Self employed instructors?
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Eastbourne
Self employed instructors?
This is just something I was pondering on the drive back from London this evening...
Why are there (apparently) very few or no freelance flying instructors? I'm thinking along the lines of freelance driving instructors - they would own their own plane, manage their own finances and 'cut out the middle man' (the flying school) thus making a more reasonable living from instruction.
It would surely benefit the student too as quality of the instructor's teaching is his livelihood - if he doesn't get referrals he's going to be eating a lot of beans on toast. Therefore he's going to pull out all the stops to keep his clients happy rather than sitting in the right hand seat disgruntled and bored, wishing he was flying a 737.
Is there a legislatory reason why this isn't possible? Are airfields not willing to let freelance instructors practice there? Are there indeed actually many freelance instructors that I've just not heard about?
Apologies if I'm talking from my behind, I am just a lowly PPL student after all
.
Why are there (apparently) very few or no freelance flying instructors? I'm thinking along the lines of freelance driving instructors - they would own their own plane, manage their own finances and 'cut out the middle man' (the flying school) thus making a more reasonable living from instruction.
It would surely benefit the student too as quality of the instructor's teaching is his livelihood - if he doesn't get referrals he's going to be eating a lot of beans on toast. Therefore he's going to pull out all the stops to keep his clients happy rather than sitting in the right hand seat disgruntled and bored, wishing he was flying a 737.
Is there a legislatory reason why this isn't possible? Are airfields not willing to let freelance instructors practice there? Are there indeed actually many freelance instructors that I've just not heard about?
Apologies if I'm talking from my behind, I am just a lowly PPL student after all
.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 779
Likes: 1
From: Kent UK
Hi Adam,
Check out Weald Air Services at Headcorn :
http://www.headcornaerodrome.co.uk/d...?module=flying
Kev.
Check out Weald Air Services at Headcorn :
http://www.headcornaerodrome.co.uk/d...?module=flying
Kev.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 20
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From: Eastbourne
They just sound like a contractors - a way to make the hiring and firing easier for the flight school
I'm thinking more about instructors owning their own planes, based at a big GA airfield and offering their own freelance instruction, unaffiliated with any flying school.
I'm thinking more about instructors owning their own planes, based at a big GA airfield and offering their own freelance instruction, unaffiliated with any flying school.
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
Likes: 1
From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Most instructors are freelance in that their time is independent. They could work for several schools for example and they charge any one school/club for the hours flown (depending on the agreement they hold).
The cost of owning and maintaining an aircraft, I would have thought, would be prohibitively expensive for one person to do. Therefore, they would have to join up with other instructors to share the costs. And, whilst they are flying, they would need someone to look after the office, man the phones the etc. And then, they'd end up with a flying club!
I do know that many driving instructors operate through a franchise which is not dissimilar to a flying club!
Cheers
Whirls
The cost of owning and maintaining an aircraft, I would have thought, would be prohibitively expensive for one person to do. Therefore, they would have to join up with other instructors to share the costs. And, whilst they are flying, they would need someone to look after the office, man the phones the etc. And then, they'd end up with a flying club!
I do know that many driving instructors operate through a franchise which is not dissimilar to a flying club!
Cheers
Whirls
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
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From: UK
As to the specific question, I don't know the definitive answer, but, as a student pilot, would you really want to be taught by someone who "spreads their favours" over several airfields, is only partially familier with the full working practices of the flying organisation you are paying £000s to learn to fly with and who, whilst "teaching" you, may well be desperate to get to the next airfield where more lucrative renumeration awaits.
Most instructors are "mobile" in that they will move on to other organisations, but I've not come across any who are "freelance" in the true sense of the word.
Most instructors are "mobile" in that they will move on to other organisations, but I've not come across any who are "freelance" in the true sense of the word.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 20
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From: Eastbourne
I don't see that owning an aircraft would be unworkable. A flying school wanting to have all instructors working at the same time will need at least one AC per instructor. Therefore one instructor with his own AC (perhaps something a little more flash than the usual to attract business) should be able to make ends meet.
A service like Moneypenny could be used to handle reception. There's no need to employ a fulltime receptionist. They could also implement online booking for minimal cost.
A service like Moneypenny could be used to handle reception. There's no need to employ a fulltime receptionist. They could also implement online booking for minimal cost.
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
Likes: 1
From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
I'd be interested to see your breakdown of figures for this. If you think it's workable, then maybe some people would be interested!
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 20
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From: Eastbourne
By the fact that nobody seems to be doing it, I'd assume you're both right and it is unworkable but I'd be interested to find out why. I'll do some sums tomorrow based on my limited knowledge and post my findings .
.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 523
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From: Kent
Originally Posted by muffin
I thought that training had to be conducted through an approved FTO??
OC619
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
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From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
I'm thinking more about instructors owning their own planes, based at a big GA airfield and offering their own freelance instruction, unaffiliated with any flying school.
Oh dear, G-XXXX needs to go off for an Annual. Fred tells his students it won't be avaialble for a bit, but they're not happy. Fearing losing them to the flying school at the other end of the airfield, he leases another aircraft - it's a bit tatty, but what can he do. Maybe he can get rid of it later on.
But no, he can't. Because either it's raining and all aircraft are grounded, or all his students want to fly at the same time! Anyway, a couple are near getting their PPL now, and want to hire from where they learned to fly, and if they can't...there's the other flying school at the end of the airfield, so maybe they'll finish the course there too. And actually, Fred can't safely teach and supervise solo students at the same time on the few sunny days he gets, so he really needs to employ another FI. And on a sunny day when they're flying their little socks off, that's the time when everyone turns up and wants to know about flying, so he really needs someone in the office. And if he doesn't sort this all out in a professional manner, and have instructors and aircraft available when people want them...they go to...you've guessed it...the school at the other end.
And suddenly..................Fred is running a Flying School.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,729
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From: 75N 16E
I've employed freelance instructors and examiners in the past. Typically they'll train you in your own aeroplane or have some deal with a place to use their aeroplanes or maybe share an aeroplane with another freelancer.
One chap I used to use was a BA captain and ex Harrier pilot. I paid him £50 per flying hour or £200 per day, regardless of length of day using our group aeroplane which I thought was fair. I got him to introduce me to France and the like.
I also use an examiner who has use of some FTO's aeroplanes, I pay him £160for a Bienniel "1 hour with a JAA instructor" including aeroplane rental and signing of SEP revalidation. Being an examiner he can kill two birds with 1 stone by doing an IMC revalidation as the 1 hour thingy or if nescessary do a revalidation check flight, which is all the same price.
One chap I used to use was a BA captain and ex Harrier pilot. I paid him £50 per flying hour or £200 per day, regardless of length of day using our group aeroplane which I thought was fair. I got him to introduce me to France and the like.
I also use an examiner who has use of some FTO's aeroplanes, I pay him £160for a Bienniel "1 hour with a JAA instructor" including aeroplane rental and signing of SEP revalidation. Being an examiner he can kill two birds with 1 stone by doing an IMC revalidation as the 1 hour thingy or if nescessary do a revalidation check flight, which is all the same price.
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
Likes: 2
From: north of barlu
Any one want to try this one?
If there are any instructors that have this as a business plan and want an aircraft please PM me.
By the way I don't lease out old wrecks with tatty paint that smell as if the upholstery is suporting some sort of pond life at rock bottom prices.
What you will get is a well maintaned clean aircraft with up to date radios and good upholstery and a maintenance package that could include a replacement aircraft but it will NOT be at a rock bottom price !
Sorry if this looks a bit too much like an advert but it seems to be aproprate to the thread and could help to start someone off on a new carreer path.
By the way I don't lease out old wrecks with tatty paint that smell as if the upholstery is suporting some sort of pond life at rock bottom prices.
What you will get is a well maintaned clean aircraft with up to date radios and good upholstery and a maintenance package that could include a replacement aircraft but it will NOT be at a rock bottom price !
Sorry if this looks a bit too much like an advert but it seems to be aproprate to the thread and could help to start someone off on a new carreer path.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 523
Likes: 1
From: Kent
Originally Posted by Adam_
They just sound like a contractors - a way to make the hiring and firing easier for the flight school
OC619
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 7
From: Sometimes north, sometimes south
I paid him £50 per flying hour or £200 per day
NS
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 896
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From: Strathaven Airfield
Good proposal, and one that has worked for many microlight instructors, including me.
Buying a plane is not a big expense - but leasing is how many many businesses do it, whether flying schools or driving schools.
In microlights, it is almost impossible to lease, so we buy. In the case of my Ikarus, 45k or my weighshift at 25k (new prices). That is a bhig expense.
I started in a farmer's field with a portacabin. I then went to Cumbernauld Airport for six years. Then I bought a farmer's field (Strathaven, which happened to get planning permission as an airfield 50 years ago!).
The situation at Cumbernauld was how you imagined it. I went to the airfield operator and said I wanted to base a microlight there and start training.
The airfield provided a runway, hangar space, a tower (with met stuff etc) and a public waiting room and a public briefing room (for visiting pilots to use, among other things, like me!).
I had a microlight, a briefcase with student records and briefing notes, a car with a box of logbooks and textbooks for sale, and a mobile phone. At home, I had a computer and office.
It only made sense to work from one airfield since the travelling time - even by air - wasn't chargeable.
If the microlight was off being serviced or I was on holiday - strange how the two get combined! - then no students flew. Since the nearest microlight school was 50 miles away, this was not a problem. If you have a one-to-one relationship with students, they understand things in a different way to when you are a part of a bigger organisation. You want to hear of their holidays, they want to hear of yours!
If the microlight was trashed in a crash, as happened, then I just had to buy a replacement. My credit card has a 15k limit on it!! So out of service for a week or so.
If students were solo on the school aircraft, I got a break from being in the air and still made money. Maybe I could have made more by having another aircraft in the air at the same time, but I would have had more costs, could only have been in the circuit and wouldn't have been able to take notes on all their solo circuits to debrief them.
(as an aside, anyone know of anyone who videos students' landings?)
Now I have my own field, I have two instructors working with me - on a franchise basis, and one is also a driving instructor, so knows the score on that front too.
I now have to provide the airfield services etc and answer the phone. It is amazing how many people I probably missed at Cumbernauld - but then I still had enought business for lonely me with the ones that persevered!
And then there are the dark wet winter months to get all your paperwork and tax returns sorted.
If you don't want to be a career instructor, then let someone else have all the hassle and work for a flying school. You won't get paid much.
If you want to work for yourself, and have all the hassle, you can do it. But you won't get paid much once you take into account all the expenses (your income is determined by what the other flying schools charge, in the main, and since they pay their instructors very little, your business plan will have to have YOU paid very little).
If you are a success, you will then take on other instructors - and then you'll stop flying because you'll be handling all the paperwork (which will have exploded exponentially!). And you still won't get paid much because - having been there - you'll want to make sure your " career" instructors stay with you, since if you have no instructors you'll have no income, so you'll try and give them fair pay.
And then someone crashes your 45k Ikarus at the height of the flying season, as someone did last week with me. So no aircraft and an insurance claim in - and so can't just say, get it repaired NOW. It may be October before it is repaired/written off. And there is a two month waiting list for a new aircraft and no second hand ones around - even if I wanted to take the cash for the new hangar and spend it on a replacement aircraft to keep us flying.
Why do we do it? We must be masochists if we say it is because we love it!
It boils down to: if you want to instruct, get a job as a flying instructor.
If you want to run a flying school, run a flying school (but you'd be lucky to do much flying if you try and expand, and the temptation will be there)
Yes, there is a halfway house. That is to be a freelance one-man band. And there can be happy, workable niches. Loook at that chap Derek who advertises the one week and pass all your JAR PPL exam courses, for example.
So, why so few people doing it? It is a special niche, not attractive or workable to many people.
Very best wishes, and good luck.
Buying a plane is not a big expense - but leasing is how many many businesses do it, whether flying schools or driving schools.
In microlights, it is almost impossible to lease, so we buy. In the case of my Ikarus, 45k or my weighshift at 25k (new prices). That is a bhig expense.
I started in a farmer's field with a portacabin. I then went to Cumbernauld Airport for six years. Then I bought a farmer's field (Strathaven, which happened to get planning permission as an airfield 50 years ago!).
The situation at Cumbernauld was how you imagined it. I went to the airfield operator and said I wanted to base a microlight there and start training.
The airfield provided a runway, hangar space, a tower (with met stuff etc) and a public waiting room and a public briefing room (for visiting pilots to use, among other things, like me!).
I had a microlight, a briefcase with student records and briefing notes, a car with a box of logbooks and textbooks for sale, and a mobile phone. At home, I had a computer and office.
It only made sense to work from one airfield since the travelling time - even by air - wasn't chargeable.
If the microlight was off being serviced or I was on holiday - strange how the two get combined! - then no students flew. Since the nearest microlight school was 50 miles away, this was not a problem. If you have a one-to-one relationship with students, they understand things in a different way to when you are a part of a bigger organisation. You want to hear of their holidays, they want to hear of yours!
If the microlight was trashed in a crash, as happened, then I just had to buy a replacement. My credit card has a 15k limit on it!! So out of service for a week or so.
If students were solo on the school aircraft, I got a break from being in the air and still made money. Maybe I could have made more by having another aircraft in the air at the same time, but I would have had more costs, could only have been in the circuit and wouldn't have been able to take notes on all their solo circuits to debrief them.
(as an aside, anyone know of anyone who videos students' landings?)
Now I have my own field, I have two instructors working with me - on a franchise basis, and one is also a driving instructor, so knows the score on that front too.
I now have to provide the airfield services etc and answer the phone. It is amazing how many people I probably missed at Cumbernauld - but then I still had enought business for lonely me with the ones that persevered!
And then there are the dark wet winter months to get all your paperwork and tax returns sorted.
If you don't want to be a career instructor, then let someone else have all the hassle and work for a flying school. You won't get paid much.
If you want to work for yourself, and have all the hassle, you can do it. But you won't get paid much once you take into account all the expenses (your income is determined by what the other flying schools charge, in the main, and since they pay their instructors very little, your business plan will have to have YOU paid very little).
If you are a success, you will then take on other instructors - and then you'll stop flying because you'll be handling all the paperwork (which will have exploded exponentially!). And you still won't get paid much because - having been there - you'll want to make sure your " career" instructors stay with you, since if you have no instructors you'll have no income, so you'll try and give them fair pay.
And then someone crashes your 45k Ikarus at the height of the flying season, as someone did last week with me. So no aircraft and an insurance claim in - and so can't just say, get it repaired NOW. It may be October before it is repaired/written off. And there is a two month waiting list for a new aircraft and no second hand ones around - even if I wanted to take the cash for the new hangar and spend it on a replacement aircraft to keep us flying.
Why do we do it? We must be masochists if we say it is because we love it!
It boils down to: if you want to instruct, get a job as a flying instructor.
If you want to run a flying school, run a flying school (but you'd be lucky to do much flying if you try and expand, and the temptation will be there)
Yes, there is a halfway house. That is to be a freelance one-man band. And there can be happy, workable niches. Loook at that chap Derek who advertises the one week and pass all your JAR PPL exam courses, for example.
So, why so few people doing it? It is a special niche, not attractive or workable to many people.
Very best wishes, and good luck.
Blah Blah Blah
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 927
Likes: 0
From: Malmesbury VRP
Ashley Gardener in the Isle of man is a one man band, has been for donkeys years. He has an office at Ronaldsway Airport and fly's a PA28.
Ashley Gardner School of Flying
Enquiries 01624-823454
Facsimilie 01624-825744
Ashley Gardner School of Flying
Enquiries 01624-823454
Facsimilie 01624-825744
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 1
From: Oop North, UK
Plenty of instructors who freelance but generally on peoples own aircraft for check outs, bi annuals, IMC, aeros etc. Irv Lee at Popham I think is one of the few full time who work like this, others such as myself only do it part time and often freelance for a school some of the time as well. I normally charge £24/hr plus travelling which I think is par for the course (travelling of course being offset able for tax).
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,689
Likes: 0
From: England
A lot of flying schools create the impression that their instructors really are their own instructors but in reality the arrangement is self-employed. I work part-time at one airfield under this kind of arrangement and basically, without boring you to tears, it all boils down to what's easier for getting around the Inland Revenue. They still list the 'instructors fee' on student receipts but that figure ain't what we actually receive!
VFE.
VFE.
