Skywatch - hazard?????
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I must alert my local constabulary; I believe that they require 1500 hours P1 and provide two trained observers. This is clearly a waste of tax payers money and any PPL could carry out a search in both an effective and safe manner without all of that other nonsense.
Sorry, I just don't quite get it. If you're out and about and spot something (and I mean something worthwhile, not a bonfire) then you let someone know. If a dedicated search is required then that's a job for someone who has been trained to do it. Or am I missing something?
Sorry, I just don't quite get it. If you're out and about and spot something (and I mean something worthwhile, not a bonfire) then you let someone know. If a dedicated search is required then that's a job for someone who has been trained to do it. Or am I missing something?
Yes you are missing something. There comes a point when an official search is called off due to financial or operational reasons. The person (or whatever) may still be missing and may still have an outside chance of survival. The authorities don't always wish to make it known to everybody that there "might" be a life out there to save for fear of endangering too many "do gooders" However, a "known" amatuer group with well advised (and often trained) pilots to step in if they can to carry on the search for a while can't be a bad thing? There are also things that you wouldn't dream of calling out the authorities to find, such as missing livestock, pets or stolen trucks ect. Nobody is asked to fly beyond their capabilities and are in fact discouraged from flying too low or placing themselves in danger. If you have a PPL you should be capable of restraint and be responsible for your own safety. I'm not aware of any Skywatch pilot having crashed or causing a nuisance during official searches or whatever. Yes we would all report something obvious if we saw it ... but we're unlikely to be looking out for anything in particular THAT IS THE POINT! I've been flying for 20 years and apart from a caravan on fire, have never seen anything remotely worth reporting. However, I've seen the occasional thing that has made me wonder (and I don't mean criminal or vandal) but not reported as they were probably nothing ..... but what if I'd known different because I'd been asked to look? I'm no snitch, and as far as looking for criminal activity? well that leaves me cold. But if I were asked to look out for kids that have been known to break onto a certain bit of railway track or something then I'm more than willing to help.
SS
Some fair points, Shortstripper but, there again, you haven't yet been called upon to assist. Have you?
I do not believe that a search would be called off while they
.
Do the authorities look for missing livestock? YEP.
Do they look for stolen trucks? YEP.
There are several extremely well-trained volunteer groups who assist with searches and rescues. I just don't know what the base level of training is for the Skywatch pilots, that's why I'm asking the questions; no hobby horses or axes to grind. I'm just curious.
I do suspect that there are those who will, like Neighbourhood Watch, take it too far and try to be part-time police officers for what they see as their patch.
The whole idea seems quite admirable I just have reservations about the level of training and the types of work that they believe they're looking out for.
I might not even baulk at the idea of an involvement I'd just like more of an idea of what they think their role is.
I do not believe that a search would be called off while they
may still have an outside chance of survival
Do the authorities look for missing livestock? YEP.
Do they look for stolen trucks? YEP.
There are several extremely well-trained volunteer groups who assist with searches and rescues. I just don't know what the base level of training is for the Skywatch pilots, that's why I'm asking the questions; no hobby horses or axes to grind. I'm just curious.
I do suspect that there are those who will, like Neighbourhood Watch, take it too far and try to be part-time police officers for what they see as their patch.
The whole idea seems quite admirable I just have reservations about the level of training and the types of work that they believe they're looking out for.
I might not even baulk at the idea of an involvement I'd just like more of an idea of what they think their role is.
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No I haven't been called to assist ... and be honest I'm beginning to doubt that I will? Ho hum
Well they do! As an example (not in the UK I grant you) what about Steve Fossett? They called off the official search but stated that he could still be alive. It's the same here, the public purse will only pay for a finite amount of money to search. After a "sensible" period the search will be downgraded. This is often before "all hope" is lost, but after "all probabability" is reached.
The base level for Skywatch pilots is basically just a PPL, but 250 hours is called for before you "might" be called upon to help. Before that, you can just observe and report. They have a pretty good guide to SAR techniques and do hold excercises to test your skills (or not). Not great training I'll admit, but like I said, as a PPL, you "should" be able to self regulate.
As far as the original post goes ... It's funny how we are happy to accuse the press of poor reporting when it comes to aviation accidents ect, but are happy to go along with them when they suggest pilot ineptitude, big brotherism or whatever backs up our own beliefs. Do you really think that Skywatch and the police would advocate microlight pilots breaching the ANO by flying low level over housing estates to pick up on the odd petty criminal? C'mon, get real!
SS
I do not believe that a search would be called off while they
Quote:
may still have an outside chance of survival
Quote:
may still have an outside chance of survival
The base level for Skywatch pilots is basically just a PPL, but 250 hours is called for before you "might" be called upon to help. Before that, you can just observe and report. They have a pretty good guide to SAR techniques and do hold excercises to test your skills (or not). Not great training I'll admit, but like I said, as a PPL, you "should" be able to self regulate.
As far as the original post goes ... It's funny how we are happy to accuse the press of poor reporting when it comes to aviation accidents ect, but are happy to go along with them when they suggest pilot ineptitude, big brotherism or whatever backs up our own beliefs. Do you really think that Skywatch and the police would advocate microlight pilots breaching the ANO by flying low level over housing estates to pick up on the odd petty criminal? C'mon, get real!
SS
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Short Stripper
You wrote...As far as the original post goes ... It's funny how we are happy to accuse the press of poor reporting when it comes to aviation accidents ect, but are happy to go along with them when they suggest pilot ineptitude, big brotherism or whatever backs up our own beliefs. Do you really think that Skywatch and the police would advocate microlight pilots breaching the ANO by flying low level over housing estates to pick up on the odd petty criminal? C'mon, get real!
I never said or implied the above, please read my post, here it is for your convenience...
Did anyone see the TV news coverage of the 'Skywatch' scheme in the Milton Keynes area.
Apparently there is a group of private microlight pilots who are such aces that they have time to monitor the ground for activities such as people building unauthorised bonfires and then to report this by radio to the police for investigation.
Does anyone else view this as being a bad thing generally? I would prefer all private pilots to focus on flying the plane, seeing and avoiding, navigating and communicating on aviation matters.
I thought that this was a well meaning but potentially fatally misguided scheme and the police should know better than to take part in this.
I think you owe me an apology for your comment or should at least delete it.
You wrote...As far as the original post goes ... It's funny how we are happy to accuse the press of poor reporting when it comes to aviation accidents ect, but are happy to go along with them when they suggest pilot ineptitude, big brotherism or whatever backs up our own beliefs. Do you really think that Skywatch and the police would advocate microlight pilots breaching the ANO by flying low level over housing estates to pick up on the odd petty criminal? C'mon, get real!
I never said or implied the above, please read my post, here it is for your convenience...
Did anyone see the TV news coverage of the 'Skywatch' scheme in the Milton Keynes area.
Apparently there is a group of private microlight pilots who are such aces that they have time to monitor the ground for activities such as people building unauthorised bonfires and then to report this by radio to the police for investigation.
Does anyone else view this as being a bad thing generally? I would prefer all private pilots to focus on flying the plane, seeing and avoiding, navigating and communicating on aviation matters.
I thought that this was a well meaning but potentially fatally misguided scheme and the police should know better than to take part in this.
I think you owe me an apology for your comment or should at least delete it.
There is a pretty big gulf between the Civil Air Patrol in the USA and these guys flying microlights around MK (yes I know Skywatch goes much further than that but am looking at the narrow point that started this thread).
I fly with a CAP member in Colorado and their role (and I believe that the C182s they fly are actually owned by the CAP but flown by amateur volunteers) are such things as looking for lost hikers in the vast rugged, mountainous areas of Colorado, searching for Steve Fosset etc.
I think the realarive sizes of the countries means that there ctivities are more necessary and essential in the vast spaces of the USA. There may well be suitable applications in Scotland, Wales, the Lakes and around the coast though.
If anybody suggested they go look for illegal bonfires in the suburbs of Denver I think the'd be given a black eye.
Maybe with the amount of wickedness afoot there is more room for Skywatch and for it's members to carry out appropriate tasks ... but snitching on bonfires, please.
I fly with a CAP member in Colorado and their role (and I believe that the C182s they fly are actually owned by the CAP but flown by amateur volunteers) are such things as looking for lost hikers in the vast rugged, mountainous areas of Colorado, searching for Steve Fosset etc.
I think the realarive sizes of the countries means that there ctivities are more necessary and essential in the vast spaces of the USA. There may well be suitable applications in Scotland, Wales, the Lakes and around the coast though.
If anybody suggested they go look for illegal bonfires in the suburbs of Denver I think the'd be given a black eye.
Maybe with the amount of wickedness afoot there is more room for Skywatch and for it's members to carry out appropriate tasks ... but snitching on bonfires, please.
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but snitching on bonfires, please.
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J.A.F.O.. Sorry, I thought it was a proposal for the Constabulary to have someone fly their aircraft around on a PPL. I clearly misread the task as aerial work. Such rare generosity.
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Sorry F3G's,
It wasn't your post I meant to pick on, but rather the way the thread developed. You were a little to blame with the sliightly condescending way you described "a group of private microlight pilots who are such aces that they have time to monitor the ground for activities such as people building unauthorised bonfires", but to be fair you didn't mention low level flying over housing estates ... that came later. I can see the point you make, but to be honest I just think that the press will report such things in whatever way they see fit. They can easily make Skywatch look a really useful tool, but if the mood takes, they can easily make them look like a bunch of busybodies snooping on us and reporting back to big brother. I just think we should all know better and take such reports at face value, be they in favour or against.
SS
It wasn't your post I meant to pick on, but rather the way the thread developed. You were a little to blame with the sliightly condescending way you described "a group of private microlight pilots who are such aces that they have time to monitor the ground for activities such as people building unauthorised bonfires", but to be fair you didn't mention low level flying over housing estates ... that came later. I can see the point you make, but to be honest I just think that the press will report such things in whatever way they see fit. They can easily make Skywatch look a really useful tool, but if the mood takes, they can easily make them look like a bunch of busybodies snooping on us and reporting back to big brother. I just think we should all know better and take such reports at face value, be they in favour or against.
SS
Last edited by shortstripper; 26th Oct 2007 at 19:25.
GBZ
Sorry, my sarcasm often fails to hit the mark. I was just wondering why pilots with very little specific training and no minimum hours requirement just the right attitude thought they were able to carry out the task that the professionals require 1500 hours for.
Sorry, my sarcasm often fails to hit the mark. I was just wondering why pilots with very little specific training and no minimum hours requirement just the right attitude thought they were able to carry out the task that the professionals require 1500 hours for.
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There are several extremely well-trained volunteer groups who assist with searches and rescues. I just don't know what the base level of training is for the Skywatch pilots, that's why I'm asking the questions; no hobby horses or axes to grind. I'm just curious.
The information is written by Tony Cowen who is in one of the BBC videos posted above.
Tony was the Chief Pilot for the Cleveland Police Air Support Section with previous experience during his time in the military so has all the knowledge and experience to ensure people who engage in Skywatch have the relevant information and knowledge to carry out the operations safely.
Skywatch carry out a number of training exercises to help those who wish to offer their time and aircraft, to carry out their observations in-line with agreed local procedures as well as complying with the ANO.
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Skywatch - BBC InsideOut North - full length article
This is the longer length (9 min) version of a news item video I posted earlier. Click the link and when the video window opens, click on the bar about three fifths along. The Skywatch article starts at 19mins 10secs into the programme.
Skywatch video item - BBC InsideOut North October 22nd 2007
A bit dissappointing - especially when the reporter makes a big deal about flying over his old house. IMHO Skywatch could have used their 9 mins of fame to promote what they aim to do better.
Skywatch video item - BBC InsideOut North October 22nd 2007
A bit dissappointing - especially when the reporter makes a big deal about flying over his old house. IMHO Skywatch could have used their 9 mins of fame to promote what they aim to do better.
