Student/Instructor Feedback
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Student/Instructor Feedback
Hi all
Had a lesson this weekend with a different instructor than the usual one and am most unimpressed
In fact its the first lesson in 20 or so hours that I haven't enjoyed. New chap didnt bother checking where I was up to in my logbook, assumed I knew lots of stuff that I didnt and was decidedly curt with me when I asked for help and advice.
Not sure if I got this guy on a bad day, but his attitude had me on edge and hence my flying - and landing - suffered as a result.
Obviously I will avoid flying with this chap again, but it got me thinking: other than "voting with my feet" there isnt really any proper way that I can give the school feedback regarding this instructor. If my normal instructor asks how it went I will be honest with him, but I was wondering if any of the other schools out there have facility for feedback from students, and if so what form does it take?
Apologies if this sounds like Im having a gripe!, just wanted to discuss the problem with you folks that have presumably been in a similar situation?!
cheers
GullWing
Had a lesson this weekend with a different instructor than the usual one and am most unimpressed
In fact its the first lesson in 20 or so hours that I haven't enjoyed. New chap didnt bother checking where I was up to in my logbook, assumed I knew lots of stuff that I didnt and was decidedly curt with me when I asked for help and advice.Not sure if I got this guy on a bad day, but his attitude had me on edge and hence my flying - and landing - suffered as a result.
Obviously I will avoid flying with this chap again, but it got me thinking: other than "voting with my feet" there isnt really any proper way that I can give the school feedback regarding this instructor. If my normal instructor asks how it went I will be honest with him, but I was wondering if any of the other schools out there have facility for feedback from students, and if so what form does it take?
Apologies if this sounds like Im having a gripe!, just wanted to discuss the problem with you folks that have presumably been in a similar situation?!
cheers
GullWing
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Student/instructor feedback
My memories of club instructors are of some great guys who were to become mentors to me as an ,initially,nervous student.One who stands out from the rest was Derrick Murdoch,Sherwood Flying Club,who eventially sent me off on my first solo. I also remember the rude,arrogant one(no names no pack drill,) who would often climb out of the a/c after my lessons and go off and talk with his mates.No debrief,no encouragement. I suppose you are going to find this sort of thing occasionally but don't focus on the rude one look to the gooduns.
Wow Derrick Murdoch (RIP), alvin, that takes me back and I think I can guess who the other one was!!
Just to say also that Sherwood Flying Club at Nottingham (thats Tollerton EGBN NOT EMA!) celebrate their 50th anniversary this July - we are planning a celebration so watch this space etc!
Fly Safe!
Just to say also that Sherwood Flying Club at Nottingham (thats Tollerton EGBN NOT EMA!) celebrate their 50th anniversary this July - we are planning a celebration so watch this space etc!
Fly Safe!
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My first instructor (gliding) never told me when I did something right, only when I did something wrong. This is, of course, the worst possible way to teach. When I got a more positive instructor, things went much faster.
Don't take it personally, and vote with your feet if you don't find the instructor helpful and encouraging. The school/club will soon get the idea.
Don't take it personally, and vote with your feet if you don't find the instructor helpful and encouraging. The school/club will soon get the idea.
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It's not a good thing if you haven't enjoyed the lesson on differing levels, from you think you have wasted your money to you have not taken that next step forwards.
Different people have different personalities, that is human life, but instructors in all walks of the training life fall into different categories. When you were at school was there a really boring teacher, and another that made the subject fun and "light up". Which one had taught you more?
To go back to flying, instructors fall into different groups. There are those that are just taking the money and building the hours up until Ryanair tell them to come and sit in the right hand seat of a 737. They are generally a product of one of the "sausage factories" and have not spent anytime as a normal ppl, you know, club life and the £100 bacon butty. As they have not enjoyed the club ppl route they have no idea how to nurture someone, all they have to go off is the way they were taught, which is as fast and blunt as possible. There are those at the other end of the spectrum that have been instructing for so long that they have become fed up of it. Let's be fair, if you had 10,000 hours over the last 30 years, and 9,000 of them was either trial lessons or circuit bashing you'd be bored too. Finally there are those that have had a ppl for a few years and then decided to go further and start to teach. These are the good guys, they remember what it was like when they learnt and are generally a lot more supportive and in my opinion make good instructors.
The fundamental point that you raise is one of confrontation. As a nation we don't like it. People like Simon Cowell are held in esteem (of sorts) because he doesn't mind it and will lambast someone if they deserve it. Alan Sugar is the same, as is Philip Green. You get the picture here, these people are rich for a reason, if someone tries to rip them off they don't have it and get stuck in. I am the same, only not as rich sadly, but for certain if I had just paid over £100 and got no benefit as the guy was out of order he would have found out about it quickly. I once actually ordered a CFI to land as I was getting fed up of his hair splitting in the circuit. Nice enough bloke but the way he went on I was paying for him to practice crosswind landings, that I had already done!! So when I said let's land and he said no I want to show you this as you are ballsing it up all the time (I wasn't) and we went for the 4th circuit with him flying and me enjoying an expensive pleasure flight I told him to land as after the next landing I wasn't paying anymore. I told him in the air and we landed, and then he got both barrels
With some folk that is the only way. If you don't like doing that, have a quiet word with the CFI though, you might not be the only one!!
Different people have different personalities, that is human life, but instructors in all walks of the training life fall into different categories. When you were at school was there a really boring teacher, and another that made the subject fun and "light up". Which one had taught you more?
To go back to flying, instructors fall into different groups. There are those that are just taking the money and building the hours up until Ryanair tell them to come and sit in the right hand seat of a 737. They are generally a product of one of the "sausage factories" and have not spent anytime as a normal ppl, you know, club life and the £100 bacon butty. As they have not enjoyed the club ppl route they have no idea how to nurture someone, all they have to go off is the way they were taught, which is as fast and blunt as possible. There are those at the other end of the spectrum that have been instructing for so long that they have become fed up of it. Let's be fair, if you had 10,000 hours over the last 30 years, and 9,000 of them was either trial lessons or circuit bashing you'd be bored too. Finally there are those that have had a ppl for a few years and then decided to go further and start to teach. These are the good guys, they remember what it was like when they learnt and are generally a lot more supportive and in my opinion make good instructors.
The fundamental point that you raise is one of confrontation. As a nation we don't like it. People like Simon Cowell are held in esteem (of sorts) because he doesn't mind it and will lambast someone if they deserve it. Alan Sugar is the same, as is Philip Green. You get the picture here, these people are rich for a reason, if someone tries to rip them off they don't have it and get stuck in. I am the same, only not as rich sadly, but for certain if I had just paid over £100 and got no benefit as the guy was out of order he would have found out about it quickly. I once actually ordered a CFI to land as I was getting fed up of his hair splitting in the circuit. Nice enough bloke but the way he went on I was paying for him to practice crosswind landings, that I had already done!! So when I said let's land and he said no I want to show you this as you are ballsing it up all the time (I wasn't) and we went for the 4th circuit with him flying and me enjoying an expensive pleasure flight I told him to land as after the next landing I wasn't paying anymore. I told him in the air and we landed, and then he got both barrels
With some folk that is the only way. If you don't like doing that, have a quiet word with the CFI though, you might not be the only one!!
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Thanks for the helpful and heartening replies.
Cumulogranite;
i agree there is a lot to be said for confrontation but being typically british it isn't my favoured way of dealing with such matters!
Although I didnt enjoy the lesson I did still learn from it, so am not overly unhappy to part with my £100(+).
What concerns me is that some students may only experience instructors like this. I have been lucky and have previously had a number of instructors with real enthusiasm for both teaching AND flying. (This brought me onto the idea of feedback, in some sense like the teacher/lecturer appraisal forms we got to fill in at school and uni. If any flying schools have any kind of feedback system I'd love to hear of it.
Thanks again
GullWing
PS While we are celebrating good instructors; come back Paul Fearnside, all is forgiven
Cumulogranite;
i agree there is a lot to be said for confrontation but being typically british it isn't my favoured way of dealing with such matters!
Although I didnt enjoy the lesson I did still learn from it, so am not overly unhappy to part with my £100(+).
What concerns me is that some students may only experience instructors like this. I have been lucky and have previously had a number of instructors with real enthusiasm for both teaching AND flying. (This brought me onto the idea of feedback, in some sense like the teacher/lecturer appraisal forms we got to fill in at school and uni. If any flying schools have any kind of feedback system I'd love to hear of it.
Thanks again
GullWing
PS While we are celebrating good instructors; come back Paul Fearnside, all is forgiven
Last edited by GullWing; 22nd Apr 2007 at 13:08. Reason: typos
Why do it if it's not fun?
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GullWing,
As an instructor who worked (at a previous job) with a couple of instructors whose styles might be described as less-than-perfect, I have a few comments.
First of all, appreciate that we are all different - and by that, I mean both instructors and students. You clearly did not get on well with this instructor, but that doesn't mean is not an excellent instructor, and you might well find that other students of his get on perfectly well with him.
That aside, you should definitely have a quiet, non-confrontational word with the school's manager or CFI. If this is a genuine problem with this particular instructor, and not just a personality clash between the two of you, you will most likely find that the CFI is already aware of it, but he will definitely welcome your input.
I can think of one particular ex-colleague of mine whose style put a lot of students on edge. Once this had been brought to the attention of the manager, he sat down with a number of students who had all refused to fly with the instructor, and heard their side of the story. Then, he sat down with the instructor and presented him with examples of what his students had said. The instructor's attitude changed overnight, and everyone came out on top - but only because the students were open and honest about the problems.
As for your regular instructor, of course you should be honest if he asks how the lesson went, but don't expect anything to be done as a result of this. He certainly won't want to get involved in "office politics" by bad-mouthing his colleague to his boss on your behalf. I'm afraid you'll have to do that yourself.
Good luck with the rest of your training!
FFF
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As an instructor who worked (at a previous job) with a couple of instructors whose styles might be described as less-than-perfect, I have a few comments.
First of all, appreciate that we are all different - and by that, I mean both instructors and students. You clearly did not get on well with this instructor, but that doesn't mean is not an excellent instructor, and you might well find that other students of his get on perfectly well with him.
That aside, you should definitely have a quiet, non-confrontational word with the school's manager or CFI. If this is a genuine problem with this particular instructor, and not just a personality clash between the two of you, you will most likely find that the CFI is already aware of it, but he will definitely welcome your input.
I can think of one particular ex-colleague of mine whose style put a lot of students on edge. Once this had been brought to the attention of the manager, he sat down with a number of students who had all refused to fly with the instructor, and heard their side of the story. Then, he sat down with the instructor and presented him with examples of what his students had said. The instructor's attitude changed overnight, and everyone came out on top - but only because the students were open and honest about the problems.
As for your regular instructor, of course you should be honest if he asks how the lesson went, but don't expect anything to be done as a result of this. He certainly won't want to get involved in "office politics" by bad-mouthing his colleague to his boss on your behalf. I'm afraid you'll have to do that yourself.
Good luck with the rest of your training!
FFF
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FFF,
Thanks for your comments. I am aware that we are all different and that some students may indeed prefer my aforementioned instructor to any other at the school.
This again brings me back to the idea of some sort of mandatory internal feedback - it need only be a very simple process, my aim is not to slow us up with even more paperwork!
If all the students felt the same way then it would be quickly obvious that there was a problem. If not, and only a small percentage of pupils were unhappy, then obviously all is well and the problems could be put down to personality differences or whatever.
this is just a low hours PPL student musing though, what do the rest of you think?
cheers
GW
Thanks for your comments. I am aware that we are all different and that some students may indeed prefer my aforementioned instructor to any other at the school.
This again brings me back to the idea of some sort of mandatory internal feedback - it need only be a very simple process, my aim is not to slow us up with even more paperwork!
If all the students felt the same way then it would be quickly obvious that there was a problem. If not, and only a small percentage of pupils were unhappy, then obviously all is well and the problems could be put down to personality differences or whatever.
this is just a low hours PPL student musing though, what do the rest of you think?
cheers
GW
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The problem in that is one of method of instruction. (I am trained in driving instruction) Some people are keenly focused and wil only need telling something once, others will need to repeat an exercise 4 or 5 times until they get it. For instance, a 17 year old apprentice mechanic will need less training on clutch control than an 80 year old granny. Then there comes the issue of how to teach. Some people respond well to a guiding hand, others to a big stick. (I fall into the big stick category, something to do with how they taught me at school) It would be very easy for an instructor to get it wrong, if he has been using the stick all day it is easy to carry on using it when the kid gloves should be out.
All that said there are a couple of differences where flying training is concerned, first is the fact that it is properly expensive and that fact should never be forgottten by an instructor, it is your cash and you can spend it where you like. The other is that 90% of students are driven to get the ppl (there are the odd kids with pushy parents of course) and therefore shouldn't need the stick really. It is a judgement call from the instructor, if you feel that he has made a bad judgement then tell the CFI!
All that said there are a couple of differences where flying training is concerned, first is the fact that it is properly expensive and that fact should never be forgottten by an instructor, it is your cash and you can spend it where you like. The other is that 90% of students are driven to get the ppl (there are the odd kids with pushy parents of course) and therefore shouldn't need the stick really. It is a judgement call from the instructor, if you feel that he has made a bad judgement then tell the CFI!
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have a quiet word with the CFI though, you might not be the only one!!
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Student/instructor feedback
Hi Robert, a 50th anniversary celebration Sherwood Flying Club,I'll have some of that.As you said,I'll watch this space for details.I take it Derrick Murdoch is flying on a higher plain now then,as you said RIP.
One of my fond memories of Derrick was when he was recounting how he was "courting" a lady in some woods in his younger days when they encounted a flasher and Derrick chased him off, all this whilst demonstrating a steep turn above the said woods.I was in tucks. Discretion forbids me from giving the exact lurid account of what the flasher did. Happy days
One of my fond memories of Derrick was when he was recounting how he was "courting" a lady in some woods in his younger days when they encounted a flasher and Derrick chased him off, all this whilst demonstrating a steep turn above the said woods.I was in tucks. Discretion forbids me from giving the exact lurid account of what the flasher did. Happy days
Sadly Derrick passed away suddenly quite a few years ago after a sudden heart attack but the story you relate was quite typical of him! He was a stalwart member of the club and did a lot of instruction for us - Happy Days!
