Cherokee or Warrior - 'Hersey Bar' or 'Tapered'

[tiggermoth]

If the 'slab wing' of the Cherokee sinks with the engine off, what is it like during an engine failure? Is the glide range much reduced and is it possible to carry out a forced landing with reasonable sucess?

[gcolyer]

Any aeroplane will sink with the engine off

Where has the quote button in PPRune gone???

[tiggermoth]

Dunno - it disappeared off the radar.. Is its ELT active so we can go find it?

You can quote manually by cutting and pasting and putting [ quote ] and [ /quote ] around it. I'd expect they are reducing the number of features on VBulletin to make things run a bit faster.

So going back to the quick sink rate - is it much to be concerened about iin an engine failure. How does it compare to a Warrior?

[wsmempson]

I fly a PA28 140 based at Booker - where I learnt to fly in a Warrior with the tapered wing. In the circuit with a warrior you would typically cut the throttle close to the start of base leg, whereas in the hearshey-bar-wing a/c you don't pull back on the power until the turn into finals.

It took quite a long time for the adjustment to sink in mentally. Otherwise, I love my a/c to death (hopefully figuratively speaking) and I think the handling is a bit sweeter/more sporting than the later a/c.

A bit more grunt would be nice and, come engine replacement time, I plan on exercising the standard upgrade (for which there is an a/d) of upgrading the motor to 161 spec. Seemes to entail higher compression pistons only....

[tiggermoth]

I've spotted another interesting difference between the early Cherokee and the Warrior - the Cherokee (at least the one we looked at) did not have toe brakes on the rudder pedals - just one handbrake (so no differential braking possible).

[cotterpot]

did not have toe brakes on the rudder pedals - just one handbrake

Correct. Slow with the handbrake and then use full rudder deflection and a burst of power to help it round - bit like a taildragger, but not so responsive.

I think there is a mod available - at a cost.

[tmmorris]

I've never found the glide performance to be a problem - and I've flown Warrior, Cherokee 180 and Archer.

What is a problem in the slab-winged ones is that full flap gives a massive amount of drag. Great for short runways - you can stop it in no time - but does require more power to 'drag' it in. Instructors quickly learn to watch for the student's use of power - you need to add power with full flap, or it sinks like a brick. (Thinks - is that what happened to G-AYEE on approach to Kidlington?). So an engine failure on short finals needs a quick response - stuff the nose down and take off the final stage of flap, or you won't make it...

But I agree with the posters above - the Warrior seems sloppy by comparison.

Tim

[gcolyer]

tmmorris

I noticed exactly the same in the archer I fly, it is even worse in the PA32.

But they are both great for short field.

[avidflyer]

"What is a problem in the slab-winged ones is that full flap gives a massive amount of drag. Great for short runways - you can stop it in no time - but does require more power to 'drag' it in. "

That's not a problem, it's a very useful feature! If you pull up on the bar from the 40 deg position you get even *more* drag, and as you're making a habit of glide approaches the potential engine failure become a non-event. Just by watching the speeds carefully some surprisingly short landing rolls can be achieved with the old girl

[tmmorris]

Oh, I agree it's not a problem - sorry, sloppy wording. It just catches people out if they are used to the Warrior (as I was, when I first flew the -180). I'm quite a fan, actually.

Tim