Private/Public Transport C of A differences, PA 30 B Twin Comanche
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Private/Public Transport C of A differences, PA 30 B Twin Comanche
hi guys,
i am looking for information on what are the practical differences between a private c of a and a public transport c of a for a uk registered and operated light twin from a pilots/owners point of view?
things like differences in maintenance requirements/costs.
what you can or cannot do with the aircraft operationally(ifr/night/etc?).
how easy/expensive it is to change from a private to a public transport c of a and the pros and cons of doing so.
and more specifically both annual and hourly costs involved in owning and operating a private c of a piper pa 30 b twin comanche in the uk if anyone has this info?
does this aircraft qualify for airways charges?
thanks in advance for any info,
StraightLevel.
i am looking for information on what are the practical differences between a private c of a and a public transport c of a for a uk registered and operated light twin from a pilots/owners point of view?
things like differences in maintenance requirements/costs.
what you can or cannot do with the aircraft operationally(ifr/night/etc?).
how easy/expensive it is to change from a private to a public transport c of a and the pros and cons of doing so.
and more specifically both annual and hourly costs involved in owning and operating a private c of a piper pa 30 b twin comanche in the uk if anyone has this info?
does this aircraft qualify for airways charges?
thanks in advance for any info,
StraightLevel.
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I am sure others familiar with the type will answer in more detail, but there is no diff between private cat and transport cat maintenance regimes as to what airspace / rules you can fly under.
The legal operational differences are basically
Transport
Need a 50hr check done by a JAR145 company (£250-£500) and this needs to be done after 6 months if you have done < 50hrs in the 6m.
Need a 150hr check, as above, cost similar to an Annual for most types.
More onerous maintenance requirements; less discretionary stuff, and tighter paperwork rules on what is installed.
The above translates into a substantially higher operating costs. Some of the differences can get silly if you fit expensive parts; I recall paying £11,000 for a prop (with a JAR1 form) which would have been available for US$9,000 (with an 8130-3 form) for a Private cat aircraft, but this was in 2002. I used to do ~ 150hrs/year and used to roll up the 150hr check into the Annual - this can be worth doing even if it means not flying for a few weeks each year.
Private
Pilot can do the 50hr check, but no AD work (cost ~ £100, plus a few hours' work).
No 150hr check.
Can't rent it out.
Can't train in it for the initial aware of a license or a rating, unless owned outright by the student or his spouse.
Can't run a share group around it exceeding 20 members
As for going Private -> Transport, I looked into this once and it's just the cost of a new CofA and a new Transport-level Annual, if the plane used to be on Transport (nearly all planes are on Transport CofA when brand new; it's free) and nothing has been done to it since. Otherwise, a lot of stuff has to be removed/replaced as necessary to get the paperwork, or has to be recertified. There have been maintenance companies who would recertify a piece of kit (effectively write out a JAR1 form for it; a bit of a scam) for £500-£1000 per item. But this was a few years ago; I don't know about EASA rules. I'd check with a big maintenance shop which does a lot of EASA work.
AIUI, there is now only one CofA so a transfer from one to the other is done just by changing the maintenance regime. I don't know what happens if you have say a prop which was fitted without a JAR1 form... I suspect nobody will notice, and you just do the 50- and 150-hr checks to bring it up to date.
Now I am N-reg anyway. The cost is comparable with a Private Cat G-reg.
The legal operational differences are basically
Transport
Need a 50hr check done by a JAR145 company (£250-£500) and this needs to be done after 6 months if you have done < 50hrs in the 6m.
Need a 150hr check, as above, cost similar to an Annual for most types.
More onerous maintenance requirements; less discretionary stuff, and tighter paperwork rules on what is installed.
The above translates into a substantially higher operating costs. Some of the differences can get silly if you fit expensive parts; I recall paying £11,000 for a prop (with a JAR1 form) which would have been available for US$9,000 (with an 8130-3 form) for a Private cat aircraft, but this was in 2002. I used to do ~ 150hrs/year and used to roll up the 150hr check into the Annual - this can be worth doing even if it means not flying for a few weeks each year.
Private
Pilot can do the 50hr check, but no AD work (cost ~ £100, plus a few hours' work).
No 150hr check.
Can't rent it out.
Can't train in it for the initial aware of a license or a rating, unless owned outright by the student or his spouse.
Can't run a share group around it exceeding 20 members
As for going Private -> Transport, I looked into this once and it's just the cost of a new CofA and a new Transport-level Annual, if the plane used to be on Transport (nearly all planes are on Transport CofA when brand new; it's free) and nothing has been done to it since. Otherwise, a lot of stuff has to be removed/replaced as necessary to get the paperwork, or has to be recertified. There have been maintenance companies who would recertify a piece of kit (effectively write out a JAR1 form for it; a bit of a scam) for £500-£1000 per item. But this was a few years ago; I don't know about EASA rules. I'd check with a big maintenance shop which does a lot of EASA work.
AIUI, there is now only one CofA so a transfer from one to the other is done just by changing the maintenance regime. I don't know what happens if you have say a prop which was fitted without a JAR1 form... I suspect nobody will notice, and you just do the 50- and 150-hr checks to bring it up to date.
Now I am N-reg anyway. The cost is comparable with a Private Cat G-reg.
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PA-30 are among the better light twins that you can own. They are reliable if were looked after (after all the are about 40 years old) with very few recurrent ADs. You burn ~ 14gl/h and fly ~ 160kts. If the aircraft has tip tanks you can fill them and the main (90gl.) and load the aircraft as you have 60gl. only as the fuel in the tips does not count towards the W&B (I forgot the explanation but it is to do with the loads on the spar).
Most of the parts are readily available but some like the trim tab are more difficult. There is a support group 'International Comanche Society' (http://www.comancheflyer.com/) which can help you with advice.
In any case, before you buy make sure to pre check the aircraft by a mechanic that KNOWS the aircraft, there are some good shops in the UK, if you buy ask. The undercarriage, the elevator tube and bearings and the high sheer rivets needs to be inspected properly. Also, some of the twins can suffer from corrosion near the exhaust area. If you are looking to buy an Australian PA30 make sure to open the panels in the wing just behind the exhausts. The Australian CAA forced the Australian owners to cut in this inspection panel, as a result gases found there way in and attacked the spar. It is a great aircraft but like all machines it has its corners and you have to be aware of them, some in common with most light twins some are unique. In any case train yourself with an instructor that knows the aircraft and not one that says "All twins are the same and I have flown many".
Most of the parts are readily available but some like the trim tab are more difficult. There is a support group 'International Comanche Society' (http://www.comancheflyer.com/) which can help you with advice.
In any case, before you buy make sure to pre check the aircraft by a mechanic that KNOWS the aircraft, there are some good shops in the UK, if you buy ask. The undercarriage, the elevator tube and bearings and the high sheer rivets needs to be inspected properly. Also, some of the twins can suffer from corrosion near the exhaust area. If you are looking to buy an Australian PA30 make sure to open the panels in the wing just behind the exhausts. The Australian CAA forced the Australian owners to cut in this inspection panel, as a result gases found there way in and attacked the spar. It is a great aircraft but like all machines it has its corners and you have to be aware of them, some in common with most light twins some are unique. In any case train yourself with an instructor that knows the aircraft and not one that says "All twins are the same and I have flown many".
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BTW I was wrong about a Transport CofA plane needing a JAR145 firm for the 50/150hr checks.
Apparently, this is the case only for AOC operation. The next "grade" company down from that can do the checks. But they still cost a lot; I used to pay £500+VAT for a 50hr check (TB20) although it was in fact done by a JAR145 firm.
Apparently, this is the case only for AOC operation. The next "grade" company down from that can do the checks. But they still cost a lot; I used to pay £500+VAT for a 50hr check (TB20) although it was in fact done by a JAR145 firm.
