Best First Trainer ? C152 or C172 ?
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Best First Trainer ? C152 or C172 ?
Best First Trainer ? C152 or C172 ?
Many clubs are replacing their C152's to C172 for their training, a good idea ?
Many clubs are replacing their C152's to C172 for their training, a good idea ?
Well, they do not build C152s any more do they ? Those that are still around are a little elderly (20 years ?) to say the least. This, plus the fact that a couple of average blokes in a C152 does not leave much payload for fuel as well. Seriously, check the legal and practical weight limitations of training in a C152 with your instructor of choice before you commit yourself to £000s. Similar comments for the PA38 by the way.
And, after you get your licence issued what is the first thing you are probably going to do ? That's right, convert to a 4-seater so you can impress your mates and/or go places ! So why not start in a 4-seater from day one ? How about the PA28 ? Both this and the C172 also have better cross-wind limits than the old C152 I seem to recall.
All in all a good idea methinks.
And, after you get your licence issued what is the first thing you are probably going to do ? That's right, convert to a 4-seater so you can impress your mates and/or go places ! So why not start in a 4-seater from day one ? How about the PA28 ? Both this and the C172 also have better cross-wind limits than the old C152 I seem to recall.
All in all a good idea methinks.
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I would say a 152 because not only is it cheaper but also if you like aeros like me and your club has aerobats then your training was not all straight and level so it is more fun. I wouldnt like to try tiping a 172 upside down
David
David
Having started in a C-150, my advice would be the C-172 unless far more expensive.
The principal reason is climb rate.
Airwork, stalls, spins, forced and precautionary approaches will have you climbing up to safe altitude or circuit height before doing the next item. It takes much longer to get back to altitude in a C-150/152, especially in warmer weather. So while the rental rate is more, I suspect you get in more learning for your money.
C-150s tend to get bounced about quite a bit more in mechanical turbulence on approach which makes learning landings that much harder.
The principal reason is climb rate.
Airwork, stalls, spins, forced and precautionary approaches will have you climbing up to safe altitude or circuit height before doing the next item. It takes much longer to get back to altitude in a C-150/152, especially in warmer weather. So while the rental rate is more, I suspect you get in more learning for your money.
C-150s tend to get bounced about quite a bit more in mechanical turbulence on approach which makes learning landings that much harder.
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There's not enough in it to matter to a new trainee other than the cost. I was once told a 172 is basically a 152 +10 kts. That's close enough to accurate, I think.
Pitts2112
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To start training a 150/152 especially if its an aerobat .. I've been flying for nearly 20 years and still love the Cessna A150 It is strange how many pilots dont do aeros and of course you never will if you learn in a 172. Its always easier to go up a model too ...
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I've flown some nasty aircraft but none so nasty as a 150 (does the extra two make a difference?). A 172 though, whilst still not what you would call sexy or glamourous, is a very useful and honest aircraft. It is also just as easy to fly (maybe even easier) as its kid brother (or is it sister?) but more importantly, a lot more difficult to overload. Recycle 150/152's into beer cans and make them useful too!
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The most forgiving plane of them all is a 150 its easier to fly for a novice than a 172. The 152 is a little faster and some small differences but as someone who has flown in a few aircraft I will always hold the 150 in great stead. Peple who use the JAFFA (just another f*&king flying aeroplane) description dont enjoy it. Dont mock the 150 or 152 they have their rightful place in aviation history.
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I'm far from a great fan of the C150/2. It’s slow and if you have two average size blokes in it, you're almost sat on each others lap. But as far as a trainer goes, I think it does the job nicely- It’s easy and cheap to fly. Why waste your money training on the C172? Do you're training on the C150, get your PPL, then spend a couple of hours converting onto something a bit bigger and quicker like the C172.
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I dont see really any benefit paying more to fly a C172 over a C152, after you have your license its probably a small checkout ride in the C172...if you really want to do some hours in the C172 then ask to do a few flights in it at the latter stages of your training this way your getting 'checked' out on it while remaining in your current course structure...so effectively it saves you money.
Me personally, I would choose the C152 on cost alone. Planes, they all fly the same!
I would choose a PA38 over a C152 though, PA38 has some true characteristics and is a good aircraft to lay the foundations down. Its not really as forgiving as a C152 so you handle it with a little bit more care and attention.
Me personally, I would choose the C152 on cost alone. Planes, they all fly the same!
I would choose a PA38 over a C152 though, PA38 has some true characteristics and is a good aircraft to lay the foundations down. Its not really as forgiving as a C152 so you handle it with a little bit more care and attention.
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The PA38!!
With the PA38 it really depends if it is a nice one or not. I have flown a few PA38's and hated them all, other than G-OATS from Truman aviation (which got killed on a dodgey landing)
A PA38 is a little more tricky to fly than a 150/152 which could well make you a better pilot faster or it will p*** you off.
Back to the original question..... I would train in the 150/152 purley based on price. As everyone else says it is a quick checkride in a 172 later on. You will soon see GA is all about money and any penny you can save is worth keeping in your pocket until you really have to give it away.
With the PA38 it really depends if it is a nice one or not. I have flown a few PA38's and hated them all, other than G-OATS from Truman aviation (which got killed on a dodgey landing)
A PA38 is a little more tricky to fly than a 150/152 which could well make you a better pilot faster or it will p*** you off.
Back to the original question..... I would train in the 150/152 purley based on price. As everyone else says it is a quick checkride in a 172 later on. You will soon see GA is all about money and any penny you can save is worth keeping in your pocket until you really have to give it away.
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In my instructing experience, I found students transitioning 150 > 172 had a fairly easy time of it (172 was slightly more stable). However if they started on a 172 they always seemed to be overcontrolling the 150 until they got the hang of it. Based on this I recommended new students logging 15-20 hours in a 150 before transitioning to 172.
Mind you this was over 30 years ago...
Mind you this was over 30 years ago...
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When contacting flight schools they said if your over 5' 8" or 5' 9" in the 150 or 152... Doubt I'll ever fit in one... I'm 6' 2" and large frame 
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I strongly believe in learning in something close to what you will be flying after you get your PPL.
This will save you a good few hundred quid, as well as making you a safer and more confident pilot due to having 50-60hrs of currency on type on the very day you get the PPL.
Instructors tend to differ with this, saying that such and such a plane will make you a better pilot, etc. I have 20hrs in Tomahawks, hated most of it, and it certainly didn't make me a better pilot. The wild wing drops in the stall were fun and probably good value relative to an expensive fairground ride but in reality nobody is going to be anywhere near stalling (in normal operations) unless they have severely messed up, and that will happen only just before landing, and then one is too low to do anything about it anyway.
Go for the C172. A much more useful plane for going places, and taking others with you.
You will soon see GA is all about money and any penny you can save is worth keeping in your pocket until you really have to give it away
That's undoubtedly true for many or even most UK pilots, but then most UK pilots last a year or two, max, before chucking it in for good, for various reasons; a fundamentally insufficient budget from day 1 being one of the more common ones.
What keeps the long-term pilots in the game is IMHO something else - the enjoyment of flying and this has many facets. For example, if you can fly something bigger to France, with a few friends, and have a nice time of it, then your "return" on your "investment" will be much greater than it would be flying a C150 alone from Goodwood to Beachy Head and back, a few times before you get fed up with it - despite the bigger plane costing perhaps 30% to 50% more.
I worked through PA38s, C150s, C152, PA28s of various sorts, and ended up flying a TB20. Some 700hrs and an IR later, the biggest lesson I learnt in all this is that I wish I had known at the outset what I know now, about avoiding all the different ways to waste time and money in this game. If anybody asks me how they should do this, I always recommend having a real hard think about the future and taking a long term view.
This will save you a good few hundred quid, as well as making you a safer and more confident pilot due to having 50-60hrs of currency on type on the very day you get the PPL.
Instructors tend to differ with this, saying that such and such a plane will make you a better pilot, etc. I have 20hrs in Tomahawks, hated most of it, and it certainly didn't make me a better pilot. The wild wing drops in the stall were fun and probably good value relative to an expensive fairground ride but in reality nobody is going to be anywhere near stalling (in normal operations) unless they have severely messed up, and that will happen only just before landing, and then one is too low to do anything about it anyway.
Go for the C172. A much more useful plane for going places, and taking others with you.
You will soon see GA is all about money and any penny you can save is worth keeping in your pocket until you really have to give it away
That's undoubtedly true for many or even most UK pilots, but then most UK pilots last a year or two, max, before chucking it in for good, for various reasons; a fundamentally insufficient budget from day 1 being one of the more common ones.
What keeps the long-term pilots in the game is IMHO something else - the enjoyment of flying and this has many facets. For example, if you can fly something bigger to France, with a few friends, and have a nice time of it, then your "return" on your "investment" will be much greater than it would be flying a C150 alone from Goodwood to Beachy Head and back, a few times before you get fed up with it - despite the bigger plane costing perhaps 30% to 50% more.
I worked through PA38s, C150s, C152, PA28s of various sorts, and ended up flying a TB20. Some 700hrs and an IR later, the biggest lesson I learnt in all this is that I wish I had known at the outset what I know now, about avoiding all the different ways to waste time and money in this game. If anybody asks me how they should do this, I always recommend having a real hard think about the future and taking a long term view.