Scared every time I go up
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: England
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Talking about looking for places to land during and emergency...I was bimbling along last saturday from Southend on Sea -> Stapleford -> Elestree -> deham...you get the idea for the route and I was thinking if I lost my engine where would I go.... the answer is you are pretty stuffed unless you are at a decent alltitude. The best option i thought would be to turn northerly and head for the fields on the outskirts of london. However at 2000 feet I still don't think I would have made it. And I am not sure trying to stuff the plane in to some park in London is a great idea.
I thought, that's why there are so many golfing facilities around ? ideal places to land ( in an emergency ) I'm sure you would be made very welcome
I thought, that's why there are so many golfing facilities around ? ideal places to land ( in an emergency ) I'm sure you would be made very welcome
20 years.
8000 hrs.
Still scares me f4rtless on odd occasions.
3 engine failures.
One on the ground (PHEW!)
One south of St Catherines Point, I.O.W. (Where is Martyn Kay, ex Debonair?)
One in a 757 at 1000 feet.
Never had a real accident except for the car crash 50 yds from the AME's house on the way to my annual medical. 18 months on the sick.
My own 'personal' plane is built like a brick sh1dhouse and is much more sturdy than our Ford Mondeo. Plane crash likelihood x plane crash survivability is greater than car crash likelihood x car crash survivability.
On the way to work (6 miles) there are 4 separate bunches of flowers at 4 different places marking the deaths of 4 different people killed on the roads.
If you stop flying you should have stopped driving first.
Moral of the story? Have a healthy respect for the technology and pay attention to the pre-flight and the rules of the air. Live longer flying and live more happily.
8000 hrs.
Still scares me f4rtless on odd occasions.
3 engine failures.
One on the ground (PHEW!)
One south of St Catherines Point, I.O.W. (Where is Martyn Kay, ex Debonair?)
One in a 757 at 1000 feet.
Never had a real accident except for the car crash 50 yds from the AME's house on the way to my annual medical. 18 months on the sick.
My own 'personal' plane is built like a brick sh1dhouse and is much more sturdy than our Ford Mondeo. Plane crash likelihood x plane crash survivability is greater than car crash likelihood x car crash survivability.
On the way to work (6 miles) there are 4 separate bunches of flowers at 4 different places marking the deaths of 4 different people killed on the roads.
If you stop flying you should have stopped driving first.
Moral of the story? Have a healthy respect for the technology and pay attention to the pre-flight and the rules of the air. Live longer flying and live more happily.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Age: 59
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What I am saying is that there are a lot of idiots out there - I do not want to get into an aircraft that has been over stressed and gone over Vne. When I hire an aircraft I want it to be top notch.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah people say never trust anyone in aviation but blimey you are taking that a little too far in my opinion. Agreed its not sensible taking an aircraft that has been overstressed for whatever reason, but you are never going to know that its, as you put it 'top notch', you have to put a certain amount of trust in other pilots and their conscience.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What I am saying
there are a lot of idiots out there
No, that is not what you were saying .. .. ..
and was not the question you asked.
I think you got the reply to the question we all thought you were asking.
The issues about the behaviour of a very few has been done to death on another thread and there doesnt seem to be much point starting that debate again if that is what you had in mind.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels - Twin Comanche PA39 - KA C90B
Age: 51
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do not want to get into an aircraft that has been over stressed and gone over Vne
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: He's on the limb to nowhere
Posts: 1,981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have found the reliability data for flying complex single engine piston aircraft now. It's on a NASA site at .. er, sorry new rules say I cannot provide the link
You will all just have to trust me. The figures are based on the probability that the airframe and engine will succesfully complete a 700mile flight.Airframe 99.940%
Engine 99.986%
Surprisingly to me anyway, at first glance the engine appears more reliable than the airframe, but I suspect it might not be a significant difference.
Looking at NTSB accident rates, and again you have to trust me on this, in 1997 accross the whole US, the accident rate due to airframe failure was given as approx 0.3 per 100,000 hours flown. The fatal accident rate due to airframe failure was given as approx 0.08 per 100,000 hours flown.
So now you have the figures, decide for yourself whether the risk of parts falling off is worth the reward.
Of course, people are scared of flying on airlines, and the same people also know it's the safest form of transport out there. So there is a psychological issue here which statistics will not fix.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: london
Posts: 676
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I always have 'butterflies' before a flight, as I used to when I raced cars - I've always thought that flying light aircraft a far more effective remedy for constipation than senacot.
I only remember two races where I was completely calm and relaxed before a race (Donnington Park and Mallory Park) and on both occasions I had quite big accidents. Butterflies = a little adrenalin and that (in moderation) is a good thing.
If ever I get to the stage where I approach the a/c with no jitters and in a state of complete calm, I know from experience that I'm in for trouble....
I only remember two races where I was completely calm and relaxed before a race (Donnington Park and Mallory Park) and on both occasions I had quite big accidents. Butterflies = a little adrenalin and that (in moderation) is a good thing.
If ever I get to the stage where I approach the a/c with no jitters and in a state of complete calm, I know from experience that I'm in for trouble....
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Surrey
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fuji,
You normally seem to have things buttoned up pretty well. But this statement from your post is completely wrong.
"If you look at the statistics, the biggest threats to life and limb are accidents that are connected with flight in instrument conditions."
The biggest factor in fatal accidents in UK and US is stall/spin in VMC from less than 500ft. A very small proportion of fatals is related to IMC, these being loss of control followed by death spiral, or CFIT. Virtually all midairs are in VMC, most in the ATZ, but are still a small proportion of fatals. Fatals, as 'slim shag' says, are rarely following engine/airframe problems, and are nearly always due to pilot error.
Back to the thread. A lot of good posts reflect that, like everything else in life, safety depends on YOU, not on the averages of others. 'gcollier' had an extraordinary rate of aircraft engine/airframe problems, but he's still alive! He must have been victim of a very slack maintenance regime from where he got the aircraft.
In 37 years, 1400hrs private flying, I have NEVER had an engine/airframe problem in flight, only avionics. But I have never flown an aircraft with more that 1000hrs TTSN. When I learned, the flight school had a fleet of new C150s, and thereafter I only flew my own aircraft. Even in my R22 for460hrs I never had a fault.
Perhaps more surprising to the 'establishment', is that for the last 16 years I have over 600hrs in a plastic home built hot-ship on permit, which gives me a comfortable 170KIAS cruise with a standard O-320 Warrior engine. Perhaps I get no failures because I can do the maintenance myself!
You normally seem to have things buttoned up pretty well. But this statement from your post is completely wrong.
"If you look at the statistics, the biggest threats to life and limb are accidents that are connected with flight in instrument conditions."
The biggest factor in fatal accidents in UK and US is stall/spin in VMC from less than 500ft. A very small proportion of fatals is related to IMC, these being loss of control followed by death spiral, or CFIT. Virtually all midairs are in VMC, most in the ATZ, but are still a small proportion of fatals. Fatals, as 'slim shag' says, are rarely following engine/airframe problems, and are nearly always due to pilot error.
Back to the thread. A lot of good posts reflect that, like everything else in life, safety depends on YOU, not on the averages of others. 'gcollier' had an extraordinary rate of aircraft engine/airframe problems, but he's still alive! He must have been victim of a very slack maintenance regime from where he got the aircraft.
In 37 years, 1400hrs private flying, I have NEVER had an engine/airframe problem in flight, only avionics. But I have never flown an aircraft with more that 1000hrs TTSN. When I learned, the flight school had a fleet of new C150s, and thereafter I only flew my own aircraft. Even in my R22 for460hrs I never had a fault.
Perhaps more surprising to the 'establishment', is that for the last 16 years I have over 600hrs in a plastic home built hot-ship on permit, which gives me a comfortable 170KIAS cruise with a standard O-320 Warrior engine. Perhaps I get no failures because I can do the maintenance myself!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maders UK
Age: 57
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"'gcollier' had an extraordinary rate of aircraft engine/airframe problems, but he's still alive! He must have been victim of a very slack maintenance regime from where he got the aircraft.
In 37 years, 1400hrs private flying, I have NEVER had an engine/airframe problem in flight, only avionics. But I have never flown an aircraft with more that 1000hrs TTSN. When I learned, the flight school had a fleet of new C150s, and thereafter I only flew my own aircraft. Even in my R22 for460hrs I never had a fault.
Perhaps more surprising to the 'establishment', is that for the last 16 years I have over 600hrs in a plastic home built hot-ship on permit, which gives me a comfortable 170KIAS cruise with a standard O-320 Warrior engine. Perhaps I get no failures because I can do the maintenance myself!"
Gcolyer, I would be considering sabotage if my record of a/c problems was as rich a seam as yours!! Someone is clearly out to get you.
MikeJ I have 1500h TT F/W and Helicopter, no engine failures, a little rough running in a kitplane I used to own and maintained myself (clearly not as well as I should have!) but zilch else.
Age and mechanical condition of the aircraft is the single most important factor IMHO.
Basically if your aircraft resembles a car you wouldn't trust to not shake itself apart at 90mph in the fast lane of the M1 then don't fly it! Simple as ...
Oh how most UK flying schools would suffer if pilots refused to fly crappy old wreckage, they might even have to invest in some new aircraft, god forbid!
SB
In 37 years, 1400hrs private flying, I have NEVER had an engine/airframe problem in flight, only avionics. But I have never flown an aircraft with more that 1000hrs TTSN. When I learned, the flight school had a fleet of new C150s, and thereafter I only flew my own aircraft. Even in my R22 for460hrs I never had a fault.
Perhaps more surprising to the 'establishment', is that for the last 16 years I have over 600hrs in a plastic home built hot-ship on permit, which gives me a comfortable 170KIAS cruise with a standard O-320 Warrior engine. Perhaps I get no failures because I can do the maintenance myself!"
Gcolyer, I would be considering sabotage if my record of a/c problems was as rich a seam as yours!! Someone is clearly out to get you.
MikeJ I have 1500h TT F/W and Helicopter, no engine failures, a little rough running in a kitplane I used to own and maintained myself (clearly not as well as I should have!
) but zilch else.Age and mechanical condition of the aircraft is the single most important factor IMHO.
Basically if your aircraft resembles a car you wouldn't trust to not shake itself apart at 90mph in the fast lane of the M1 then don't fly it! Simple as ...
Oh how most UK flying schools would suffer if pilots refused to fly crappy old wreckage, they might even have to invest in some new aircraft, god forbid!
SB
Back to the 'butterflies' and nerves part of this topic.
Think about the way you feel when you are mildly nervous.
Think about the way you feel when you are vaguely excited.
There isn't a difference, it's only what you choose to call it.
That sounds horribly Southern Californian, for which I apologise, but it's true - the physical sensations are pretty much the same.
So, you decide, are you excited or are you nervous?
Think about the way you feel when you are mildly nervous.
Think about the way you feel when you are vaguely excited.
There isn't a difference, it's only what you choose to call it.
That sounds horribly Southern Californian, for which I apologise, but it's true - the physical sensations are pretty much the same.
So, you decide, are you excited or are you nervous?
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
Al, you have gone from
to
This seems to result from
and fear of hiring an aircraft that is not
Well, it seems that the best things that you could do would be to a) stop reading this forum and b) get your own plane.
Then enjoy your flying.
Otherwise stop flying.
Sorted
SD
mild insecurity
very scared of flying
reading this forum
top notch
Then enjoy your flying.
Otherwise stop flying.
Sorted
SD
Guest
Posts: n/a
only 100 hours, and I am very scared of flying. you guys do not make me feel any more secure.
either:
buy a brand new plane and be the only one who flies it, or
fly a plane that can't be broken easily - like an extra 300 or something.
although they are always pushed really hard. maybe you should have hypnosis.......
Blah Blah Blah
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Malmesbury VRP
Age: 49
Posts: 927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All my failures bar 2 have been in different aircraft and from different organisations!
I guess some people have all the luck and others don't, I guess I am in the later catagory!
I guess some people have all the luck and others don't, I guess I am in the later catagory!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: He's on the limb to nowhere
Posts: 1,981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps you just notice them? Also, now I think of it, I have had these sort of thing happen but forgotten about them. Perhaps that explains things too. I think these small things are more common than people think, they just don't turn into major events (due to training and engineering).