Confusion over logging time...Again.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
if I'd gone out and bought my own I would have been within my rights (though stupid) to have flown it straight off.
I teach for fun, I am not an hours builder and after the first couple of thousand hours it becomes a pain keeping the logbook up to date. So I only log the P1 time when I am P1. If I am doing Insurance checks etc then I am happy for the student to be P1, if I am doing differences training then I am P1 and those differences could be anything from a tail-wheel on the chippy to a checkout for someone moving from a C152 to a PA28. I don't believe in the hours builders tricks of hour long flights moving between types, just sufficient time to be safe. Most people this is a few circuits.
I really don't understand the hang up with logging time, is it an ego thing that all your time in the air must be P1? I only ever look at my total time as I view every moment I am in the air as a learning experience.
Guest
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I thought so, the instructor thought so, and the club hiring to me definitely thought so. I logged it P/UT. But there's no PA28 rating
Thread Starter
Fly Conventional Gear
Joined: May 2007
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From: Winchester
It is 6 minutes, not 12.....basic maths, 60 divided by 10 = 6
is it an ego thing that all your time in the air must be P1?
Joined: Apr 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: Surrey, UK ;
Was recently in the States and flying with an Instructor (who essentailly was there because he know the area, where the best sights were and what the proceedures were to get flight following, transit zones etc).
I logged P1, coz I wasn't receiving instruction and was the sole manipulator of the controls.
He logged P1 because he was the ultimate commander had everything gone wrong and he intervened to save us.
That is exactly the way the FAA decree it should be - two people can book P1 at the same time.
We had a lengthy discussion about what the rules say and apparently everybody had the same discussions we are having here. Eventually 3-4 years ago the FAA issued a precise and clear definition as above.
No arguments or repetetive (although interesting) threads.
I logged P1, coz I wasn't receiving instruction and was the sole manipulator of the controls.
He logged P1 because he was the ultimate commander had everything gone wrong and he intervened to save us.
That is exactly the way the FAA decree it should be - two people can book P1 at the same time.
We had a lengthy discussion about what the rules say and apparently everybody had the same discussions we are having here. Eventually 3-4 years ago the FAA issued a precise and clear definition as above.
No arguments or repetetive (although interesting) threads.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
"for someone moving from a C152 to a PA28"
That's not Differences Training, thats just being talking ballast !
That's not Differences Training, thats just being talking ballast !
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Bradford
Cock ups down below.
I see, then how did he manage to taxi the B thing in the first place ?!!
I can't believe that a PPL worth his corn can't go from a C150 to a PA28 without all this fuss.
Going to tailwheel from tricycle is a whole new world and needs to be treat as such, now that can have illuminating moments for both parties.
I can't believe that a PPL worth his corn can't go from a C150 to a PA28 without all this fuss.
Going to tailwheel from tricycle is a whole new world and needs to be treat as such, now that can have illuminating moments for both parties.
Joined: May 2001
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From: 75N 16E
It is amazing a new aeroplane ever gets developed. Heaven forbid having to move to a completely new aeroplane without "Differences training".
I guess the Airbus computer which runs the 380 sim can claim P1 then...
I guess the Airbus computer which runs the 380 sim can claim P1 then...
Guest
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Differences (turbo, pressurised, tailwheel, prop, gear, >140kts, etc) training is mandatory, but having an instructor convert you between different types within a class does not appear to be so and is not differences training.
Differences training, I presume, must be conducted by an instructor and will be logged as PUT. Converting to a type in a class need not be done by an instructor but if it is maybe logged at PUT.
Differences training, I presume, must be conducted by an instructor and will be logged as PUT. Converting to a type in a class need not be done by an instructor but if it is maybe logged at PUT.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
There is no legal reason why anyone who is current on SEP Class can't jump into another SEP and teach themself. I do it all the time when doing flight tests and when getting into single seaters. For a current pilot it does not present a problem.
For the low hours or non current or flying with a club moving to a new type is usually done with an Instructor and you would hope they would gain something from that experience so the conversion is invariably a PUT flight.
If you are joining a new group and are current, no reason for another group member not to check you out. However if you are not current perhaps having an Instructor who is trained to deal with the sort of problems that can arise from having a non current pilot on board makes more sense?
For the low hours or non current or flying with a club moving to a new type is usually done with an Instructor and you would hope they would gain something from that experience so the conversion is invariably a PUT flight.
If you are joining a new group and are current, no reason for another group member not to check you out. However if you are not current perhaps having an Instructor who is trained to deal with the sort of problems that can arise from having a non current pilot on board makes more sense?
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Oxford
I converted myself to C152 at only about 150hrs total time - without any problems. I'd flown PA38 (similarly light) and C172 (similar systems) before, so it was no drama at all - and the club didn't require a check.
Tim
Tim
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,524
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From: United Kingdom
Slightly off topic but a couple of misconceptions need addressing.
Only true in the SEP class (but see below) - 'conversions' between different types in the MEP class require differences training and, within the SET and MET classes, type rating training may be required in some instances.
Only true within the SEP class. Mandatory differences training in the MEP class must be done by an instructor and signed in the logbook. Type Ratings within the SET and MET classes must be entered in the licence by the Authority.
Only true if mandatory differences training (e.g. Tailwheel, Turbocharging, VP prop, etc.) is not required.
Mandatory differences training must be logged as PUT
....having an instructor convert you between different types within a class does not appear to be so and is not differences training
Converting to a type in a class need not be done by an instructor
There is no legal reason why anyone who is current on SEP Class can't jump into another SEP and teach themself.
Mandatory differences training must be logged as PUT
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: He's on the limb to nowhere
I logged P1, coz I wasn't receiving instruction and was the sole manipulator of the controls.
He logged P1 because he was the ultimate commander had everything gone wrong and he intervened to save us.
He logged P1 because he was the ultimate commander had everything gone wrong and he intervened to save us.
That is exactly the way the FAA decree it should be - two people can book P1 at the same time.
