PLEASE READ THIS AND HELP SAVE GA IN THE UK - Save the IMCR
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Me too. Isnt it IMC every day in the UK? I cant remember my last flight that didnt have an element of IMC flight.
I will sell my plane if there is no sensible alternative.
I will sell my plane if there is no sensible alternative.
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Me too. Isnt it IMC every day in the UK? I cant remember my last flight that didnt have an element of IMC flight.
I will sell my plane if there is no sensible alternative.
I will sell my plane if there is no sensible alternative.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Strewth Bose-X I have no idea what that means but I wont really sell my plane if they change the rules. I will do what I always do, pay more and adapt because I love it.
On the day I cant afford th price they want me to pay then that is the day I will sell it but then I reckon I wont get a great price then as everyone will feel the same no doubt.
At the moment the Bonanza is safe because I do love the freedom of it sitting in the hangar waiting for me to go somewhere that I have not got time to go to.
Happy New Year!
On the day I cant afford th price they want me to pay then that is the day I will sell it but then I reckon I wont get a great price then as everyone will feel the same no doubt.
At the moment the Bonanza is safe because I do love the freedom of it sitting in the hangar waiting for me to go somewhere that I have not got time to go to.
Happy New Year!
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Most "IFR regulars" will just continue to fly in IMC under VFR.
That's what I will do.
However, I will get the full TKS system installed because under VFR one often doesn't get CAS transit which means one cannot always remain VMC on top, and icing then becomes a hazard for the enroute section.
Imagine crossing the Alps at FL129 (the highest Zurich will let you do because their Class C base is FL130), the OAT is -10C, and the tops are FL160.
The gotcha is the usual VFR one which is that one needs to be able to arrive "officially VFR" at the destination. With an airport that is on the coast, or inland with no real terrain, and which has some Class E/G around it, this is normally achieved as follows:
1) When the last enroute unit asks you to contact the airport, ack the request, say goodbye, but don't call the dest airport right away.
2) While still in the OCAS section, descend (over water if possible) to below the cloud
3) Make the initial call to the airport. No lies need to be told at this point because you really are VFR.
Similarly if departing:
1) Depart "VFR"
2) When well out of sight and OCAS, climb up through cloud to VMC
3) Call up the next unit - now you are really VFR again
That is how it's done all over the world. You have to be a good instrument pilot with impeccable navigation, otherwise you will get killed.
Then you get the more crazy pilots who will switch off their Mode C if they want to climb higher....
That's what I will do.
However, I will get the full TKS system installed because under VFR one often doesn't get CAS transit which means one cannot always remain VMC on top, and icing then becomes a hazard for the enroute section.
Imagine crossing the Alps at FL129 (the highest Zurich will let you do because their Class C base is FL130), the OAT is -10C, and the tops are FL160.
The gotcha is the usual VFR one which is that one needs to be able to arrive "officially VFR" at the destination. With an airport that is on the coast, or inland with no real terrain, and which has some Class E/G around it, this is normally achieved as follows:
1) When the last enroute unit asks you to contact the airport, ack the request, say goodbye, but don't call the dest airport right away.
2) While still in the OCAS section, descend (over water if possible) to below the cloud
3) Make the initial call to the airport. No lies need to be told at this point because you really are VFR.
Similarly if departing:
1) Depart "VFR"
2) When well out of sight and OCAS, climb up through cloud to VMC
3) Call up the next unit - now you are really VFR again
That is how it's done all over the world. You have to be a good instrument pilot with impeccable navigation, otherwise you will get killed.
Then you get the more crazy pilots who will switch off their Mode C if they want to climb higher....
Join Date: Apr 2004
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What a sad state of affairs it has come to when you have to fly like this rather than being honest and flying within the law. Its pathetic what these regulators come out with.
I could quite accept that they may not allow any new applications or that there is no extension of the coverage of the IMC but for goodness sake, to take away a rating that someone has spent good money earning and for no good reason but something called harmonisation is scandalous.
I could quite accept that they may not allow any new applications or that there is no extension of the coverage of the IMC but for goodness sake, to take away a rating that someone has spent good money earning and for no good reason but something called harmonisation is scandalous.
Fly Conventional Gear
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I've just received a very nice letter from the CAA (in reply to one I sent to them before Christmas) and the essentials of it are this:
The responsibility for FCL in Europe moving to EASA is a political decision and beyond the CAA. It is taking place under a revision of EC regulation 1592/2002.
Now that EASA is set to take over FCL the CAA, and the other 26 member states are helping EASA with the drafting of the new rules appertaining to FCL.
Under EASA there will be no national ratings so in the long term the only way to save the IMC rating will be for Europe to adopt it. The CAA is pushing EASA very hard for this but are one voice amongst 27 so may not succeed.
I know most already know all that but it just underlines that our dear CAA is doing the best it can for us.
The responsibility for FCL in Europe moving to EASA is a political decision and beyond the CAA. It is taking place under a revision of EC regulation 1592/2002.
Now that EASA is set to take over FCL the CAA, and the other 26 member states are helping EASA with the drafting of the new rules appertaining to FCL.
Under EASA there will be no national ratings so in the long term the only way to save the IMC rating will be for Europe to adopt it. The CAA is pushing EASA very hard for this but are one voice amongst 27 so may not succeed.
I know most already know all that but it just underlines that our dear CAA is doing the best it can for us.
Which is why, unless a EU IMCR or Class2 IR is accepted at least in concept form, this political decision will require a political challenge.
There is no justification in the withdrawal of exisiting safety-enhancing privileges merely for 'harmonisation' purposes. Until EASA accepts that, they can only be considered as manifestly unfit for purpose.
There is no justification in the withdrawal of exisiting safety-enhancing privileges merely for 'harmonisation' purposes. Until EASA accepts that, they can only be considered as manifestly unfit for purpose.
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Join Date: May 2001
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The web site for the campaign to save the IMC rating
www.ukimc.org
The petition
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IMC-Rating/?ref=imc-rating
www.ukimc.org
The petition
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IMC-Rating/?ref=imc-rating
Thread Starter
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Support for the IMCr gathers pace!
20 more signatures on the petition and it will be in the second page of the most supported petitions currently running.
Some have criticised the petition.
However, the support for the petition is a window for what pilots really think - not just the usual suspects on here, but the wider pilot community.
Thank you for your support.
The IMC rating is now safe for the next four years, thanks to the support of the CAA and EASA.
The debate is underway what shape or form the IMCr will take in four years time, or perhaps even sooner.
Please continue to give us your support at www.ukimc.org.
Here are some good reasons:
1. We will be completely transparent with you, there are no hidden agendas, all we care about is at the very least preserving your IMC rating rights - you know that license you trained hard for and spent many thousands of pounds obtaining,
2. Fighting for a rating that has an impecable safety record so that other pilots in the future will be less likely to kill themselves.
3. and there is no subscritpion involved, we just ask for your support please.
Thank you.
Some have criticised the petition.
However, the support for the petition is a window for what pilots really think - not just the usual suspects on here, but the wider pilot community.
Thank you for your support.
The IMC rating is now safe for the next four years, thanks to the support of the CAA and EASA.
The debate is underway what shape or form the IMCr will take in four years time, or perhaps even sooner.
Please continue to give us your support at www.ukimc.org.
Here are some good reasons:
1. We will be completely transparent with you, there are no hidden agendas, all we care about is at the very least preserving your IMC rating rights - you know that license you trained hard for and spent many thousands of pounds obtaining,
2. Fighting for a rating that has an impecable safety record so that other pilots in the future will be less likely to kill themselves.
3. and there is no subscritpion involved, we just ask for your support please.
Thank you.
I am glad to report that the Master of the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators has encourage the Guild's membership to register their support through the ukimc.org website.
To learn more about the Guild's function, see www.gapan.org . You will not find a more highly qualified and experienced group of aviators in the UK!
To learn more about the Guild's function, see www.gapan.org . You will not find a more highly qualified and experienced group of aviators in the UK!
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Save the IMCR
Great start Fuji,
We need to be aware that the CAA are on the side of the Angels and will not let the IMCR go down in flames. Also EASA are not as bad as they might be painted, there is support for a form of PPL instrument qualification that is not the full (perhaps sightly over-blown IR) that we know in Europe.
The main anti's are not in the main the Eurocrats the principal opposition is coming from the Commercial operators and professional pilot associations that coupled with a complete lack of understanding of GA operations in Northern European non-regulated airspace by some of the EASA people means we have an uphill battle. The professional pilots civil & military along with the airlines were those who predicted mayhem when the IMCR was mooted and introduced - they were wrong then and are wrong again.
The IMCR had served us well but does need a little updating and putting on a bit of a pedistal if we are to convince the anti brigade. The JAA CPL/IR training has been set out in a modular form; we should think of promoting a new advanced PPL training scheme for restricted IFR operations (not valid for use in Class A airspace) giving privileges similar to the present IMC, Night and Multi Ratings. Modules could be taken direct from the CPL/IR syllabus with say the Departure and en-rote modules being mandatory and any 2 or possibly 3 others from the following 5 non precision approaches, precision approaches, GPS approaches, night operations & complex type/multi engine operations. I believe that such an approach would be politically acceptable to the majority with no loss of face by any party and we would have a better structured training course which would benefit the GA training industry.
I know that the CAA are thinking along these lines, hopefully IAOPA are going down a similar path. With such an approach we could demonstrate that European PPL's can be just as professional as some ATPL's from elsewhere and the pilot of say a G reg Arrow will be treated with as much, if not more, respect as his/her P(C)PL/IR counterparts in the "Land of the Free".
We need to be aware that the CAA are on the side of the Angels and will not let the IMCR go down in flames. Also EASA are not as bad as they might be painted, there is support for a form of PPL instrument qualification that is not the full (perhaps sightly over-blown IR) that we know in Europe.
The main anti's are not in the main the Eurocrats the principal opposition is coming from the Commercial operators and professional pilot associations that coupled with a complete lack of understanding of GA operations in Northern European non-regulated airspace by some of the EASA people means we have an uphill battle. The professional pilots civil & military along with the airlines were those who predicted mayhem when the IMCR was mooted and introduced - they were wrong then and are wrong again.
The IMCR had served us well but does need a little updating and putting on a bit of a pedistal if we are to convince the anti brigade. The JAA CPL/IR training has been set out in a modular form; we should think of promoting a new advanced PPL training scheme for restricted IFR operations (not valid for use in Class A airspace) giving privileges similar to the present IMC, Night and Multi Ratings. Modules could be taken direct from the CPL/IR syllabus with say the Departure and en-rote modules being mandatory and any 2 or possibly 3 others from the following 5 non precision approaches, precision approaches, GPS approaches, night operations & complex type/multi engine operations. I believe that such an approach would be politically acceptable to the majority with no loss of face by any party and we would have a better structured training course which would benefit the GA training industry.
I know that the CAA are thinking along these lines, hopefully IAOPA are going down a similar path. With such an approach we could demonstrate that European PPL's can be just as professional as some ATPL's from elsewhere and the pilot of say a G reg Arrow will be treated with as much, if not more, respect as his/her P(C)PL/IR counterparts in the "Land of the Free".
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Petition
Have now tried three times to add my name to the Downing St petition.
It asks for my e-mail address and postal address and promises me an e-mail which I have to reply to if I want to confirm my support for the petition (though all this doesn't seem to filter out M Mouse and his fellow petitioners).
No Downing St e-mail has arrived.
Note - I'm not a complete idiot because . . .
SD
It asks for my e-mail address and postal address and promises me an e-mail which I have to reply to if I want to confirm my support for the petition (though all this doesn't seem to filter out M Mouse and his fellow petitioners).
No Downing St e-mail has arrived.
Note - I'm not a complete idiot because . . .
- An early job of mine was designing computer hardware, software and firmware;
- I've had e-mail accounts since the internet was first invented;
- My e-mail accounts haven't been interrupted;
- I always check the SPAM before deleting (saddo!)
SD
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Phew, finally got to the end of the posts. My BP has been up and down, depression, laughter and frustation amongst other emotions. Thanks to all - I wish I knew who some of you characters really are but I suppose it does not really matter. Well done for the website UKIMC.org. The pressure must be kept up and I can see many doing so but 4 years can pass remarkably quickly. I too would fly as necessary but remaing in the spirit if not the letter would be my preferred approach if the rating goes. By then the average GPS would be capable of solving many of the perceived difficulties for those who had a reasonable skill in cloud. I still have some IMC students due to finish next month and they really are keen to get the real basic skills and they often do better on partial panel! Viva the rating! It has saved my bacon a few times in microlight and GA over the years. 'Nuff said!
This response just in from No10:
The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has been successful in ensuring that the UK IMC rating will remain in place during the four-year transition period, from the national regulations on flight crew licensing to the regulatory system governed by European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). EASA has agreed to establish a rulemaking group to consider proposals for a similar rating at the European level. The Department for Transport will be working closely with the CAA and EASA to identify a solution, prior to the end of the transition period, to ensure that the privileges of IMC rating holders are protected.
Which isn't bad at all. No real news, except that the DfT will be involved with CAA and EASA.
The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has been successful in ensuring that the UK IMC rating will remain in place during the four-year transition period, from the national regulations on flight crew licensing to the regulatory system governed by European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). EASA has agreed to establish a rulemaking group to consider proposals for a similar rating at the European level. The Department for Transport will be working closely with the CAA and EASA to identify a solution, prior to the end of the transition period, to ensure that the privileges of IMC rating holders are protected.
Which isn't bad at all. No real news, except that the DfT will be involved with CAA and EASA.