How nervous should your instructor be?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Eastbourne
Age: 37
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How nervous should your instructor be?
Is it normal for an instructor to be noticeably 'edgy' when a rational but somewhat incompetent (I am a learner, after all!) student is at the controls?
Should an instructor always appear calm and serene and in control, even when they're not? Is it ok for them just to be 'aware' of traffic rather than obsessing about it and grabbing at the controls when another plane is spotted? It's not as if I'm going to fly us into them!
I understand aviation carries a degree of risk but my chap seems to be in constant fear that I'm going to kill him which I'm beginning to feel is rubbing off on me and stifling my own performance. It's possible of course that something I do as a student could result in our untimely demise but that's what he signed up for, isn't it?
Sorry if this sounds like a rant, it's not. I like my instructor, he's a good pilot, a nice guy and his teaching style is good... if perhaps a little 'by the book'. It's just when I'm paying £140/hour + VAT I don't like to feel guilty for making the guy sweat!
Should an instructor always appear calm and serene and in control, even when they're not? Is it ok for them just to be 'aware' of traffic rather than obsessing about it and grabbing at the controls when another plane is spotted? It's not as if I'm going to fly us into them!
I understand aviation carries a degree of risk but my chap seems to be in constant fear that I'm going to kill him which I'm beginning to feel is rubbing off on me and stifling my own performance. It's possible of course that something I do as a student could result in our untimely demise but that's what he signed up for, isn't it?
Sorry if this sounds like a rant, it's not. I like my instructor, he's a good pilot, a nice guy and his teaching style is good... if perhaps a little 'by the book'. It's just when I'm paying £140/hour + VAT I don't like to feel guilty for making the guy sweat!
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not a flight instructor, but my opinion is that a good instructor should give you room to make mistakes, up to the point where it becomes unsafe. At that point, the instructor should take over and take decisive action to avoid problems.
So if you or the instructor spots traffic miles away, takes over the controls and then just lets the plane continue on its present path, he was too early and probably too edgy, in my humble opinion. Instead, he should just let you deal with it, or give you verbal instructions for dealing with it. Did you talk to him or the CFI about this?
Obvious exception is in the very early stages of training, where the instructor should take over for take-offs, landings and other things that are simply beyond what the student can handle at that point. Or to demonstrate something which is very hard to explain verbally.
So if you or the instructor spots traffic miles away, takes over the controls and then just lets the plane continue on its present path, he was too early and probably too edgy, in my humble opinion. Instead, he should just let you deal with it, or give you verbal instructions for dealing with it. Did you talk to him or the CFI about this?
Obvious exception is in the very early stages of training, where the instructor should take over for take-offs, landings and other things that are simply beyond what the student can handle at that point. Or to demonstrate something which is very hard to explain verbally.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An instructor has to learn just like you.
Unfortunately the present systems does not encourage career instructors who have long and colourful logbooks so many having surprisingly few hours to their credit.
Whilst I am not an instructor, I do a reasonable amount of right seat flying. There are times during any flight when you realise that if the "student" makes a real mess of things recovering the situation is going to be interesting - fortunately such times are relatively few, and have a great deal to do with how close the ground is! In these situations there is a fine balance between how far you let the "student" go and when you take over. Ideally you want the student to go as far as is reasonable.
Of course you dont say how much instructing your man has done and perhaps there are other reasons for his anxiety.
A more informative answer might be possible if you gave some examples and described which excercises you are doing.
However to hopefully put your mind at rest there is very little you could do that will put you or him at real risk. There are a number of excercises where the instructor will be well aware that there is a risk of your getting the aircraft into a situation outside its normal envelope and he will be wary during these excercises and ready to take over before the situation becomes dangerous. Maybe you are at this stage?
Of course having clearly briefed you on the touch drills for a engine failure if you actually turn off the fuel the engine will stop and it jsut might not start again! The instructor should do a reasonable job of the FL but he is going to earn his keep.
Unfortunately the present systems does not encourage career instructors who have long and colourful logbooks so many having surprisingly few hours to their credit.
Whilst I am not an instructor, I do a reasonable amount of right seat flying. There are times during any flight when you realise that if the "student" makes a real mess of things recovering the situation is going to be interesting - fortunately such times are relatively few, and have a great deal to do with how close the ground is! In these situations there is a fine balance between how far you let the "student" go and when you take over. Ideally you want the student to go as far as is reasonable.
Of course you dont say how much instructing your man has done and perhaps there are other reasons for his anxiety.
A more informative answer might be possible if you gave some examples and described which excercises you are doing.
However to hopefully put your mind at rest there is very little you could do that will put you or him at real risk. There are a number of excercises where the instructor will be well aware that there is a risk of your getting the aircraft into a situation outside its normal envelope and he will be wary during these excercises and ready to take over before the situation becomes dangerous. Maybe you are at this stage?
Of course having clearly briefed you on the touch drills for a engine failure if you actually turn off the fuel the engine will stop and it jsut might not start again! The instructor should do a reasonable job of the FL but he is going to earn his keep.
Hovering AND talking
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 59
Posts: 5,705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This doesn't sound good. I think you might need to have a chat with the Chief Instructor and maybe have another instructor.
When I think about all my instructors, they were each, to a man, unflappable, even once when I did make a very dodgy maneouvre (nearly resulting in a dynamic rollover). Only during the debrief was the severity impressed upon me; not in the cockpit.
Cheers
Whirls
When I think about all my instructors, they were each, to a man, unflappable, even once when I did make a very dodgy maneouvre (nearly resulting in a dynamic rollover). Only during the debrief was the severity impressed upon me; not in the cockpit.
Cheers
Whirls
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Eastbourne
Age: 37
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He's not a great deal older than I am. I've no idea how many hours he has - that struck me as a bit of a presumptuous question to ask 
.
My problem is lack of assertiveness. I'm used to being in a position of authority through my work and now the tables are turned and it's a little unnerving. It doesn't feel right to question anything even though I'm aware that I am the customer and should feel like I'm getting value for money.
Having said that, I seem to be progressing nicely enough and despite an *awful* circuits lesson today both my instructor and the CFI assure me I'm on target for getting my license in the minimum hours required.
.My problem is lack of assertiveness. I'm used to being in a position of authority through my work and now the tables are turned and it's a little unnerving. It doesn't feel right to question anything even though I'm aware that I am the customer and should feel like I'm getting value for money.
Having said that, I seem to be progressing nicely enough and despite an *awful* circuits lesson today both my instructor and the CFI assure me I'm on target for getting my license in the minimum hours required.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Eastbourne
Age: 37
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I think about all my instructors, they were each, to a man, unflappable, even once when I did make a very dodgy maneouvre (nearly resulting in a dynamic rollover). Only during the debrief was the severity impressed upon me; not in the cockpit.
.Thanks for the input guys.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
maybe I am just bored.
I love teaching and hope that every time someone flies with me they take something away that might just benefit them in the same was I always learn from my betters.
As for the nervous Instructor, do I start my tirade against young hours builders again or just keep quiet to save a ban................
There is a lot to be said for high hour PPL and Career Instructors.......
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How can you be bored teaching? Are you an hours builder........
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels - Twin Comanche PA39 - KA C90B
Age: 51
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it normal for an instructor to be noticeably 'edgy' when a rational but somewhat incompetent (I am a learner, after all!) student is at the controls?
Should an instructor always appear calm and serene and in control, even when they're not? Is it ok for them just to be 'aware' of traffic rather than obsessing about it and grabbing at the controls when another plane is spotted? It's not as if I'm going to fly us into them!
I understand aviation carries a degree of risk but my chap seems to be in constant fear that I'm going to kill him which I'm beginning to feel is rubbing off on me and stifling my own performance. It's possible of course that something I do as a student could result in our untimely demise but that's what he signed up for, isn't it?
Sorry if this sounds like a rant, it's not. I like my instructor, he's a good pilot, a nice guy and his teaching style is good... if perhaps a little 'by the book'. It's just when I'm paying £140/hour + VAT I don't like to feel guilty for making the guy sweat!
GET ANOTHER INSTRUCTOR NOW!!!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it normal for an instructor to be noticeably 'edgy' when a rational but somewhat incompetent (I am a learner, after all!) student is at the controls?
MF
Hovering AND talking
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 59
Posts: 5,705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
instuctors and unflappable just amused me
Cheers
Whirls
MizzFlyer - not helpful
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Essex
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a 5hr student, I don't really have the experience or knowledge to judge anyone, but I must say that I would be pretty unsettled by an instructor who fretted and grabbed at the controls all the time.
The two instructors that I've had have so far been cool and calm, and tell me how to put things right, rather than take immediate control. The only time he's done so was when my taxying went awry - I'm clearly more of a danger on the ground than in the air!
The two instructors that I've had have so far been cool and calm, and tell me how to put things right, rather than take immediate control. The only time he's done so was when my taxying went awry - I'm clearly more of a danger on the ground than in the air!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Eastbourne
Age: 37
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm a student, of course I'm scary to fly with! My question though (which has now been answered) is whether it's part of the instructor's job to remain calm and confident despite this, if only on the outside.
I've only ever had one instructor (20 hours so far) except for my trial lesson so no real basis for comparison.
I've only ever had one instructor (20 hours so far) except for my trial lesson so no real basis for comparison.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels - Twin Comanche PA39 - KA C90B
Age: 51
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My question though (which has now been answered)
Yes, he should always appear calm, since he needs to be aware of what errors you might do before they arise.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 46
Posts: 3,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are always times of stress in the cockpit, it's just that some people are better at hiding it than others.
Ideally all FI's should be steely-eyed and unflappable, but reality isn't like that.
Very few FI's that I've ever met are nervous people, if they were they wouldn't last very long.
Have I ever felt scared by the actions of a student? Very occasionally, but have I ever been scared by the actions of a supposedly licenced PPL? Oh yes on numerous occasions!
While we do notice most things coming a mile away, FI's aren't clairvoyant and sometimes people do things that you couldn't possibly forsee.
I look pretty calm when I'm in an a/c, but I am primed at all times to do something. I have had too many people do absolutely stupid things with no warning.
No-one could seriously tell you whether what your FI is doing is acceptable as all we hav is your comment that you are "rational". Believe me when I say that some people's idea of rational is a darn sight different to mine!
Ideally all FI's should be steely-eyed and unflappable, but reality isn't like that.
Very few FI's that I've ever met are nervous people, if they were they wouldn't last very long.
Have I ever felt scared by the actions of a student? Very occasionally, but have I ever been scared by the actions of a supposedly licenced PPL? Oh yes on numerous occasions!
While we do notice most things coming a mile away, FI's aren't clairvoyant and sometimes people do things that you couldn't possibly forsee.
I look pretty calm when I'm in an a/c, but I am primed at all times to do something. I have had too many people do absolutely stupid things with no warning.
No-one could seriously tell you whether what your FI is doing is acceptable as all we hav is your comment that you are "rational". Believe me when I say that some people's idea of rational is a darn sight different to mine!
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Instructing is a skill/art that has to be learnt, much like anything in life. assuming that you are well into your course, the term 'taking over' is actually 'intervention'. A skilled instructor rarely has to intervene, he will firstly have provided an adequate airborne demonstration (after a ground briefing) and by timely use of key words provide adequate prompting without 'getting in your face / on your case'.
Not all students and instructors are automatically compatable, both have strengths and weakness', and a student will have needs that need to be catered for. Students respond to differant instructors, and the instructor is to be the calming influence.
I have had experience of working with 'problem children' in the airborne environment, and in every case, a struggling student was in the position he was in because to some degree, our system had let them down. As it happens, the solution in virtually every case was to confirm that the student knew why he was expected to do certain things certain ways. Often the jigsaw puzzle of a flying course does not make sense until the last piece is inserted.
From what you describe, I would recomend an instructor change. Keep it impersonal, and has been alluded to already, a friendly chat with the CFI to explain why. If you do not enjoy learning, you are wasting your time, and the onus is upon the school to keep you (the customer) satisfied.
Not all students and instructors are automatically compatable, both have strengths and weakness', and a student will have needs that need to be catered for. Students respond to differant instructors, and the instructor is to be the calming influence.
I have had experience of working with 'problem children' in the airborne environment, and in every case, a struggling student was in the position he was in because to some degree, our system had let them down. As it happens, the solution in virtually every case was to confirm that the student knew why he was expected to do certain things certain ways. Often the jigsaw puzzle of a flying course does not make sense until the last piece is inserted.
From what you describe, I would recomend an instructor change. Keep it impersonal, and has been alluded to already, a friendly chat with the CFI to explain why. If you do not enjoy learning, you are wasting your time, and the onus is upon the school to keep you (the customer) satisfied.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Eastbourne
Age: 37
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by sternone
I hope you read the POH better than replys on your post !!! (see above) :
My overriding feeling though is that (as someone else said) he's only human and is learning the same way I am. At least I get on well with him - it could be a lot worse!
I think I'm going to have to fly with someone else to be authorised for solo (?) so we'll see how that goes
.Thanks again guys.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels - Twin Comanche PA39 - KA C90B
Age: 51
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He sounds like a pretty cool guy .