Overtaking
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: South Wales
If you look at a lot of things in the cockpit / air law it's mainly to the US standard. It's like the question of switches being up for 'on' or down for 'on' 
Not sure what your doing with overtaking on the left mind you?!? Unless there is a Worcestershire in the states?
Andy
Not sure what your doing with overtaking on the left mind you?!? Unless there is a Worcestershire in the states?
Andy
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: SE England
Sorry AlphaMale, but as far as I can see, Rule 37 part 4(c) says
"a flying machine which is being overtaken shall have the right-of-way, and the overtaking flying machine shall keep out of the way of the other flying machine by altering its course to the left until that other flying machine has been passed and is clear, notwithstanding any change in the relative positions of the two flying machines."
Which sounds to me like you should overtake on the left, so the original question stands. And in response to the question - I have no idea.
"a flying machine which is being overtaken shall have the right-of-way, and the overtaking flying machine shall keep out of the way of the other flying machine by altering its course to the left until that other flying machine has been passed and is clear, notwithstanding any change in the relative positions of the two flying machines."
Which sounds to me like you should overtake on the left, so the original question stands. And in response to the question - I have no idea.
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: UK
I understand that the Rules of the Air were derived mostly from international maritime law, where many of the issues had been resolved. In ships/boats, you keep right as you pass: "When two power-driven vessels are meeting on reciprocal or nearly reciprocal courses so as to involve risk of collision each shall alter her course to starboard so that each shall pass on the port side of the other". (Note - overtaking seems to be be different - it is simply necessary to keep clear, if there is room either way). Why UK chose left for roads is more the mystery - though as UK invented it for roads first, the rest of the world should have followed. Napoleon, however, decided differently for France, no doubt USA rebelled against the former colonial rulers in principle, and so it went on. I was told that the rule of the road (UK) was actually based on keeping the horseman's sword hand free to defend against somebody coming the other way, but that might be apocryphal.
Re roads and the sea - A. P Herbert, lawyer, author and playwright of humorous inclination, wrote a series of "misleading cases" pointing up anomalies in the law. His fictional character, Mr. Haddock, was accused of colliding in his boat with a car. His defence was that rowing up the River Thames, he kept right, as he should according to maritime law. The river had flooded over the road at Richmond (?). Along the road, travelling through the flood waters, was the injured party in his car, keeping, as he should on a road, to the left. Hence the collision.
So what does a hovercraft do when moving from water to land? Is it a ship, an aircraft or a land vehicle for legal purposes?
What should vehicles do airside at aerodromes, when meeting a taxying aircraft?
Chris N.
Re roads and the sea - A. P Herbert, lawyer, author and playwright of humorous inclination, wrote a series of "misleading cases" pointing up anomalies in the law. His fictional character, Mr. Haddock, was accused of colliding in his boat with a car. His defence was that rowing up the River Thames, he kept right, as he should according to maritime law. The river had flooded over the road at Richmond (?). Along the road, travelling through the flood waters, was the injured party in his car, keeping, as he should on a road, to the left. Hence the collision.
So what does a hovercraft do when moving from water to land? Is it a ship, an aircraft or a land vehicle for legal purposes?
What should vehicles do airside at aerodromes, when meeting a taxying aircraft?
Chris N.
Joined: May 2006
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From: 2 m South of Radstock VRP
Sorry AlphaMale, but as far as I can see, Rule 37 part 4(c) says
"a flying machine which is being overtaken shall have the right-of-way, and the overtaking flying machine shall keep out of the way of the other flying machine by altering its course to the left until that other flying machine has been passed and is clear, notwithstanding any change in the relative positions of the two flying machines."
Which sounds to me like you should overtake on the left, so the original question stands. And in response to the question - I have no idea.
"a flying machine which is being overtaken shall have the right-of-way, and the overtaking flying machine shall keep out of the way of the other flying machine by altering its course to the left until that other flying machine has been passed and is clear, notwithstanding any change in the relative positions of the two flying machines."
Which sounds to me like you should overtake on the left, so the original question stands. And in response to the question - I have no idea.
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: northumberland
The original post is correct; overtake on the right in the air, and left on the ground.
I believe it's so the pilot of the overtaken aircraft can see you more easily; as aircraft on the ground are likely to be in closer proximity than those in the air, so you don't appear out of the blue.
I believe it's so the pilot of the overtaken aircraft can see you more easily; as aircraft on the ground are likely to be in closer proximity than those in the air, so you don't appear out of the blue.
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: god knows
You alter course to the right so that the aircraft you are overtaking passes you on you left. As you will be sitting in the left hand seat you will have a full view of the aircraft and be able to make sure you give enough clearance to the aircraft you are overtaking. Simple!
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From: UK
SSD
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Aylesbury,Bucks
Interesting point - can a helicopter overtake on the right since it has to be in the air even if taxiing?? or do you overtake on the left when taxiing?
At what height are you considered to be in the air? (e..g AFIS gives advice for the air and instruction for the ground movements... I assume that applies to helicopters)
At what height are you considered to be in the air? (e..g AFIS gives advice for the air and instruction for the ground movements... I assume that applies to helicopters)
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From: 2 m South of Radstock VRP
Well, actually, you didn't read the Rules wrongly. Mr Thicky, here, read your Post wrongly. Please accept my unreserved apologies.
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From: Euroland
The reason for the overtaking rules being as they are is the interaction with the other rules for avoiding collisions.
For example if an aircraft follows a line feature by keeping to the right of it then it makes sense to require another aircraft overtaking to be further to the right of the line feature. If it was the other way round, the overtaking aircraft could be in a situation of not being able to overtake without moving to the incorrect side of the line feature.
Head to head - not nice to turn right to avoid colision only to find onself turning towards a faster moving aircraft also head-on. Also not nice to be overtaking and see an aircraft ahead but be unable to turn right for collision avoidance because the aircraft one is overtaking is in the way.
While overtaking an aircraft on it's (incorrect) left, one notices a third aircraft converging from the right. It is now impossible to alter course to the right because the aircraft being overtaken is in the way.
Overtake on the right in the air works best.
On the ground, aircraft are expected to keep to the right when taxying unless ground signals or markings indicate otherwise. The when taxying along a wide grass strip, one should taxy on the right. If one complies with this, then the only option available for an overtaking aircraft on the ground is to pass on the left.
Regards,
DFC
For example if an aircraft follows a line feature by keeping to the right of it then it makes sense to require another aircraft overtaking to be further to the right of the line feature. If it was the other way round, the overtaking aircraft could be in a situation of not being able to overtake without moving to the incorrect side of the line feature.
Head to head - not nice to turn right to avoid colision only to find onself turning towards a faster moving aircraft also head-on. Also not nice to be overtaking and see an aircraft ahead but be unable to turn right for collision avoidance because the aircraft one is overtaking is in the way.
While overtaking an aircraft on it's (incorrect) left, one notices a third aircraft converging from the right. It is now impossible to alter course to the right because the aircraft being overtaken is in the way.
Overtake on the right in the air works best.
On the ground, aircraft are expected to keep to the right when taxying unless ground signals or markings indicate otherwise. The when taxying along a wide grass strip, one should taxy on the right. If one complies with this, then the only option available for an overtaking aircraft on the ground is to pass on the left.
Regards,
DFC
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
On the ground, aircraft are expected to keep to the right when taxying unless ground signals or markings indicate otherwise. The when taxying along a wide grass strip, one should taxy on the right. If one complies with this, then the only option available for an overtaking aircraft on the ground is to pass on the left
Do you have an ICAO reference for this, DFC?
I have a suspicion this is UK CAA only.
Do you have an ICAO reference for this, DFC?
I have a suspicion this is UK CAA only.
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From: By the A&P
i misunderstood the original post. i thought he meant overtaking on the left in autos on the ground (which would be weird, as you guys drive on the left). i'm not sure in what situation one would overtake another moving aircraft on the ground?
Our FARs state that "Overtaking. Each aircraft that is being overtaken has the right-of-way and each pilot of an overtaking aircraft shall alter course to the right to pass well clear."
maybe you guys took it from us?
they don't specify for ground operations. they only give guidelines for water ops which require that "Each aircraft or vessel that is being overtaken has the right-of-way, and the one overtaking shall alter course to keep well clear"
Our FARs state that "Overtaking. Each aircraft that is being overtaken has the right-of-way and each pilot of an overtaking aircraft shall alter course to the right to pass well clear."
maybe you guys took it from us?
they don't specify for ground operations. they only give guidelines for water ops which require that "Each aircraft or vessel that is being overtaken has the right-of-way, and the one overtaking shall alter course to keep well clear"
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
Our FARs state that "Overtaking. Each aircraft that is being overtaken has the right-of-way and each pilot of an overtaking aircraft shall alter course to the right to pass well clear."
That's right, that is the FAA position and applies to both ground and air, according to my FAA CPL instructor.
Here in the UK, you are supposed to overtake on the right in the air but on the left on the ground. This is weird, because (one would assume) the reason for overtaking on the right is to enable the pilot of the overtaking aircraft to retain a good view of the one being overtaken, and he can't do that (in a conventional LH/RH seat configuration aircraft) if overtaking on the left.
As to why anybody would overtake on the ground at all, that's another story. I have seen it when taxiing at certain uncontrolled airfields, when I was taxiing carefully to avoid prop damage, and somebody else (presumably, driving a rented plane while being charged for brakes-off to brakes-on as is the UK norm) was in a rush and went past me. However, I have had people go past me on both sides, in that situation
That's right, that is the FAA position and applies to both ground and air, according to my FAA CPL instructor.
Here in the UK, you are supposed to overtake on the right in the air but on the left on the ground. This is weird, because (one would assume) the reason for overtaking on the right is to enable the pilot of the overtaking aircraft to retain a good view of the one being overtaken, and he can't do that (in a conventional LH/RH seat configuration aircraft) if overtaking on the left.
As to why anybody would overtake on the ground at all, that's another story. I have seen it when taxiing at certain uncontrolled airfields, when I was taxiing carefully to avoid prop damage, and somebody else (presumably, driving a rented plane while being charged for brakes-off to brakes-on as is the UK norm) was in a rush and went past me. However, I have had people go past me on both sides, in that situation