at all. One may never (economically) get a rating. It's disapointing and frustrating for them - and for those of use who know them well - but it's another example that supports Chuck's post; in these cases the school is heeding that call and will only sign them out when they are ready for it, not at the magical 5 or 10 hour number.