Right to land
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cant believe the arrogance of some posters here. If an airfield is closed, its closed for good reason. If the requirement is for PPR, then why not do it Hardly difficult is it? Some airfields, Duxford for example, often have high performance aircraft carrying out display practice overhead, and the last thing i would want is somebody blundering through my sequence without an appreciation of what's happening in the circuit. Sadly something that is all too frequent these
I suspect you may be confusing a phone call for PPR, with calling up on the radio before landing.
PPR is PPR - if you have to do it then fair enough, but it's also reasonable to question the justification for it. I suspect it's for planning permission reasons in most cases (i.e. NIMBYs) and nothing to do with operations. Most airfields would like all the business they can possibly get; if you look at the runway/taxiway condition they could pretty obviously use the money.
Shoreham, incidentally, has a movements limit imposed by planning. Same as Farnborough, though the latter is a far lower figure.
I suspect you may be confusing a phone call for PPR, with calling up on the radio before landing.
PPR is PPR - if you have to do it then fair enough, but it's also reasonable to question the justification for it. I suspect it's for planning permission reasons in most cases (i.e. NIMBYs) and nothing to do with operations. Most airfields would like all the business they can possibly get; if you look at the runway/taxiway condition they could pretty obviously use the money.
Shoreham, incidentally, has a movements limit imposed by planning. Same as Farnborough, though the latter is a far lower figure.
Try Rule 35 of the Rules of the Air Regulations for a start
An aircraft shall not taxi on the apron or the manoeuvring area of an aerodrome without the permission of the person in charge of the aerodrome or, where the aerodrome has an air traffic control unit or an aerodrome flight information service unit for the time being notified as being on watch, without the permission of that unit.
The definition of an aerodrome being "Any area of land or water designed, equipped, set apart or commonly used for affording facilities for the landing and departure of aircraft and includes any area or space, whether on the ground, on the roof of a building or elsewhere, which is designed, equipped or set apart for affording facilities for the landing and departure of aircraft capable of descending or climbing vertically, but shall not include any area the use of which for affording facilities for the landing and departure of aircraft has been abandoned and has not been resumed."
Whilst this does not specifically prevent an aircraft from landing at an aerodrome without permission, it is difficult to see what, apart from a touch-and-go, you could do after landing that would not involve taxying on the 'apron or maneouvring area'
An aircraft shall not taxi on the apron or the manoeuvring area of an aerodrome without the permission of the person in charge of the aerodrome or, where the aerodrome has an air traffic control unit or an aerodrome flight information service unit for the time being notified as being on watch, without the permission of that unit.
The definition of an aerodrome being "Any area of land or water designed, equipped, set apart or commonly used for affording facilities for the landing and departure of aircraft and includes any area or space, whether on the ground, on the roof of a building or elsewhere, which is designed, equipped or set apart for affording facilities for the landing and departure of aircraft capable of descending or climbing vertically, but shall not include any area the use of which for affording facilities for the landing and departure of aircraft has been abandoned and has not been resumed."
Whilst this does not specifically prevent an aircraft from landing at an aerodrome without permission, it is difficult to see what, apart from a touch-and-go, you could do after landing that would not involve taxying on the 'apron or maneouvring area'
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Bordeaux, France
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I was flying in France, I tried to phone ahead as I usually do in the UK. But the French thought I was nuts - the attitude seemed to be that if it was an airfield you could fly there. I like it in theory...but if the airfield is in controlled airspace, and doesn't reply when you call on the radio because it's lunch time.....well, that's another story, probably for another thread.
Whirly, Unless you are calling the tower at a full ATC aerodrome, the number in the VAC is probably the aeroclub who run/look after the aerodrome (as is the case where I fly from), and the person you call may not be anywhere near the airfield!!
Thanks to those who answered my query,
Regards, SD..
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
Posts: 2,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is nothing to stop you telephoning and asking permission to land out of hours, it will just mean that the usual safetly measures will not be in place. (Fire, radio etc)
Duxford's entry states that everyone has to telephone for PPR and a special briefing and it doesn't matter how many times you have visited previously it makes a lot of sense to do so as they often have their warbirds practising and I for one would not like to get tangled up with them.
Only for the last bacon butty 
Duxford's entry states that everyone has to telephone for PPR and a special briefing and it doesn't matter how many times you have visited previously it makes a lot of sense to do so as they often have their warbirds practising and I for one would not like to get tangled up with them.
London City won't permit '.......... and fights for recreation'.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maders UK
Age: 57
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indemnity Movements
To complicate things further some airfields will accept you "out of hours" as an insurance indemnity. (Provided they are happy with your insurance documents, certain weather minima are met and it is daytime).
You usually have to be based there but moaning ad nauseam can occasionally open doors.
I rarely arrive and depart during "open" hours at one the the fields I regularly commute into as I need to be at work earlier than ATC start and usually finish work later than they finish.
Am I in the wrong job?
SB
You usually have to be based there but moaning ad nauseam can occasionally open doors.
I rarely arrive and depart during "open" hours at one the the fields I regularly commute into as I need to be at work earlier than ATC start and usually finish work later than they finish.
Am I in the wrong job?
SB
London City is (obviously) a licenced airfield. At weekends they close from 1230 Saturday to 1230 Sunday, and at that time it is unlicenced it would appear.
Once a year they have their "Fun day" on the Saturday afternoon, with light aircraft in, aerobatics, etc. Yet though the guys are up in the tower and all is above board they revert to A/G radio only and always are precise to correct anybody coming in (PPR of course) who calls them by their normal callsigns. Makes me wonder what happens and whether they go unlicenced for the afternoon for some reason.
Once a year they have their "Fun day" on the Saturday afternoon, with light aircraft in, aerobatics, etc. Yet though the guys are up in the tower and all is above board they revert to A/G radio only and always are precise to correct anybody coming in (PPR of course) who calls them by their normal callsigns. Makes me wonder what happens and whether they go unlicenced for the afternoon for some reason.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Duxford's entry states that everyone has to telephone for PPR and a special briefing and it doesn't matter how many times you have visited previously it makes a lot of sense to do so as they often have their warbirds practising and I for one would not like to get tangled up with them.
If you happen to be passing by, and they are not practising, or as is often the case, there are only a few visitors, why should the tower not clear you to land? If they are practising, they can of course tell you sorry not today I am afraid, or, we have aircraft in the circuit, are you familiar with our procedures? It really isnt rocket science as proven by places such as Headcorn where you can pitch up most any time with parachuting, aeros in the overhead and plenty of other things going on.
In most other countries this does not go on, and I suspect would not be tolerated. When it gets to the points that you cant fly any where without filing a flight plan, notifying customs, notifying the police, 'phoning to tell them you are coming (and going), asked not to forget your yellow jacket etc I suspect most people will have hung up their headsets permanently.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 1,234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Right to land? I read the title and thought - not on my strip you don't. But on 'public airfields? The situation is a little different and certainly during notified hours I do wonder about the whole PPR by phone, 'special briefing' thing.
What is so complicated? Tour France (or most other European countires) and you'll find airfields that integrate parachuting, aerobatics, the military and scheduled carriers with GA. No PPR beyond asking for instructions on the radio.
Try to land at places like Humberside and if you're within 10 minutes of a scheduled flight it becomes a major emergency. If one of our local MATZ has an air experience flight within it they 'refuse' crossing permission!
If you can't see WW2 heavy metal swooping through a circuit and cannot hear the radio then probably you should n't be flying. I suspect the special instructions are very simple (well they should be...) as for having to hold a couple of miles away? Is this hard?
What is so complicated? Tour France (or most other European countires) and you'll find airfields that integrate parachuting, aerobatics, the military and scheduled carriers with GA. No PPR beyond asking for instructions on the radio.
Try to land at places like Humberside and if you're within 10 minutes of a scheduled flight it becomes a major emergency. If one of our local MATZ has an air experience flight within it they 'refuse' crossing permission!
If you can't see WW2 heavy metal swooping through a circuit and cannot hear the radio then probably you should n't be flying. I suspect the special instructions are very simple (well they should be...) as for having to hold a couple of miles away? Is this hard?
