Scared every time I go up
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Scared every time I go up
Hi, I used to have fear everytime I went flying, a sort of mild insecurity that was not easily definable. Now after reading this forum I am begining to think that it would be totally unwise ever to fly in a helicopter/ light aircraft again. This is confirmed by the videos of "kids" doing aerobatics in SFH a/c on YouTube, I do not want to end up losing a blade, tail, or wing because of another persons attempts to impress.
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Yeah and me every hour for the last 2000 odd hours.......
Don't be put off, most people are sane and careful. There will always be the odd idiot but then look at them on cars and bikes!
Don't be put off, most people are sane and careful. There will always be the odd idiot but then look at them on cars and bikes!
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Al,
I'm not sure what the point of your post is. If you want us to convince you that flying is safe, that would not be a good idea.
Flying is as safe as you make it. If you manage the risks properly you can make it reasonably safe, but like everything in life, you can never make it perfectly safe.
If you don't manage the risks, then you obviously increase them to yourself and others.
For us to try and convince you it is safe would be wrong, because we have no idea how you manage the risks to yourself.
It's in your own hands, so you'll have to make your own decisions.
The only two things I'd say is to make sure you understand the risk factors and manage them properly (ask for help, if you're not happy that you fully appreciate the bits likely to go wrong), and secondly if your still not comfortable, then why continue. Flying is expensive, and it has a certain amount of risk that you can't get rid of. If you're not enjoying it, then perhaps it's time to give up?
dp
I'm not sure what the point of your post is. If you want us to convince you that flying is safe, that would not be a good idea.
Flying is as safe as you make it. If you manage the risks properly you can make it reasonably safe, but like everything in life, you can never make it perfectly safe.
If you don't manage the risks, then you obviously increase them to yourself and others.
For us to try and convince you it is safe would be wrong, because we have no idea how you manage the risks to yourself.
It's in your own hands, so you'll have to make your own decisions.
The only two things I'd say is to make sure you understand the risk factors and manage them properly (ask for help, if you're not happy that you fully appreciate the bits likely to go wrong), and secondly if your still not comfortable, then why continue. Flying is expensive, and it has a certain amount of risk that you can't get rid of. If you're not enjoying it, then perhaps it's time to give up?
dp
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I think he is worried about bits falling off the plane because somebody before him has bent something. A reasonable fear I suppose, but not one borne out by the numbers.
I cannot get on the NTSB web site right now but the figures are out there to look at. Mechanical failure (engine or airframe) causing accidents or fatalities are very uncommon. Pilot error causing accidents are as common as the pilot wants to make them. From memory, I think the numbers show you need to fly several tens of thousands of hours before you might reasonalby expect to have an accident due to mechanical failure. Of course it could come next hour, that's the nature of these statistics, but it's not at all likely. Talk to a mechanic and instructor to find out what you can do to reduce the likelyhood of a mechanical failure being fatal, it really is mostly in the pilot's hands.
I cannot get on the NTSB web site right now but the figures are out there to look at. Mechanical failure (engine or airframe) causing accidents or fatalities are very uncommon. Pilot error causing accidents are as common as the pilot wants to make them. From memory, I think the numbers show you need to fly several tens of thousands of hours before you might reasonalby expect to have an accident due to mechanical failure. Of course it could come next hour, that's the nature of these statistics, but it's not at all likely. Talk to a mechanic and instructor to find out what you can do to reduce the likelyhood of a mechanical failure being fatal, it really is mostly in the pilot's hands.
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No difference
"I used to have fear everytime I went flying, a sort of mild insecurity that was not easily definable. "
....The risk hasn't changed, just your recognition and awareness.
In some ways that now makes things safer for you because you're more likely to mitigate against these, now known, known risks - e.g. looking out more and doing thorough pre-flight checks.
....The risk hasn't changed, just your recognition and awareness.
In some ways that now makes things safer for you because you're more likely to mitigate against these, now known, known risks - e.g. looking out more and doing thorough pre-flight checks.
Blah Blah Blah
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If I havent flown for a while I am a little nervous when I next go up. other than that I find a thorough preparation and planning sets my mind at ease. Doing everything as strictly as you can should help limit risks which hopefully puts your mind at rest (or at least a bit)
Having said that and also in contradiction to the statistics that slim_slag mentions I have had the following happen to me:
31 hours: total electrical failure (C150)
47 hours engine failure (PA28)
49 hours instrument failure (C172)
73 hours flap failure on short finals (PA32)
81 hours wobbly prop failure resulting in prop fully feathering (PA32)
Touch wood nothing else worth mentioning since. But all that did occur within 6 month period. The engine failure and wobbly prop failure are by far the worst two. Having experienced them and carried out emergency procedures without any nasties has given me a great deal of confidence (although that might not be a good thing).
Having said that and also in contradiction to the statistics that slim_slag mentions I have had the following happen to me:
31 hours: total electrical failure (C150)
47 hours engine failure (PA28)
49 hours instrument failure (C172)
73 hours flap failure on short finals (PA32)
81 hours wobbly prop failure resulting in prop fully feathering (PA32)
Touch wood nothing else worth mentioning since. But all that did occur within 6 month period. The engine failure and wobbly prop failure are by far the worst two. Having experienced them and carried out emergency procedures without any nasties has given me a great deal of confidence (although that might not be a good thing).
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I think most of us have a little fear flying up there, in the beginning all i was thinking that the engine on top was going to stop running, after some hours of training i did not had time to think about that..
i feel confident in knowing what to do in case of emergency.. the reason that BRS exists is because of people like you having fears of mid air collisions etc..
i feel confident in knowing what to do in case of emergency.. the reason that BRS exists is because of people like you having fears of mid air collisions etc..
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Very true Slim, I have not actually had an accident. What I meant was
All the failures I have had could quiet easily have casued an accident, I had not even had 100 hours at that point let alone several tens of thousands. And I certainly never expect to have these failures anyway 
I did not mean to seem argumentative.
Originally Posted by slim_slag
I think the numbers show you need to fly several tens of thousands of hours before you might reasonalby expect to have an accident due to mechanical failure
I did not mean to seem argumentative.
Last edited by gcolyer; 18th May 2007 at 13:23. Reason: dyslexic fingers.
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A little bit of fear keeps your checks and your performance in order, complacency kills - I personally prefer a little bit of trepidiation because it ensures that I check everything I should have on the walk round/ run-up checks etc.
Once I'm satisfied it's ok, the trepdiation dissipates (to a large extent), but it's that same naggling feeling that ensures that I'm keeping an eye out for an emergency landing site while bimbling along, and that I'm doing my fredas and that I know where I am, which ultimately, makes my flying more professional and safer
Once I'm satisfied it's ok, the trepdiation dissipates (to a large extent), but it's that same naggling feeling that ensures that I'm keeping an eye out for an emergency landing site while bimbling along, and that I'm doing my fredas and that I know where I am, which ultimately, makes my flying more professional and safer
Blah Blah Blah
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Talking about looking for places to land during and emergency...I was bimbling along last saturday from Southend on Sea -> Stapleford -> Elestree -> deham...you get the idea for the route and I was thinking if I lost my engine where would I go.... the answer is you are pretty stuffed unless you are at a decent alltitude. The best option i thought would be to turn northerly and head for the fields on the outskirts of london. However at 2000 feet I still don't think I would have made it. And I am not sure trying to stuff the plane in to some park in London is a great idea.
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Dom't think you were arguing gcolyer, hope I don't come over the same, this bulletin board medium is not the best for showing emotion. When I can get to the NTSB statistics I will post them, maybe that will make more sense.
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Well if you're frightened someone has over stressed the plane - don't fly.
But if you look at the number of structural failures you'll see its incredibly small and in no way represents some of the alarmist cr*p that gets typed on these fora.
Floating things in the cockpit is pretty harmless and recovering from some poor executed 'death dive' is pretty easy. Must be I do it every year for my permit renewal VNE test flight....
Of course you could always buy your own aircraft and forget the fear!
But if you look at the number of structural failures you'll see its incredibly small and in no way represents some of the alarmist cr*p that gets typed on these fora.
Floating things in the cockpit is pretty harmless and recovering from some poor executed 'death dive' is pretty easy. Must be I do it every year for my permit renewal VNE test flight....
Of course you could always buy your own aircraft and forget the fear!
Buttonpusher
Having said that and also in contradiction to the statistics that slim_slag mentions I have had the following happen to me:
31 hours: total electrical failure (C150)
47 hours engine failure (PA28)
49 hours instrument failure (C172)
73 hours flap failure on short finals (PA32)
81 hours wobbly prop failure resulting in prop fully feathering (PA32)
31 hours: total electrical failure (C150)
47 hours engine failure (PA28)
49 hours instrument failure (C172)
73 hours flap failure on short finals (PA32)
81 hours wobbly prop failure resulting in prop fully feathering (PA32)
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Hi, I used to have fear everytime I went flying, a sort of mild insecurity that was not easily definable.
I think you need to identify why.
Leaving aside that the fear may have been compounded by the thought of bits dropping off, there are clearly other reasons for the mild insecurity.
Often these come from a lack of appreciation of what can go wrong and what you can do about it. For example, many have a fear of engine failure. However, the more you perform PFLs the more confident you become that you will handle them well. The same is true of many of the "failures" that might occur.
As someone earlier commented, fortunately wings falling off are incredibly rare, and when they do, it is usually the result of your over stressing the airframe (the typical IMC spiral dive).
So console yourself wish the fact that if you are in practice, and avoid flying in poor weather or are trained to fly IMC, there should be few things in light aircraft that aren’t manageable.
If you look at the statistics, the biggest threats to life and limb are accidents that are connected with flight in instrument conditions.
Of course no one wants engine, electrical, vac or any other type of failure. You can weight the odds very heavily in your favour by being careful from who you rent, or by joining a group or owning your own aircraft, so you can be confident about the quality of maintenance and of the pilot operators. Unfortunately the standard of some flying school aircraft is poor. Combine this with the hard use they get and the temptation for them to carry defects and you should expect there to be a greater incident of minor failures.
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Also this might sound very stupid, but my teacher has done 2 engine faillure landings, and 2 times he just landed and walked away without any injuries. One of these 2 was with a student pilot who is still flying...
This gives me great confidence that at least, in an emergency i have a good chance that this guy isn't gonna 'freak out' and flip...
do you have enough confidence in your teacher ??
This gives me great confidence that at least, in an emergency i have a good chance that this guy isn't gonna 'freak out' and flip...
do you have enough confidence in your teacher ??
Blah Blah Blah
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FLCH
Tell me about it!!! it almost stopped me from flying at the 49 hour mark. it is not usual to get all 3 common types of failures in such a short period of time!!
Thankfully I have stuck it out, and I feel it has made me a more confident and possibly a better pilot (should i put my tin hat on).
I still get butterflies now and again about having another engine failure. I kind of deal with this by doing loads of PFL's. Typically I dedicate an hour a week to basic manouvers.
Slow flight
Stalls
Partial panel
Steep turns/evassive manouvers
PFL's (loads of them)
PFL's in the circuit are good especialy if you ask tower for a glide approach. That way you can play about with when you cut the power and really get to judge the aircrafts and your own abillity.
At the end of the day you need to check, check and re-check everything when preping for any flight and as long as you do that to the best of your ability you will be limiting the risks. And if in doubt don't fly or get an intsructor or another pliot that you trust to double check for you.
Tell me about it!!! it almost stopped me from flying at the 49 hour mark. it is not usual to get all 3 common types of failures in such a short period of time!!
Thankfully I have stuck it out, and I feel it has made me a more confident and possibly a better pilot (should i put my tin hat on).
I still get butterflies now and again about having another engine failure. I kind of deal with this by doing loads of PFL's. Typically I dedicate an hour a week to basic manouvers.
Slow flight
Stalls
Partial panel
Steep turns/evassive manouvers
PFL's (loads of them)
PFL's in the circuit are good especialy if you ask tower for a glide approach. That way you can play about with when you cut the power and really get to judge the aircrafts and your own abillity.
At the end of the day you need to check, check and re-check everything when preping for any flight and as long as you do that to the best of your ability you will be limiting the risks. And if in doubt don't fly or get an intsructor or another pliot that you trust to double check for you.
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Bit of a digression but after reading this by "gcolyer",
it reminded me of an incident some 25-30 years ago when someone nicked a plane from Biggin (I believe) and put it down with no damage in park with a lido near Stockwell?.
The "pilot" legged it and to my knowledge, was never caught.
Anyone remember this?
And I am not sure trying to stuff the plane in to some park in London is a great idea.
The "pilot" legged it and to my knowledge, was never caught.
Anyone remember this?
I've always found a good dose of nerves is quite a healthy asset in the cockpit.
It becomes a problem when the old adrenaline starts to affect your physical and mental performance. This is probably the stage where you need some extra advice.
Watching air crashes on you - tube is probably best avoided.
There is a risk attached to flying, but I always reckon it's less risky than sat on the couch with 20 B+H watching reality TV.
It becomes a problem when the old adrenaline starts to affect your physical and mental performance. This is probably the stage where you need some extra advice.
Watching air crashes on you - tube is probably best avoided.
There is a risk attached to flying, but I always reckon it's less risky than sat on the couch with 20 B+H watching reality TV.