Columbia VLJ!

[sternone]

Columbia will present their mockup of their VLJ in begin November...

On their site it says:

November 1-2
Dallas, TX - Jet Preview
KDAL

Here we go another VLJ!!!

And i also think Mooney will announce a VLJ at AOPA Expo in october....

[soay]

Don't get too excited. This is what Jet Preview's about.

[BillieBob]

Yes, I wouldn't get too excited about any VLJs in Europe just yet. EASA clearly have issues with the whole VLJ concept and, for example, have placed ridiculous and unsustainable pre-entry requirements (here) on the Cessna Mustang type rating - I understand that Cessna are close to taking legal action as a result of this entirely incompetent action by the JOEB. Anyone considering the purchase of a VLJ in Europe would be well advised to wait awhile and let the dust settle.

[IO540]

BB - on my reading, I don't see anything in there which is unreasonable.

Currently, you can get your PPL (in some piece of 1970s wreckage), buy a new spaceship with a G1000, and fly off into the sunset, or in some cases into something else.

I have been doing microprocessor hardware and software design, as well as analog circuit design, since the 1970s, but there is no way I could fully use a G1000 without a fair bit of training. Most of it is obvious but a lot is pretty impenetrable.

Now, I would never argue for more regulation in this already grotesquely over-regulated business, but I think there are one or two areas which do need looking at, and I would start with making sure the pilot actually knows what every lever, knob, button, LCD screen, etc, actually does. "We PPLs" (I am a CPL but not a working one) have had it too good for a long time, but when people start getting into real spaceships they should accept having to learn how to work all the goodies in them.

Maybe I missed something - what in particular bothers you?

What would seriously bother pilots would be a mandatory ATPL for all jet ops, or mandatory 2-pilot operation. The VLJ TR material comes level to an ATPL in pilot competence but having to do an actual ATPL (1500hrs, etc) would be a major hassle, and silly under JAA.

Having said that, I don't see how Europe can square this with ICAO. If a pilot in the USA can buy an Eclipse or whatever, he can fly it into Europe and - short of specific legislation for the specific airspace and aircraft type etc - nobody here has any right to stop him.

[sternone]

What would seriously bother pilots would be a mandatory ATPL for all jet ops, or mandatory 2-pilot operation.

That means that me (who only can get a medical 2 because of my eyes, my correctioin is a little bit too strong) cannot fly these VLJ birds!! Wheeeeeeee

[Wrong Stuff]

Originally Posted by IO540

BB - on my reading, I don't see anything in there which is unreasonable.

I would imagine there's less consternation about the need to have G1000 experience than about the type-rating course pre-entry requirement to already have turbojet experience. That implies a European licence holder can't do the Mustang type rating without having first done a type rating in another jet.

(Although I guess it doesn't preclude you first doing the type rating on your FAA licence and then doing it again to get it validated on your European one, but it would still require you to do the type rating twice and presumably find an N-reg jet on which to get the required experience.)

[BillieBob]

IO540 - There is no suggestion that pilots should not receive adequate training in the kit fitted to the aeroplane but this should be done as part of the TR course, not as a pre-requisite to it.

What is unreasonable is that these requirements have been applied to only one manufacturer's product and are not supported by JAR-FCL. You can get a type rating on a Raytheon SP jet without these restrictions but not on a Cessna one (similar restrictions have been placed on the CJ series).

Note that it doesn't say 'G1000 experience' it says 'knowledge', although there is no definition of what constitutes knowledge. I have several thousand hours experience in both SP and MP jet aeroplanes but have never seen a G1000 - according to this ill-thought edict by the JOEB, I cannot, therefore, commence a type rating course on this aeroplane.

[B2N2]

Before you take delivery take your training in the USA.
That will qualify you to take the training in Europe (again)

[IO540]

OK, I didn't realise this is discrimation according to [jet] aircraft type. That's well out of order.

My *guess* is that this is the often voiced "European regulator panic" over "thousands" of VLJs "clogging up" European airspace. So they decided to make it harder.

I spoke to somebody in the know this morning, and I gather these extra requirements will cost the pilot about £10k.

Of course if the plane is on the N-reg, he can fly worldwide, in all airspace, with a PPL/IR and a TR.... the Eurocrats really hate this.

[B2N2]

I spoke to somebody in the know this morning, and I gather these extra requirements will cost the pilot about £10k.

That's about $20K, somehow I don't think that will be a problem if you the means to put $1.4mil on the table.
We're not dealing with people here that are on a budget....

[sternone]

That's about $20K, somehow I don't think that will be a problem if you the means to put $1.4mil on the table.
We're not dealing with people here that are on a budget...

That sounds for an extra discount to be asked at the supplier to me...

[Wrong Stuff]

Originally Posted by B2N2

We're not dealing with people here that are on a budget....

For the potential buyers of self-fly jets, the budgetary constraint is more likely to be time than money. The Cessna Mustang type rating is 10 working days. So if you have to do it twice, that's pretty much a full month out of your year.