Skywatch - hazard?????
Guest
Posts: n/a
Skywatch - hazard?????
Did anyone see the TV news coverage of the 'Skywatch' scheme in the Milton Keynes area.
Apparently there is a group of private microlight pilots who are such aces that they have time to monitor the ground for activities such as people building unauthorised bonfires and then to report this by radio to the police for investigation.
Does anyone else view this as being a bad thing generally? I would prefer all private pilots to focus on flying the plane, seeing and avoiding, navigating and communicating on aviation matters.
I thought that this was a well meaning but potentially fatally misguided scheme and the police should know better than to take part in this.
Apparently there is a group of private microlight pilots who are such aces that they have time to monitor the ground for activities such as people building unauthorised bonfires and then to report this by radio to the police for investigation.
Does anyone else view this as being a bad thing generally? I would prefer all private pilots to focus on flying the plane, seeing and avoiding, navigating and communicating on aviation matters.
I thought that this was a well meaning but potentially fatally misguided scheme and the police should know better than to take part in this.
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am sure that the police are eternally grateful for such useless tittle tattle, no doubt they are so highly trained that they can give precise and accurate detail that would lead to prosecution whilst also flying within the privilages of their licences.
I am all for any pilot reporting their suspicions of a serious incident or accident and letting the law follow it up, but these tossers are worse than traffic wardens.
I am all for any pilot reporting their suspicions of a serious incident or accident and letting the law follow it up, but these tossers are worse than traffic wardens.
If these "skywatchers" are reporting things like bonfires imagine the PR that the NIMBYS will get from it never mind the abuse the ordinary pilot will get when somebody is prosecuted after any light aircraft has passed overhead.
When any aircraft passes overhead my house I usually bring out the handheld Icom but now maybe it will be the handheld and the shotgun!!!!!
When any aircraft passes overhead my house I usually bring out the handheld Icom but now maybe it will be the handheld and the shotgun!!!!!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: .
Age: 37
Posts: 649
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can't help but think people are being a little harsh here. I have read about Skywatch before, I think it's a great idea, after all here is a group of people who are merely wanting to help out in life. Surely that isn't a bad thing? There again the Fluffy Liberal and Outraged Tory types may complain about "eye in the sky" and "Big Brother" etc. etc. etc. and the "extra carbon emissions" (sic) from the aircraft
I can understand F3G's original point though about concentrating on the flying. This I can't help but wonder about. There again if someone else is in the aircraft doing the spotting, perhaps that would be more sensible, and certainly safer.
A good idea, though, in my opinion.
P.S. Solar... you mention that "When any aircraft passes overhead my house I usually bring out the handheld Icom but now maybe it will be the handheld and the shotgun"... I fear you may be a NIMBY yourself?
Smithy
I can understand F3G's original point though about concentrating on the flying. This I can't help but wonder about. There again if someone else is in the aircraft doing the spotting, perhaps that would be more sensible, and certainly safer.
A good idea, though, in my opinion.
P.S. Solar... you mention that "When any aircraft passes overhead my house I usually bring out the handheld Icom but now maybe it will be the handheld and the shotgun"... I fear you may be a NIMBY yourself?
Smithy
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I expect these microlight pilots have such an inflated idea of self importance as "police observer" aircraft, that they actually wear pretend police uniforms and epaulettes..
Fly Conventional Gear
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Winchester
Posts: 1,600
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually sounds like quite a good organisation.
How could his be fatally misguided? Some may question the pilot's motives (self importance and all that) but this surely can't do much harm.
fatally misguided scheme and the police should know better than to take part in this.
niknak.
As Smithy said, a tad harsh. These
were
It's not all about
reporting bonfires. These people have saved lives on more than one occasion and I for one am quite happy for them to assist. (How many PPLs give up because their post-PPL flying has no meaning or purpose?)
As Smithy said, a tad harsh. These
Originally Posted by niknak
...tossers...
...called by Aberdeen Coastguard to help locate an angler who had fallen into a small loch 5nm south of Elgin and was trapped in the water up to his neck.
The angler was located and the decision taken by Coastguard to breach the loch edge to lower the water level in order to rescue him. The Sky Watch aircraft was asked to stay on scene to monitor the flood water as it flowed toward Elgin heading north, in case of danger to people, property or livestock.
The angler was eventually released and taken to Inverness by the Helimed helicopter where his condition was later reported as satisfactory.
The angler was located and the decision taken by Coastguard to breach the loch edge to lower the water level in order to rescue him. The Sky Watch aircraft was asked to stay on scene to monitor the flood water as it flowed toward Elgin heading north, in case of danger to people, property or livestock.
The angler was eventually released and taken to Inverness by the Helimed helicopter where his condition was later reported as satisfactory.
tossers
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is not neccesary to belong to a group / body to save lives or indeed to report incidents such as those recently quoted.
You are say pottering along in your aircraft (whether it be GA or Microlight or whatever) and you spot some poor unfortunate clinging to the hull of their upturned dinghy. What do you do? Do you fly idly along and ignore them or even pretend you havent seen them?
No..of course you dont. You do what we all would and report the incident to the nearest ATSU as indeed a great many of us have done on occasion.
I just dont see the need to be a member of some pseudo organisation in order to safeguard the lives of others. However, I am aware that some people do feel the need to belong to something. Not quite sure why though
You are say pottering along in your aircraft (whether it be GA or Microlight or whatever) and you spot some poor unfortunate clinging to the hull of their upturned dinghy. What do you do? Do you fly idly along and ignore them or even pretend you havent seen them?
No..of course you dont. You do what we all would and report the incident to the nearest ATSU as indeed a great many of us have done on occasion.
I just dont see the need to be a member of some pseudo organisation in order to safeguard the lives of others. However, I am aware that some people do feel the need to belong to something. Not quite sure why though
Hi Capn Smithy
I've been called a lot of things in my day but that is definitely a first.
I think that skywatch is a great idea when used for serious matters but not as suggested reporting bonfires unless they constituted danger.
The point I tried to make was that if the word gets out that pilots are reporting such things then most if not all will be tarred with the same "tout" brush which where I come from is not a life enhancing prospect.
PS I usually bring out the handheld to ask the pilot/s if they would like to drop in for a cuppa and that includes yourself.
I've been called a lot of things in my day but that is definitely a first.
I think that skywatch is a great idea when used for serious matters but not as suggested reporting bonfires unless they constituted danger.
The point I tried to make was that if the word gets out that pilots are reporting such things then most if not all will be tarred with the same "tout" brush which where I come from is not a life enhancing prospect.
PS I usually bring out the handheld to ask the pilot/s if they would like to drop in for a cuppa and that includes yourself.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Well North of the M25
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It could be a good thing.... It could be a very bad thing. The reason is that it depends on the individual pilot.. I have spoken to some senior members of the organisation before. As long as they have a close relationship with the local Rescue services - AND listen out on 121.5 to remain clear of the area when the Sea King/ Helimed turn up, it COULD be an asset. Unfortunatly, human nature when the adrenalin gets going is to help as much as possible.. Therein lies the problem. In trying to do what they honestly believe is the right thing, they could well get in the way. Depending on your area of Ops, dangerously. Deconfliction between fixed wing aircraft searching an area, and a military rotary wing asset, who believes they are being protected by a TDA, also searching the ground is a definate issue that will be difficult to iron out.
T Green
T Green
Guest
Posts: n/a
How could his be fatally misguided?
If they lose SA due to their observing task and have a middair or some other fatal outcome.
BTW I was referring specifically to the Milton Keynes exercise, not Skywatch in general, link below gives more info
http://www.mk-news.co.uk/mknews-news....asp?ID=139931
If they lose SA due to their observing task and have a middair or some other fatal outcome.
BTW I was referring specifically to the Milton Keynes exercise, not Skywatch in general, link below gives more info
http://www.mk-news.co.uk/mknews-news....asp?ID=139931
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just going of at a slight tangent, I watched one of those police programmes recently on the BBC, featuring in that episode the Humberside police. What struck me was the resources they were using to solve relatively minor crimes. The police helicopter spotted two youngsters break into a parked home delivery van and steal "a parcel" from the front seat.
They tracked the youngsters to a house on a rough housing estate, and eventually the ground-based police (in quantity) entered the house, recovered the parcel, it contained a pair of ladies boots. The thirteen or fourteen year- old was taken in, given a warning and sent home. As a policeman interviewed said, the lad will be out thieving tomorrow, and the next day, and implied that the police actions were somewhat futile.
I fully accept that the police should seek to stop or solve crime at any opportunity, but I wonder what the cost was of using the force helicopter to solve that particular crime?
Surely there has to be proportionality, and expensive assets such as air support used to solve the more dangerous incidents, like the high-speed car thefts, or other major incidents?
I guess this does not really help you with your "Skywatch" discussion, but on the subject of microlights wandering around in urban areas, earlier this year my wife and myself witnessed a quite frightening incident from our back garden where a microlight flew across the approach to a local military base that has intensive helio activity just as two helicopters were making an approach in formation, and both had to take serious evasive action to avoid a mid-air. This was just inside the edge of the circle on the charts denoting the area of intense activity, but if he was a local, he should have known about the low-level military traffic patterns in the area. The microlight appeared to "pop-up" from very low level right infront of the two military helios.
So, I'm not convinced about "amateurs" ( in the context of air-ground observation for crime) getting involved looking for problems on the ground. Leave it to the professionals, and concentrate on looking what is happening around you in your immediate airspace please!
EGCA
They tracked the youngsters to a house on a rough housing estate, and eventually the ground-based police (in quantity) entered the house, recovered the parcel, it contained a pair of ladies boots. The thirteen or fourteen year- old was taken in, given a warning and sent home. As a policeman interviewed said, the lad will be out thieving tomorrow, and the next day, and implied that the police actions were somewhat futile.
I fully accept that the police should seek to stop or solve crime at any opportunity, but I wonder what the cost was of using the force helicopter to solve that particular crime?
Surely there has to be proportionality, and expensive assets such as air support used to solve the more dangerous incidents, like the high-speed car thefts, or other major incidents?
I guess this does not really help you with your "Skywatch" discussion, but on the subject of microlights wandering around in urban areas, earlier this year my wife and myself witnessed a quite frightening incident from our back garden where a microlight flew across the approach to a local military base that has intensive helio activity just as two helicopters were making an approach in formation, and both had to take serious evasive action to avoid a mid-air. This was just inside the edge of the circle on the charts denoting the area of intense activity, but if he was a local, he should have known about the low-level military traffic patterns in the area. The microlight appeared to "pop-up" from very low level right infront of the two military helios.
So, I'm not convinced about "amateurs" ( in the context of air-ground observation for crime) getting involved looking for problems on the ground. Leave it to the professionals, and concentrate on looking what is happening around you in your immediate airspace please!
EGCA
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a risk PR wise that there could be a backlash, if promoted badly, against GA if it's perceived as being a spy in the sky. The converse is all the good potential 'pilot spots lost child' type stories.
Difficult call really....would you prefer to be watched by occasional microlight pilots or by permanent UAV surveillance ?
Difficult call really....would you prefer to be watched by occasional microlight pilots or by permanent UAV surveillance ?
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No one disputes the usefulness of skywatch for search and rescue purposes or similar emergencies. But "when I were a lad" telling tales was frowned upon usually leaving one with a clip round the ear whilst those complained about went scot free. Using aircraft for snooping purposes is symptomatic of this big brother reporting mentality we have all become indoctrinated in. Whether it be shopping your neighbours or friends to the Inland Revenue, social services or whoever purely on the basis of self opinion often tempered by jealousy or envy, and these days usually encouraged and assisted by the use of specially promulgated "telling tales " phone numbers.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Niknak
You may have heard of another volunteer organisation. I don't think they or the Skywatchers are, to quote you :
but your less than erudite comments would suggest that you might just be.
CFN1
You may have heard of another volunteer organisation. I don't think they or the Skywatchers are, to quote you :
tossers
CFN1
Fly Conventional Gear
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Winchester
Posts: 1,600
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is, I admit, not really an accurate comparasion but the Civil Air Patrol in America uses mostly 'amateurs' and is a now a huge organisation that helps with everything from obversation of drug running and illegal immigrants to shifting aid to natural disasters. I think the danger of situational awareness loss and the other risks like 'poor GA image' are rather remote and sound more like eye ball rolling and even dare I say it anti-microlight feeling on the part of posters.
OK in reality maybe they won't be much use...but I don't see why people seem to have a problem with them.
OK in reality maybe they won't be much use...but I don't see why people seem to have a problem with them.