Blackpool Security - Idiot Warning
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Blackpool Security - Idiot Warning
Team,
Just got back from a wonderful 2 weeks flying in Scotland. Absolutely awesome.... However....
On the way back to the South, decided to pop in and see my sister who lives near blackpool. So, landed there as normal with plane full of camping gear, personal effects etc. Unloaded, walked past the fuel farm, a couple of expensive biz jets etc to the fire station (who control the non-normal pax exit).
Just before going through the final gate, I asked about getting airside again. The reply was through "Central Security" - alarm bells starting ringing, so I asked if we had to be x-rayed like everyone else. The answer to this was Yes. I was also told that the same rules applied to us as it did normal pax. Uh oh...
Had a massive argument with their main security guy in the terminal and made the following points:
So, chaps a warning not to fly to Blackpool if you want to get anything to your plane...... What a bunch of plonkers.
So much for being a GA freindly airfield....
Just got back from a wonderful 2 weeks flying in Scotland. Absolutely awesome.... However....
On the way back to the South, decided to pop in and see my sister who lives near blackpool. So, landed there as normal with plane full of camping gear, personal effects etc. Unloaded, walked past the fuel farm, a couple of expensive biz jets etc to the fire station (who control the non-normal pax exit).
Just before going through the final gate, I asked about getting airside again. The reply was through "Central Security" - alarm bells starting ringing, so I asked if we had to be x-rayed like everyone else. The answer to this was Yes. I was also told that the same rules applied to us as it did normal pax. Uh oh...
Had a massive argument with their main security guy in the terminal and made the following points:
- My plane, I'm PIC, it's totally my responsibility for safety of the aircraft and pax, not his
- That I don't have a hold nor a handling agent so can't "check in" baggage
- That I needed to bring some spare oil in for the plane
- That the rules do not affect private planes on private flights
So, chaps a warning not to fly to Blackpool if you want to get anything to your plane...... What a bunch of plonkers.
So much for being a GA freindly airfield....
Last edited by Pudnucker; 1st Sep 2006 at 10:36.
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Sympathise with you. It certainly has changed with the times since I passed through on my QXC.
You might consider editing your post to remove reference to how you got your gear in..... Don't really see the detail helping anyone.
The Wombat
You might consider editing your post to remove reference to how you got your gear in..... Don't really see the detail helping anyone.
The Wombat
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Had a similar experience at Exeter. Walked out, found the very helpful chap who took my landing fee and confirmed he had my FPL. I then asked him how I would get back to airside. He gave me a chit to fill in, another laminated card and told me to show my pilot's license (you know, the pooh brown thing that is in my nav bag in the back of the aircraft) to the fascist on the gate.
Long story short, some haggling, a flash of an RAF ID card and a confirmatory discussion with an RAF Typhoon pilot (who just happened to be loitering with intent) and I made it back to my aircraft.
Of course, from now on I will carry my license with me at all times - it is a very difficult document to replicate!!
Long story short, some haggling, a flash of an RAF ID card and a confirmatory discussion with an RAF Typhoon pilot (who just happened to be loitering with intent) and I made it back to my aircraft.
Of course, from now on I will carry my license with me at all times - it is a very difficult document to replicate!!
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Pudnecker,
First of all, let me say that I totally sympathise with your situation. I totally agree with you that these rules are stupid.
I too had to go through security at Blackpool with my flight bag. They simply looked inside and decided it looked like normal pilot gear and let me go through. I was of course worried that they might have been more aggressive and decided my fuel strainer (with a screwdriver end) was a lethal weapon etc. Someday someone probably will decide that.
Blackpool insist on these security rules because they have passenger jets passing through. The are presumably scared of someone being allowed airside with something because they are on a private flight, and then passing it to someone boarding a commercial flight. This could be a terrorist, or simply a reporter looking for the latest sensationalist news story.
You will obviously say that of course someone could have landed, handed the banned item to someone boarding the commercial flight, without ever going landside. However Blackpool management would probably say that if the object came in from the air, there was nothing that they could do about it, but if it came through security, then they would be hung out to dry in public.
But your reaction helps no one. You might have felt that you got to vent your anger, but you may have made a bad thing worse.
You could have explained your problem, and asked security how best to handle it, and I'm sure they would have come up with some suggestion. (Always best to ask the person creating the problem for a suggestion in how to solve it....they can't disagree with their own suggestion, and failure to supply a suggestion makes them sound as if they are lacking in intelligence.)
But instead you kicked up a rumpus saying that you're the captain and you're entitled to carry what you deem safe.
Suppose that goes up the line, and management think....I feed up with these guys complaining. I suppose they have some point....they are entitled to decide what they carry, but how can we be sure that we won't get caught out in a security lapse because they hand something to someone boarding a commercial flight? I don't want my ass in the paper over that. How have other airports handled it? I know! Make them use a handling agent who will transfer them by minibus between the terminal and their aircraft. No possibility for them to transfer anything. No cost to us, as the pilots will pay the cost. We even get some rent from the handling agent, and don't have to bother about admin for their landing fees, because the handling agent will look after that. Wow, this is a great idea, I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier!
I'm not saying that's going to happen, but if enough people cause a stink, then it may very well be a possible solution. Maybe next time try to find a better solution? Did you really need to bring stuff landside, only to bring it back airside again?
Like I said, I sympathise with your situation, and understand where you are coming from. But there may have been a better way of handling the situation. Something to think about at least.
dp
First of all, let me say that I totally sympathise with your situation. I totally agree with you that these rules are stupid.
I too had to go through security at Blackpool with my flight bag. They simply looked inside and decided it looked like normal pilot gear and let me go through. I was of course worried that they might have been more aggressive and decided my fuel strainer (with a screwdriver end) was a lethal weapon etc. Someday someone probably will decide that.
Blackpool insist on these security rules because they have passenger jets passing through. The are presumably scared of someone being allowed airside with something because they are on a private flight, and then passing it to someone boarding a commercial flight. This could be a terrorist, or simply a reporter looking for the latest sensationalist news story.
You will obviously say that of course someone could have landed, handed the banned item to someone boarding the commercial flight, without ever going landside. However Blackpool management would probably say that if the object came in from the air, there was nothing that they could do about it, but if it came through security, then they would be hung out to dry in public.
But your reaction helps no one. You might have felt that you got to vent your anger, but you may have made a bad thing worse.
You could have explained your problem, and asked security how best to handle it, and I'm sure they would have come up with some suggestion. (Always best to ask the person creating the problem for a suggestion in how to solve it....they can't disagree with their own suggestion, and failure to supply a suggestion makes them sound as if they are lacking in intelligence.)
But instead you kicked up a rumpus saying that you're the captain and you're entitled to carry what you deem safe.
Suppose that goes up the line, and management think....I feed up with these guys complaining. I suppose they have some point....they are entitled to decide what they carry, but how can we be sure that we won't get caught out in a security lapse because they hand something to someone boarding a commercial flight? I don't want my ass in the paper over that. How have other airports handled it? I know! Make them use a handling agent who will transfer them by minibus between the terminal and their aircraft. No possibility for them to transfer anything. No cost to us, as the pilots will pay the cost. We even get some rent from the handling agent, and don't have to bother about admin for their landing fees, because the handling agent will look after that. Wow, this is a great idea, I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier!
I'm not saying that's going to happen, but if enough people cause a stink, then it may very well be a possible solution. Maybe next time try to find a better solution? Did you really need to bring stuff landside, only to bring it back airside again?
Like I said, I sympathise with your situation, and understand where you are coming from. But there may have been a better way of handling the situation. Something to think about at least.
dp
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I'd like to think that the GA community is full of law abiding citizens who would never consider doing anything to jeopardise others, but with the way the world is these days I guess you've got to expect it. What's to stop Mr Terrorist landing his light aircraft at an airport, then meeting his mate in the car park who gives him a ruck sack which he then takes airside? I've been to a few regional airports where you have to walk some distance from the GA park to the terminal, passing several passenger carrying aircraft on the way.
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I got caught at Blackpool too! Was on a X country with a female colleague. We landed at Blackpool walked through the gate out to the terminal had a cup of tea then paid the landing fee (what a rip off) then got directed to the departure gate to get back airside! Oh Oh! alarm bells wrang I had my usual pocket full of spare odds and sods including my small Swiss army knife, which I purchased in the duty free at Geneva airport, when I saw the metal detector and Xray machine my heart sank. Sure enough a jobsworth tried to confiscate it and when I started to argue he was about to call security, fearing an arrest and all the ensuing hassle I gave in and reasoned with him which resulted in a lecture and being told to leave it in the aircraft. Story over! Wrong! We then flew to Teeside went through the gate guess what! repeat the last part of the story! Oh I do hate Jobsworths!!!
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This is nothing new and has been an 'issue' for since Sept 2001.
So not quite sure who the 'idiot' is here.
If I had a family to feed from money earned in a job where there were some very clear rules that I had to abide by, I am not sure if I was willing to 'risk' that for the convenience of a 'hurrah henry'
Take it you have done something constructive about this saga by complaining about the rules at Blackpool to the people that made them?
So not quite sure who the 'idiot' is here.
If I had a family to feed from money earned in a job where there were some very clear rules that I had to abide by, I am not sure if I was willing to 'risk' that for the convenience of a 'hurrah henry'
Take it you have done something constructive about this saga by complaining about the rules at Blackpool to the people that made them?
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Can we not opt to get security vetted and get some sort of ID card (hey, maybe this is Tony's plan, sneak in ID cards by the back door
). I occasionally fly with a BA captain who just flashes his LHR card around and it seems to prevent most problems.....
). I occasionally fly with a BA captain who just flashes his LHR card around and it seems to prevent most problems.....
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I had similar problems with Blackpool, but I didn't have anything with me that I shouldn't have had. They even x rayed my sticks of rock. They also tried to charge me handling charges for my passengers on top of the landing fee. Strangly enough I could have planted anything I might have had on board from the walk in from the Fylde aircraft park to the fire station. As I had no ID in the form they wanted, (I don't carry my licence on a domestic flight) we were escorted back to the Fylde Park, where the jobsworth took some details from my driving licence which was in the aircraft. We must have looked dodgy characters, 2 women and a 12 year old. I solved the problem by never going back. 
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The issue here is not the security guard being an idiot, but the fact most GA pilots think the rules don't apply to them.
If you are going airside, then you aren't allowed to carry anything. That doesn't change whether you are airline pax or GA pilot.
You could easily carry something naughty airside and leave it for someone else, or plant a device etc.etc.etc.
Is it daft? Yes, but it isn't the guards fault. They aren't allowed to bend the rules. Whilst it has casued me no end of problems in the past, it's no good being a belligerent a*se about it since they have no power to do anything else.
The system has holes in it the size of the Mont Blanc tunnel, but it's no good getting all stressed with the guards. They neither understand or care about GA.
If you are going airside, then you aren't allowed to carry anything. That doesn't change whether you are airline pax or GA pilot.
You could easily carry something naughty airside and leave it for someone else, or plant a device etc.etc.etc.
Is it daft? Yes, but it isn't the guards fault. They aren't allowed to bend the rules. Whilst it has casued me no end of problems in the past, it's no good being a belligerent a*se about it since they have no power to do anything else.
The system has holes in it the size of the Mont Blanc tunnel, but it's no good getting all stressed with the guards. They neither understand or care about GA.
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Interesting replies.... so all those who think I was being belligerent, I did make representations to the Chief Security Officer and Airport Management. Brick Wall.
I say again, the authorities are all too willing to distinguish between GA and airlines but when it suits them lump us all back in as one. Funny that it doesn't work the other way round. Hey, why not impose these security systems at ALL airfields and really screw up the entire GA industry. This is simply a case of a kneejerk reaction and people who don't understand the whole flying thing trying to justify their jobs. I do agree that COMMERCIAL flying needs proper security but GA - come on!
Interesting that at Bournemouth, you don't have to go through central security...
I say again, the authorities are all too willing to distinguish between GA and airlines but when it suits them lump us all back in as one. Funny that it doesn't work the other way round. Hey, why not impose these security systems at ALL airfields and really screw up the entire GA industry. This is simply a case of a kneejerk reaction and people who don't understand the whole flying thing trying to justify their jobs. I do agree that COMMERCIAL flying needs proper security but GA - come on!
Interesting that at Bournemouth, you don't have to go through central security...
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Had a massive argument with their main security guy in the terminal
I did make representations to the Chief Security Officer and Airport Management. Brick Wall.
I do agree that COMMERCIAL flying needs proper security but GA - come on!
But try to step back a little and look at it from their point of view. They only want the security for CAT. By letting you walk through with something that you could pass to, or leave at a prearranged place, for someone on a CAT they leave a hole in their security. I am sure that they would look on your example of Bournemouth as being a gaping hole in Bournemouths security. If you can solve that security problem for the management/security in such a way that will not affect you, and will not involve extra costs on the airport, and can present it in a friendly fashion, they you may achieve something.
Massive arguments rarely achieve anything other than division.
dp
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last time i was at westair blackpool, my family came along to watch me fly. they were left alone many times during the hour, at the hangar doors. and the hangar was empty of personnel most of the time.
as you say, the whole security system is just full of massive holes.
as you say, the whole security system is just full of massive holes.
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Interesting replies.... so all those who think I was being belligerent, I did make representations to the Chief Security Officer and Airport Management. Brick Wall.
I say again, the authorities are all too willing to distinguish between GA and airlines but when it suits them lump us all back in as one. Funny that it doesn't work the other way round. Hey, why not impose these security systems at ALL airfields and really screw up the entire GA industry. This is simply a case of a kneejerk reaction and people who don't understand the whole flying thing trying to justify their jobs. I do agree that COMMERCIAL flying needs proper security but GA - come on!
Interesting that at Bournemouth, you don't have to go through central security...
I say again, the authorities are all too willing to distinguish between GA and airlines but when it suits them lump us all back in as one. Funny that it doesn't work the other way round. Hey, why not impose these security systems at ALL airfields and really screw up the entire GA industry. This is simply a case of a kneejerk reaction and people who don't understand the whole flying thing trying to justify their jobs. I do agree that COMMERCIAL flying needs proper security but GA - come on!
Interesting that at Bournemouth, you don't have to go through central security...
Finally, I am reading a flow of reports at the moment from both pilots (commercial) and air side staff who are severly restricted on what they can now take through.
It aint just GA.
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Interesting point - can't check baggage into the hold. What if you go to one of these airports for an overnight stay. How do you get your night bag back through security - or are we all now restricted to the ridiculously small hand luggage allowance?
HH
HH
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Hand luggage allowance would be a matter for each additional airline, not security. Security will not refuse to let you through because you have 15kg of luggage instead of 10kg, nor because it's in two bags not one.
They may refuse to let you through with your knife that you used to catch dinner, the same as they'd refuse to let anyone else through with it.
If you want to go down the route of a handling agent, I'm sure Blackpool would not have a problem with it. Your fellow pilots might not be very happy with you though.
They may refuse to let you through with your knife that you used to catch dinner, the same as they'd refuse to let anyone else through with it.
If you want to go down the route of a handling agent, I'm sure Blackpool would not have a problem with it. Your fellow pilots might not be very happy with you though.
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Personally I think that the whole security issue has taken on the same completely OTT and lacking in common sense route as the H&SE.
There are gaping holes in security everywhere but as long as the public face of security is strong armed well then, on the face of it, everything must be ok.
Access on to the apron from the pumps at Blackpool is easy - access to a light aircraft via a flying school at Blackpool is easy but the completely unbalanced security issues raised by the thread originator are simply illogical and no more than a joke even if viewed with token logic.
The problem is of, course, who in public life will stand up and condemn security measures? Just like who will stand up and condemn hi vis vests? OK radically different situations but both involve the peceived safety of human life and it is very difficult to argue against the system which exists to preserve and protect human life.
Aircraft can be taken out with SAM's and individual aircraft can be identified with simple Air band receivers. Very soon all commercial air traffic will be able to be seen and identified on a home PC via the Kinetic SBS receiver. You plug the aerial into your PC or lap top and hey presto Blair Force 1, purple traffic, and all manner of aircraft accurately identified in a real time radar presentation on your own PC c/o Mode S. Of course the general public don't know about these risks and therefore don't worry about them.
There are gaping holes in security everywhere but as long as the public face of security is strong armed well then, on the face of it, everything must be ok.
Access on to the apron from the pumps at Blackpool is easy - access to a light aircraft via a flying school at Blackpool is easy but the completely unbalanced security issues raised by the thread originator are simply illogical and no more than a joke even if viewed with token logic.
The problem is of, course, who in public life will stand up and condemn security measures? Just like who will stand up and condemn hi vis vests? OK radically different situations but both involve the peceived safety of human life and it is very difficult to argue against the system which exists to preserve and protect human life.
Aircraft can be taken out with SAM's and individual aircraft can be identified with simple Air band receivers. Very soon all commercial air traffic will be able to be seen and identified on a home PC via the Kinetic SBS receiver. You plug the aerial into your PC or lap top and hey presto Blair Force 1, purple traffic, and all manner of aircraft accurately identified in a real time radar presentation on your own PC c/o Mode S. Of course the general public don't know about these risks and therefore don't worry about them.
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What was it exactly that you tried to bring airside and onto an aircraft which caused the security personnel to object?
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How is it the fault of security at Teeside that you were not able to learn a lesson and follow the advice of the security personnel at Blackpool. i.e. leave it on the aircraft.
Regards,
DFC
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Originally Posted by S205-18F
which resulted in a lecture and being told to leave it in the aircraft. Story over! Wrong! We then flew to Teeside went through the gate guess what! repeat the last part of the story! Oh I do hate Jobsworths!!!
Regards,
DFC