AOPA claim 70% drop out rate
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That may be a bit of a sweeping statement. A good lawyer might be on £300k. Good fund managers on much more. You can do an awful lot of flying on that...
Also, "free" is not necessarily "single". If you are a bloke who likes flying, and you shack up with a woman who hates it, who is to blame for this??
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I'm going to be cantakerous and try to inject some positivity into a seriously depressing thread.
The pilots I've met and mix with have been flying on average a lot longer than three years, the time loosely cited as a typical drop-off point. The pilots I mix with continue to find it enjoyable, or they would have stopped long ago and spent the money on yachts or repaying the national debt. They may not all be as anoraky as me and mine, but they revel in touring/bimbling/gentle aeros/introducing the great British public to the sky/strip hopping/etc as much as we revel in our flying, which includes a least a few of those items.
I don't think most people drop out because of flaws in the flying world, however flawed it may be, but because the flying world no longer fits their particular world. Domestic arrangements, health issues, money all are significant causes but most know there are ways to continue, even if their flying habits have to change. As someone above said, they move on. We do move on from hobbies, quite often because we want to try other ones. I once enjoyed being part of a chess club, but that was then. I used to enjoy making my own clothes, but it's a time-consuming occupation and flying consumes all the spare. I've chosen flying because it fulfills and stretches, gives experiences I'd never have acquired and having got sucked in, I'm not struggling to escape. I don't think I will until, one day, I get too poor, sick or shot down by regulations and it'll need at least two of those to make it a serious consideration.
I'm one of the 'lucky' ones. I have an old tailwheel aeroplane, fly from a wonderful farmstrip style airfield and enjoy the help and support of wiser men. I suspect too many people these days have to train at places that inadvertently give the impression that such airfields/aorports are the norm and they never or rarely get to experience the full joys of the puddle-jumping world....
One size doesn't fit all, I know.
"I think the biggest single reason is that the whole scene is decrepit, full of anoraks, has few interesting women which ensures that most "modern" men (who still have time and money) will go elsewhere".
Well I've found plenty of interesting men in the scene.
What's a "modern" man?
The pilots I've met and mix with have been flying on average a lot longer than three years, the time loosely cited as a typical drop-off point. The pilots I mix with continue to find it enjoyable, or they would have stopped long ago and spent the money on yachts or repaying the national debt. They may not all be as anoraky as me and mine, but they revel in touring/bimbling/gentle aeros/introducing the great British public to the sky/strip hopping/etc as much as we revel in our flying, which includes a least a few of those items.
I don't think most people drop out because of flaws in the flying world, however flawed it may be, but because the flying world no longer fits their particular world. Domestic arrangements, health issues, money all are significant causes but most know there are ways to continue, even if their flying habits have to change. As someone above said, they move on. We do move on from hobbies, quite often because we want to try other ones. I once enjoyed being part of a chess club, but that was then. I used to enjoy making my own clothes, but it's a time-consuming occupation and flying consumes all the spare. I've chosen flying because it fulfills and stretches, gives experiences I'd never have acquired and having got sucked in, I'm not struggling to escape. I don't think I will until, one day, I get too poor, sick or shot down by regulations and it'll need at least two of those to make it a serious consideration.
I'm one of the 'lucky' ones. I have an old tailwheel aeroplane, fly from a wonderful farmstrip style airfield and enjoy the help and support of wiser men. I suspect too many people these days have to train at places that inadvertently give the impression that such airfields/aorports are the norm and they never or rarely get to experience the full joys of the puddle-jumping world....
One size doesn't fit all, I know.
"I think the biggest single reason is that the whole scene is decrepit, full of anoraks, has few interesting women which ensures that most "modern" men (who still have time and money) will go elsewhere".
Well I've found plenty of interesting men in the scene.
What's a "modern" man?
The Original Whirly
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This is NOT a depressing thread, for Gawd's sake!!!!!
People fulfil their dreams, then move on to other dreams. What on earth is depressing about that? They find something totally wonderful, then being human, want something more. Greedy, yes! Depressing? Why?
In my case, I took up flying to get over a seriously bad time in my life. My sole ambition was to get my PPL and be able to fly to France for lunch.
Almost exactly ten years later, I have a PPL(A), PPL(H), CPL(H) and FI(H) rating. I earn my living as a helicopter instructor and aviation writer, writing regularly for two mags, and I've recently had a book proposal accepted. I've soloed a flexwing microlight, had a go in a glider and an autogyro, tried aerobatics, and traded a helicopter flight for a balloon flight. I've had that lunch in France, and also several flying holidays there plus one to Germany and Austria. I've flown all over the UK and Ireland. I've entered the Dawn to Dusk competition three times and won it once. I've flown in the USA and in Russia. And there's probably a few things I've forgotten.
It's all been wonderful, awesome, fantastic, and life-changing. Indeed, flying has completely changed my life. I will never, ever in a million years regret the day I walked into Welshpool Flying Club and said nervously, "I'm thinking of learning to fly".
But just because I've done so much in a relatively short time...what now? I love instructing, and I'll probably do it for as long as I can...or maybe just till I get tired of it and realise that the aviation writing pays a lot better. But as for flying for fun? I'd like to fly in New Zealand, but it's expensive, and I'm not sure I want to enough to spend all that money. I can't be bothered to spend my few days off boring holes in the sky or going to yet another fly-in. Maybe I would if I didn't fly for a living. Hard to say; I get my fix of flying for a day or two a week anyway.
But....
Recently I took up horse riding again, after a gap of years and years. I absolutely loved it, just as I had in my youth. Why did I ever give it up? I'm rusty, but I'd like to do more. There's a rather nice riding holiday in Andalucia I've seen advertised. It's a bit pricy, but if I don't fly in New Zealand...
That could have been sailing, or golf, or tiddlywinks? You see, flying is so all-consuming, that you can find you don't have time and money for anything else. So is it surprising if eventually, after 3, 5, 10, 20, 30 years, someone decides they fancy a change?
And don't anyone DARE tell me this post is depressing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Now, what I really, really, really wanna do is go into space.......)
People fulfil their dreams, then move on to other dreams. What on earth is depressing about that? They find something totally wonderful, then being human, want something more. Greedy, yes! Depressing? Why?
In my case, I took up flying to get over a seriously bad time in my life. My sole ambition was to get my PPL and be able to fly to France for lunch.
Almost exactly ten years later, I have a PPL(A), PPL(H), CPL(H) and FI(H) rating. I earn my living as a helicopter instructor and aviation writer, writing regularly for two mags, and I've recently had a book proposal accepted. I've soloed a flexwing microlight, had a go in a glider and an autogyro, tried aerobatics, and traded a helicopter flight for a balloon flight. I've had that lunch in France, and also several flying holidays there plus one to Germany and Austria. I've flown all over the UK and Ireland. I've entered the Dawn to Dusk competition three times and won it once. I've flown in the USA and in Russia. And there's probably a few things I've forgotten.
It's all been wonderful, awesome, fantastic, and life-changing. Indeed, flying has completely changed my life. I will never, ever in a million years regret the day I walked into Welshpool Flying Club and said nervously, "I'm thinking of learning to fly".
But just because I've done so much in a relatively short time...what now? I love instructing, and I'll probably do it for as long as I can...or maybe just till I get tired of it and realise that the aviation writing pays a lot better. But as for flying for fun? I'd like to fly in New Zealand, but it's expensive, and I'm not sure I want to enough to spend all that money. I can't be bothered to spend my few days off boring holes in the sky or going to yet another fly-in. Maybe I would if I didn't fly for a living. Hard to say; I get my fix of flying for a day or two a week anyway.
But....
Recently I took up horse riding again, after a gap of years and years. I absolutely loved it, just as I had in my youth. Why did I ever give it up? I'm rusty, but I'd like to do more. There's a rather nice riding holiday in Andalucia I've seen advertised. It's a bit pricy, but if I don't fly in New Zealand...
That could have been sailing, or golf, or tiddlywinks? You see, flying is so all-consuming, that you can find you don't have time and money for anything else. So is it surprising if eventually, after 3, 5, 10, 20, 30 years, someone decides they fancy a change?
And don't anyone DARE tell me this post is depressing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Now, what I really, really, really wanna do is go into space.......)
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You forgot to say you like cats too Whirlybird!
Cats are good.
I have colourpoints. Two boys. I treasure them.
Riding is also a good hobby (but more dangerous than flying). Now for those pilot blokes out there that don't meet enough women, I suggest they learn how to ride and get down to their local stables toute suite. (I did this at University, and acquired a very interesting circle of "friends".)
I had a trial lesson in a rotary once Whirly with cab air at Elstree. The instructor's attitude there put me off rotaries completely.....and I reckon this is why a fair number of PPLs drop out. They love flying, but they run into the occasional person that puts them off.
Cats are good.
I have colourpoints. Two boys. I treasure them.
Riding is also a good hobby (but more dangerous than flying). Now for those pilot blokes out there that don't meet enough women, I suggest they learn how to ride and get down to their local stables toute suite. (I did this at University, and acquired a very interesting circle of "friends".)
I had a trial lesson in a rotary once Whirly with cab air at Elstree. The instructor's attitude there put me off rotaries completely.....and I reckon this is why a fair number of PPLs drop out. They love flying, but they run into the occasional person that puts them off.
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Head or Heart?
This thread says to me that if I use my head then I should give up beacuse it is a wate of money and I will most likely stop in a few years.
Could I stop?
No... my heart wont allow me to give up on my dreams...
Could I stop?
No... my heart wont allow me to give up on my dreams...
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Given my career as an electronic engineer, I'm unlikely to make lawyer-style money unless I strike entrepreneurial gold
That's me too, and that is exactly what I did (started my own business). A lot of pilots are in "IT" in some way.
Well I've found plenty of interesting men in the scene.
It's often not obvious from the pprune nickname if it's a man or a woman
A female pilot would do very well indeed on the social front - as indeed she could do in just about every other male-dominated activity.
I don't regard this thread as negative. It's important to identify the issues if one is to address them.
I remain of the view that most people (that are at all able to fly i.e. have the budget and the time) who give up do so because flying does not compete on the hassle to reward ratio against other activities.
If it did compete successfully, the arrival of children should not stop you flying. It takes only a few hours to do a quick trip somewhere. If you are a bloke then your lady can look after the kids while you fly, and in return you can look after them while she goes off and has her gurlz' night out or whatever
If the arrival of children changes your family life to a constant mad panic (which is often the case) then not being able to fly will be the least of your problems, I am afraid. I have 2 kids so I know.
Flying does contain a lot of hassle on the ground, and different people get different amounts. A renter gets no ownership hassle but is usually stuck with flying old junk which he can't take away on long away trips, which takes out most utility value. An owner with a nice plane who rents hangarage will probably have the most hassle of all, but then he is probably the most motivated in the first place. Probably the best common situation is somebody who enjoys bimbling in some basic plane and who is based on a farm strip with a barn. The very best is your own plane, your own runway, your own hangar, but that's very hard to achieve.
That's me too, and that is exactly what I did (started my own business). A lot of pilots are in "IT" in some way.
Well I've found plenty of interesting men in the scene.
It's often not obvious from the pprune nickname if it's a man or a woman
A female pilot would do very well indeed on the social front - as indeed she could do in just about every other male-dominated activity.I don't regard this thread as negative. It's important to identify the issues if one is to address them.
I remain of the view that most people (that are at all able to fly i.e. have the budget and the time) who give up do so because flying does not compete on the hassle to reward ratio against other activities.
If it did compete successfully, the arrival of children should not stop you flying. It takes only a few hours to do a quick trip somewhere. If you are a bloke then your lady can look after the kids while you fly, and in return you can look after them while she goes off and has her gurlz' night out or whatever
If the arrival of children changes your family life to a constant mad panic (which is often the case) then not being able to fly will be the least of your problems, I am afraid. I have 2 kids so I know.
Flying does contain a lot of hassle on the ground, and different people get different amounts. A renter gets no ownership hassle but is usually stuck with flying old junk which he can't take away on long away trips, which takes out most utility value. An owner with a nice plane who rents hangarage will probably have the most hassle of all, but then he is probably the most motivated in the first place. Probably the best common situation is somebody who enjoys bimbling in some basic plane and who is based on a farm strip with a barn. The very best is your own plane, your own runway, your own hangar, but that's very hard to achieve.
The Original Whirly
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You forgot to say you like cats too Whirlybird!
Mind you, I'm not sure what relevance they have to this thread, but who cares; they should be mentioned. I have a colourpoint boy too...and two elderly Siamese girls, and two moggies. And I'm getting a twelve week old Maine Coon kitten on Wednesday.
Come to think of it, this is relevant - with six cats it's hardly surprising that I don 't have time or money for much else. But they're definitely worth it.
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How could I have forgotten the cats!!!!!
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
SD
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How could I have forgotten the cats!!!!!
Apparently they always know the right way up, even in IMC.
This could of course be tested by blind folding the cat, performing a loop and monitoring what the cat did at the top of the loop.
Could be a bit like a miner and his canary.
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Very good SD
I hate cats!! They are just so difficult to shoot when i'm hunting!!!
You need the correct tools: a 30ft-lb .22 silenced air rifle, with a Zeiss 50x8 scope. You need an FAC to get one, but they are good for controlling vermin at 70m easily and 100m at a push.
I hate cats!! They are just so difficult to shoot when i'm hunting!!!
You need the correct tools: a 30ft-lb .22 silenced air rifle, with a Zeiss 50x8 scope. You need an FAC to get one, but they are good for controlling vermin at 70m easily and 100m at a push.
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You need the correct tools: a 30ft-lb .22 silenced air rifle, with a Zeiss 50x8 scope. You need an FAC to get one, but they are good for controlling vermin at 70m easily and 100m at a push
I just went right off you
The Original Whirly
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I am convinced that the regrets you would have later in life if you quit before getting your PPL would be far, far greater than any regrets over the money you spend getting it!
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so what are people planning to do today?
I'm going to take a twin into Bembridge, and then do nothing more exciting than have a large lunch at the propeller inn, stretch out and read a good book for a couple of hours.
when I'm ready, I'll return to the mainland....
I'm going to take a twin into Bembridge, and then do nothing more exciting than have a large lunch at the propeller inn, stretch out and read a good book for a couple of hours.
when I'm ready, I'll return to the mainland....
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At my flying club we had the annual Goodwill day. We took children patients from three local hospitals, a little over 100 in total, flying with about 16 planes and some 40 pilots executing something like 60 flights.
In addition to this we had a ground program with police dog demonstrations, airport tours, fire brigate demos and whatnot.
Very tired now, very rewarding day. And excellent weather of course!
In addition to this we had a ground program with police dog demonstrations, airport tours, fire brigate demos and whatnot.
Very tired now, very rewarding day. And excellent weather of course!
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Originally Posted by Caullystone
I am a 6hrs into my PPL training....
This thread makes me think I should just give up now and save the money?
I am a 6hrs into my PPL training....
This thread makes me think I should just give up now and save the money?
Also the money side of things, I am not a wealthy man but could afford to get my licence in a reasonable time, 18 months (last 4 spent waiting for the right weather) but as others have said, things change, finances are not as fluid as they once were and I have recently started a small business alongside my full time job in an effort to improve both my lifestyle and flying future. This has the knock on effect of reducing time available to me.
The upshot of it all is this, Do I regret spending the money for my PPL?
Absolutely not, I loved every minute of it and even if I never flew again would not go back and change things. I have achieved a lifelong ambition and loved it more than I thought I would.
My present position is one where current desires are not met by available income so I do feel frustrated but I am not disheartened.
The recent checkride, although what many consider mundane, still gave me that buzz of sitting in the LHS and I will do whatever I can to make sure I keep on flying.
Ps, anyone wanna buy my granny?