PPL accident stats
I agree with your sentiment. I think this is too often forgotten in today's world of risk aversion. It's not about eliminating risk, but managing it to an acceptable level.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Out There
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If You stay away from:-
Bad weather, Overcrowded airspace, Water and Get-Home-Itis
and
Have regular check flights rather than trying to do minimum hours
Then renting a typcal light single from a club with a good reputation is about as good as it gets.
And don't forget that you will have a motive to stay fit to pass that medical which in turn might pick up the heart condition or high blood pressure which would have got you anyway. Who knows you could even be better off !.
DS
Bad weather, Overcrowded airspace, Water and Get-Home-Itis
and
Have regular check flights rather than trying to do minimum hours
Then renting a typcal light single from a club with a good reputation is about as good as it gets.
And don't forget that you will have a motive to stay fit to pass that medical which in turn might pick up the heart condition or high blood pressure which would have got you anyway. Who knows you could even be better off !.
DS
There is also a quote above from Genghis the Engineer which says that the average private pilot flies about 15 hours per year, which I find surprising - 15 is not enough to feel competent and current. We fly so little that in fact flying 30 hours a year would make you LESS likely to have an accident, not twice as much, whereas I would suggest that doing 20,000 miles on a motorbike rather than 10,000 would expose you to twice the risk.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bad weather,
This means: get more training on weather appreciation. The PPL training establishment doesn't deal with this bit too well.
Overcrowded airspace,
Not sure what this means. The mid-air stats are negligible, especially away from circuits at uncontrolled airports
Water and
Ditching incident stats are distorted because few carry rafts, and a lot don't have transponders, and most don't carry locator beacons.
Get-Home-Itis
No such thing. Everything we do, from the moment we wake up, is done because we feel pressured to do so. If you didn't feel under pressure to have a wee, you would not go to the loo. This is just a stupid "CAA safety presentation" expression which might be there to excuse poor training and poor currency. A pilot should be taught to make a competent decision on the technical data before him: weather, aircraft performance, etc. Like going for a wee, every flight is done under pressure - especially if there are passengers present.
This means: get more training on weather appreciation. The PPL training establishment doesn't deal with this bit too well.
Overcrowded airspace,
Not sure what this means. The mid-air stats are negligible, especially away from circuits at uncontrolled airports
Water and
Ditching incident stats are distorted because few carry rafts, and a lot don't have transponders, and most don't carry locator beacons.
Get-Home-Itis
No such thing. Everything we do, from the moment we wake up, is done because we feel pressured to do so. If you didn't feel under pressure to have a wee, you would not go to the loo. This is just a stupid "CAA safety presentation" expression which might be there to excuse poor training and poor currency. A pilot should be taught to make a competent decision on the technical data before him: weather, aircraft performance, etc. Like going for a wee, every flight is done under pressure - especially if there are passengers present.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by IO540
Get-Home-Itis
No such thing. Everything we do, from the moment we wake up, is done because we feel pressured to do so. If you didn't feel under pressure to have a wee, you would not go to the loo. This is just a stupid "CAA safety presentation" expression which might be there to excuse poor training and poor currency. A pilot should be taught to make a competent decision on the technical data before him: weather, aircraft performance, etc. Like going for a wee, every flight is done under pressure - especially if there are passengers present.
No such thing. Everything we do, from the moment we wake up, is done because we feel pressured to do so. If you didn't feel under pressure to have a wee, you would not go to the loo. This is just a stupid "CAA safety presentation" expression which might be there to excuse poor training and poor currency. A pilot should be taught to make a competent decision on the technical data before him: weather, aircraft performance, etc. Like going for a wee, every flight is done under pressure - especially if there are passengers present.
Think continuing to Elstree instead of diverting into Luton for a good example.
The desire to have your aircraft back where your car is parked is a strong one and you need to consciously decide to avoid it: Needing to take a piss isn't a conscious decision, where you decide to do it is.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Surrey
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by IO540;2970930[I
Get-Home-Itis[/I]
No such thing. Everything we do, ...
No such thing. Everything we do, ...
I seem to remember to the shrinks these are two different issues but are generally lumped together as get-home-itis. My memory is these are US and Australian studies and the decisions were generally weather related.
Red On, Green On
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the woods and the water
Age: 24
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Some top line stats on fatalities, however caused, here:
http://www.rospa.com/factsheets/accidents_overview.pdf
My guess is that water is the major killer in the leisure sector with over 400 drownings reported in one year. Perhaps not fair to compare motorbikes with leisure GA, unless the stats for bikes only include leisure use.
http://www.rospa.com/factsheets/accidents_overview.pdf
My guess is that water is the major killer in the leisure sector with over 400 drownings reported in one year. Perhaps not fair to compare motorbikes with leisure GA, unless the stats for bikes only include leisure use.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK, I am being overly pedantic but as you all know I like doing that, because I don't like the use of sloppy language and sloppy terminology used to cover up what IMHO starts with poor and outdated training of pilots and then continues through poor currency of those who do hang in there.
We all have a tendency, no matter how small, to chance flying in weather conditions to get home that we may decline if we were departing from our home base. It's real alright!
This is very true, but one has basically two choices:
(1) Ban all flights returning to one's base, unless the weather is CAVOK, or
(2) Try to analyse how decision making is affected by various psychological factors, and address that with appropriate training. One may find that the airlines got there first, however
Today, I had to get back home (as is usually the case on a Friday) so I did a flight in what most would call atrocious weather, and it was timed to use a gap between a trough and a cold front. The forecast for the destination was a possible 25kt crosswind component, right on the limit. I had 5hrs' fuel reserve, enough to get to Biarritz with FAA legal IFR reserves. The flight, 55kt headwind, and the landing (36kt more or less down the runway, windshear only about 10kt when I was expecting 20+) were in the end a complete non-event, with the benefit of the summer's bugs having got washed off. The place was like a graveyard, nobody was flying. I don't see anything wrong with their decisions, or with mine, but the point is that I looked at the data (including weather radar images) and made a decision to go based on the data, and (crucially) had an escape route in having enough reserve to go somewhere completely different. I think that training pilots to work it out like this is better than patronisingly telling them that it is better to be down here wishing they were up there than the other way round, etc, etc, etc.
We all have a tendency, no matter how small, to chance flying in weather conditions to get home that we may decline if we were departing from our home base. It's real alright!
This is very true, but one has basically two choices:
(1) Ban all flights returning to one's base, unless the weather is CAVOK, or
(2) Try to analyse how decision making is affected by various psychological factors, and address that with appropriate training. One may find that the airlines got there first, however
Today, I had to get back home (as is usually the case on a Friday) so I did a flight in what most would call atrocious weather, and it was timed to use a gap between a trough and a cold front. The forecast for the destination was a possible 25kt crosswind component, right on the limit. I had 5hrs' fuel reserve, enough to get to Biarritz with FAA legal IFR reserves. The flight, 55kt headwind, and the landing (36kt more or less down the runway, windshear only about 10kt when I was expecting 20+) were in the end a complete non-event, with the benefit of the summer's bugs having got washed off. The place was like a graveyard, nobody was flying. I don't see anything wrong with their decisions, or with mine, but the point is that I looked at the data (including weather radar images) and made a decision to go based on the data, and (crucially) had an escape route in having enough reserve to go somewhere completely different. I think that training pilots to work it out like this is better than patronisingly telling them that it is better to be down here wishing they were up there than the other way round, etc, etc, etc.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kent UK
Age: 70
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for your replies, one and all!! 
By all means do carry on the discussion but I shall make a distillation of all of the above and let you all know how I get on! (I may leave out the motor cycling bit.......)
Kev.
By all means do carry on the discussion but I shall make a distillation of all of the above and let you all know how I get on! (I may leave out the motor cycling bit.......)Kev.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Horse-Riding more dangerous?
I read ages ago that Horse-Riding is the most dangerous leisure activity in the UK. I couldn't find the stats to quote, but according to the British Horse Society website there is a riding accident for every hour of daylight throughout the year in the uk! I'd rather be in the PA28 with the single donkey in front.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another way to look at it. If you think you're taking a bit of a chance, you probably are.
"I'll just press on for another couple of minutes"
"It's only a small cloud"
"I'll nip through that gap"
"I've got enough fuel to push through this headwind".
A lot of people have stopped growing old that way.
"I'll just press on for another couple of minutes"
"It's only a small cloud"
"I'll nip through that gap"
"I've got enough fuel to push through this headwind".
A lot of people have stopped growing old that way.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I'll just press on for another couple of minutes"
"It's only a small cloud"
"I'll nip through that gap"
"I've got enough fuel to push through this headwind".
[A lot of people have stopped growing old that way.]
Funny that, I do all of the above, routinely. I should be long dead, evidently.
That's right, that's how PPL training works in the UK. Train pilots to know close to s0d-all about flight planning, close to s0d-all about instrument flight and radio navigation, take £8000 off them for the job "done", and then give them a handout with all these wonderful ex-WW1 aviation sayings. Might as well give them a leather cap and goggles but that would cost far too much.
"It's only a small cloud"
"I'll nip through that gap"
"I've got enough fuel to push through this headwind".
[A lot of people have stopped growing old that way.]
Funny that, I do all of the above, routinely. I should be long dead, evidently.
That's right, that's how PPL training works in the UK. Train pilots to know close to s0d-all about flight planning, close to s0d-all about instrument flight and radio navigation, take £8000 off them for the job "done", and then give them a handout with all these wonderful ex-WW1 aviation sayings. Might as well give them a leather cap and goggles but that would cost far too much.
