Cessna Aerobat what dya think?
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£5-£10K on a share in something half decent - shares in Yaks, Pitts's, Eagles etc can be easily had for that sort money - and the remaining £15-£20K on flying the thing.
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I have a share in an Archer at the moment and have no intention of getting rid of the share.
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Interesting thread. I own an aerobatic Beech Sundowner 180. Yes, they made them. Cleared for loops, spins, split-S, immelmans, aileron rolls, barrel rolls, snap rolls. Very quick on the ailerons. Not bad really for a 2450 lb tourer. If you can find one, I'd recommend it. Not much more of an aerobat than a C150 aerobat, but with an honest 115 knot cruise and 4 places, it is a great family tourer. At aerobatic weight (2030 lbs) with only 2 on board and light in fuel, the 180 hp Lycoming can climb sharply at 1000 ft/min.
The only problem, they were exceedingly rare. I happened to get my hands on one! I have thought of trading down to a C150 as I no longer need 4 seats that often, and would like to save on fuel, and still have a bit of fun. But at the end of the day I decided to keep the Beech.
If you're looking at 2-seat aerobatic machines, you could also consider a Citabria or Champ. I also heard that clipped-wing Cubs with 100 hp Continentals are pretty good as well. A buddy has a 115 hp Citabria and he seems to have loads of fun with it.
The only problem, they were exceedingly rare. I happened to get my hands on one! I have thought of trading down to a C150 as I no longer need 4 seats that often, and would like to save on fuel, and still have a bit of fun. But at the end of the day I decided to keep the Beech.
If you're looking at 2-seat aerobatic machines, you could also consider a Citabria or Champ. I also heard that clipped-wing Cubs with 100 hp Continentals are pretty good as well. A buddy has a 115 hp Citabria and he seems to have loads of fun with it.
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Good advice, Foxmoth.
I cannot see how any high wing monoplane can be much good at aeros. I never met one that was and if there is one out there, the C150 most certainly is not it. Frankly, I have had more fun in a BN2 which barrel rolls (empty) quite nicely.
Sadly the days when you could pick up a DHC1 for little more than the cost of the inner wing bay mod have long gone but I would echo your sentiments here - if finances will run to a share in an aircraft which has the best harmonised controls of any I have met in nearly 60 years of flying and is truly delightful in every respect (apart from flat spins), get a Chippie. Quite magical.
I cannot see how any high wing monoplane can be much good at aeros. I never met one that was and if there is one out there, the C150 most certainly is not it. Frankly, I have had more fun in a BN2 which barrel rolls (empty) quite nicely.
Sadly the days when you could pick up a DHC1 for little more than the cost of the inner wing bay mod have long gone but I would echo your sentiments here - if finances will run to a share in an aircraft which has the best harmonised controls of any I have met in nearly 60 years of flying and is truly delightful in every respect (apart from flat spins), get a Chippie. Quite magical.
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It has been a while since I did any aeros but I have to echo Gipsy:
I have only been flying for fifty years but My happiest times were in a chippy. Not as snappy as a Yak or Extra by any means but a truly satisfying kite. AND it smells like a real aeroplane.
if finances will run to a share in an aircraft which has the best harmonised controls of any I have met in nearly 60 years of flying and is truly delightful in every respect
at 26500
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Beechnut wrote:
While Champs undoubtedly have their good points, they are definitely NOT aerobatic in the UK.
Slip
(Champ owner
)
you could also consider a ........ Champ
Slip
(Champ owner
)
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EL
Seems like the 'have nots' are mounting up !
Just a couple of views on the Aerobat for what it's worth. In the States the aircraft is used as an ab initio trainer for aeros, as well as the Citabria and Super Decathlon. Its not a spectacular aeroplane and it doesn't do aerobatics that well but have you ever heard of one falling to pieces in mid air or that they are difficult to maintain ? What about expensive to run or hard to land ? How about difficult to recover from a spin ?
I own a Super Decathlon which too received a fair amount of derisory comments before people flew it and saw the light !! As always with aerobatics there are a lot of armchair experts out there who can't wait to share their opinion however one of the only times I saw a crowd silenced by an aerobatic display was at Old Warden by a chap in an Aerobat who sparkled and didn't lose height.
I did my aerobatic instructors rating in the 152 Aerobat rather than the Decathlon because it taught me so much about energy management and proper control harmonisation. Its also more importantly a hoot. Most aeroclub Aerobats are dogs as is most of the uk hire fleet so try to fly a good one to get a fair comparison.
Finally the British Aerobatic Association has a Cessna trophy and look at what won one of the beginners comps recently.
Finally if you don't think they are fun try this in your Chipmunk or Bulldog !http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laPklVfCdAI or have a look at www.aceaerobaticschool.com.
Good Luck. CPC
Seems like the 'have nots' are mounting up !
Just a couple of views on the Aerobat for what it's worth. In the States the aircraft is used as an ab initio trainer for aeros, as well as the Citabria and Super Decathlon. Its not a spectacular aeroplane and it doesn't do aerobatics that well but have you ever heard of one falling to pieces in mid air or that they are difficult to maintain ? What about expensive to run or hard to land ? How about difficult to recover from a spin ?
I own a Super Decathlon which too received a fair amount of derisory comments before people flew it and saw the light !! As always with aerobatics there are a lot of armchair experts out there who can't wait to share their opinion however one of the only times I saw a crowd silenced by an aerobatic display was at Old Warden by a chap in an Aerobat who sparkled and didn't lose height.
I did my aerobatic instructors rating in the 152 Aerobat rather than the Decathlon because it taught me so much about energy management and proper control harmonisation. Its also more importantly a hoot. Most aeroclub Aerobats are dogs as is most of the uk hire fleet so try to fly a good one to get a fair comparison.
Finally the British Aerobatic Association has a Cessna trophy and look at what won one of the beginners comps recently.
Finally if you don't think they are fun try this in your Chipmunk or Bulldog !http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laPklVfCdAI or have a look at www.aceaerobaticschool.com.
Good Luck. CPC
Last edited by checkpointcharlie; 12th Jun 2007 at 16:21. Reason: typo
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Originally Posted by checkpointcharlie
Finally the British Aerobatic Association has a Cessna trophy and look at what won one of the beginners comps recently.
http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/points/points.htm
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Further to checkpointcharlie's Decathlon comments, here is a 8KCAB Super Decathlon listed for $60,000 USD in California. Better examples are asking $74,900 USD.
Make sure all AD's are complied with, and ask how many times it has been ground-looped, not if it has been ground-looped. You'll likely get a more honest response.
Make sure all AD's are complied with, and ask how many times it has been ground-looped, not if it has been ground-looped. You'll likely get a more honest response.
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there are a lot of armchair experts out there who can't wait to share their opinion
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Sorry Fox Moth no offence meant. Obviously you are extremely well qualified to comment and I think being a professional you know how wide of the mark some peoples opinions can be !
Mind you Airbus drivers always were sensitive !!
Mind you Airbus drivers always were sensitive !!
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Finally if you don't think they are fun try this in your Chipmunk or Bulldog !http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laPklVfCdAI
Beech
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Originally Posted by davidatter708
Back of pilot magazine jet provost mk3 fully aerobatic and a jet at 26500
Originally Posted by effortless
Not as snappy as a Yak or Extra by any means but a truly satisfying kite. AND it smells like a real aeroplane
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Vomit? Well, occasionally, I suppose, but that malodorous condition can be found in pretty well any aircraft that has not properly been washed out. Perhaps more noticeable in a Chipmunk due to the canopy - I suspect many more people were sick in its predecessor (DH82a) but less noticeably so due to the natural ventilation afforded by the open cockpits. Having a passenger on board while you practise recovery from unusual attitudes on instruments is guaranteed to produce something unpleasant.
My olfactorial memories are of leather, sweat and Brylcreme. But I'm from a different age when you had to do a couple of low passes in your DH89 or Lockheed Lodestar to move the dinosaurs off the landing strip. Happy days!
Incidentally, why has nobody mentioned the Stampe? It had a better rate of roll than the Tigger, didn't have those damned slats and was nicer to fly. But if you want a lesson in energy management, have a go in the Fournier RF4 . . . .
My olfactorial memories are of leather, sweat and Brylcreme. But I'm from a different age when you had to do a couple of low passes in your DH89 or Lockheed Lodestar to move the dinosaurs off the landing strip. Happy days!
Incidentally, why has nobody mentioned the Stampe? It had a better rate of roll than the Tigger, didn't have those damned slats and was nicer to fly. But if you want a lesson in energy management, have a go in the Fournier RF4 . . . .
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But if you want a lesson in energy management, have a go in the Fournier RF4 . . . .
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I've been Chippying for a few decades now and I love that aeroplane. But cheap to run they ain't. Our's has always been a big group which keeps the costs down, and not being a tourer a big group works well with availability, too.
However, for aerobatic bangs per buck, a Yak 52 share would be better. Or for a cheaper alternative to the Chippy, still with 2 seats but without the vintage charm and character, the T67 is OK.
However, for aerobatic bangs per buck, a Yak 52 share would be better. Or for a cheaper alternative to the Chippy, still with 2 seats but without the vintage charm and character, the T67 is OK.
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Incidentally, I have just watched the 152 doing 60 turns - see link above.
Something seems not quite right here. I would have expected some camera shake at the stall but was not able to detect any. Why does the girl's hair not lift at entry to the spin or otherwise make much movement? The sequence seems to have been initiated at 14,000 feet (will one of these climb that high?) and whilst the altimeter appears to unwind with some predictability, other flight instruments can't be checked as the yoke is in the way - I would have expected it to have been pulled much further aft. And why full left aerleron in a spin anyway?
And has anyone noticed the rotating ground? The aircraft's vertical axis of descent is extraordinarly concentric. Looks a bit computer-generated to me . .
Others may find more inconsistencies; I'm getting a whiff of hay here.
And no, I would not wish to attempt this in a Chipmunk. There used to be a widely-circulated theory that if you opened the canopy and stood up, the change in airflow would get the a/c out of the flat condition which it had a propensity to adopt after a few turns. Never met anyone (living) who had tried it though!
Something seems not quite right here. I would have expected some camera shake at the stall but was not able to detect any. Why does the girl's hair not lift at entry to the spin or otherwise make much movement? The sequence seems to have been initiated at 14,000 feet (will one of these climb that high?) and whilst the altimeter appears to unwind with some predictability, other flight instruments can't be checked as the yoke is in the way - I would have expected it to have been pulled much further aft. And why full left aerleron in a spin anyway?
And has anyone noticed the rotating ground? The aircraft's vertical axis of descent is extraordinarly concentric. Looks a bit computer-generated to me . .
Others may find more inconsistencies; I'm getting a whiff of hay here.
And no, I would not wish to attempt this in a Chipmunk. There used to be a widely-circulated theory that if you opened the canopy and stood up, the change in airflow would get the a/c out of the flat condition which it had a propensity to adopt after a few turns. Never met anyone (living) who had tried it though!