IOM register
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From: Yorkshire
IOM register
There's a report in Flyer this month that the IOM is to have its own aircraft register, with the "M" prefix.
Do we think this will just produce "CAA's little brother" or is it likely to be of any real benefit to existing UK aircraft owners who might consider a change of reg ?
Anyone got the inside scoop ?
FF
Do we think this will just produce "CAA's little brother" or is it likely to be of any real benefit to existing UK aircraft owners who might consider a change of reg ?
Anyone got the inside scoop ?
FF
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From: Deepest Warwickshire
Explains a bit:
http://www.gov.im/lib/news/dti/firstisleofmandi.xml
http://www.gov.im/lib/news/dti/firstisleofmandi.xml
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From: EuroGA.org
The crucial factor is where they are going to set their lowest aircraft weight limit for acceptance, and whether they will accept FAA licenses+ratings and certification.
Above a few tons, you have a choice of a number of registries, all of which accept FAA.
Interesting developments....
What I find absolutely hilarious is that the IOM recruited a former CAA man
I hope he isn't a plant...
Above a few tons, you have a choice of a number of registries, all of which accept FAA.
Interesting developments....
What I find absolutely hilarious is that the IOM recruited a former CAA man
I hope he isn't a plant...
Joined: May 2001
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From: up North
Expect it to be similar to the Bermudan and Cayman registers and not aimed at the likes of you and me.
Someone here may explain the trend but I note Russian and Alitalia aircraft on the Irish register, other Russian airlines flying Bermudan registered aircraft and even Icelandic aircraft on the Swiss register.
Over in the IoM the impossibility of getting an AOC (it's outside CAA jurisdiction) seems to have resulted in Austrian and German aircraft being used by EuroManx and a Hungarian LET410 aircraft by the new Manx2.
Will the new IoM Director of Civil Aviation just have a register to look after or will they be considering the bigger picture?
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From: EuroGA.org
Will the new IoM Director of Civil Aviation just have a register to look after or will they be considering the bigger picture?
What would be the bigger picture?
I think people go "Irish" because of reduced corp tax (no doubt somebody will correct me here
).
As for the Russians, all kinds of reasons. Wealthy private owners sometimes do this for privacy - you don't want every tom disk and harry back home knowing you own a particular piece of metal.
Safety (lack of) may appear to be an issue superficially but in fact under ICAO any State can inspect/ban any plane if it is poorly maintained.
An AOC (any AOC) is worth having for tax free fuel; no need to actually fly the proposed operation. You can get tax free avgas in most of Europe with an AOC, and I gather (this is secondhand) that in some places you need an AOC to get tax free avtur too.
Of course, for non-AOC owners, the key feature of a register is FAA acceptance, and if the register is in the EU then any DfT or EASA proposal to prevent foreign reg planes parking in Europe would fail. A great deal of money is to be made in this area alone.
What would be the bigger picture?
I think people go "Irish" because of reduced corp tax (no doubt somebody will correct me here
).As for the Russians, all kinds of reasons. Wealthy private owners sometimes do this for privacy - you don't want every tom disk and harry back home knowing you own a particular piece of metal.
Safety (lack of) may appear to be an issue superficially but in fact under ICAO any State can inspect/ban any plane if it is poorly maintained.
An AOC (any AOC) is worth having for tax free fuel; no need to actually fly the proposed operation. You can get tax free avgas in most of Europe with an AOC, and I gather (this is secondhand) that in some places you need an AOC to get tax free avtur too.
Of course, for non-AOC owners, the key feature of a register is FAA acceptance, and if the register is in the EU then any DfT or EASA proposal to prevent foreign reg planes parking in Europe would fail. A great deal of money is to be made in this area alone.
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From: up North
What would be the bigger picture?
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From: EuroGA.org
The CAA pulled the plug on AOC's for IoM based operations several years back
Can you give the detail behind this? What were the reasons and what exactly was "pulled"?
The FCL and certification side is easy enough: you accept the FAA requirements; after all they work for some 90% of the known universe.
Of course you accept the JAA stuff too.
It's also possible that the IOM register will be useful to IOM residents only, through taxation advantages. This would not suprise me; the various islands already have a much simplified personal and corporate taxation system already and don't have the UK-mainland Gestapo-style Inland Revenue which tries to collect money every which way it can under 50 different headings.
In any event, I am quite sure that nobody close to the IOM setup is going to be posting any details here. This stuff is highly political.
Personally, I would be happy if some "proper country" like Poland did this (accepted FAA FCL, FAA cert, had no foreign ownership or parking restrictions). They are or will be a full JAA member state and an ICAO signatory. They would make many millions. The Greeks already do this for Greek nationals (accept FAA IR for worldwide IFR privileges in an SX-reg plane) so this would be only a small step.
Can you give the detail behind this? What were the reasons and what exactly was "pulled"?
The FCL and certification side is easy enough: you accept the FAA requirements; after all they work for some 90% of the known universe.
Of course you accept the JAA stuff too.
It's also possible that the IOM register will be useful to IOM residents only, through taxation advantages. This would not suprise me; the various islands already have a much simplified personal and corporate taxation system already and don't have the UK-mainland Gestapo-style Inland Revenue which tries to collect money every which way it can under 50 different headings.
In any event, I am quite sure that nobody close to the IOM setup is going to be posting any details here. This stuff is highly political.
Personally, I would be happy if some "proper country" like Poland did this (accepted FAA FCL, FAA cert, had no foreign ownership or parking restrictions). They are or will be a full JAA member state and an ICAO signatory. They would make many millions. The Greeks already do this for Greek nationals (accept FAA IR for worldwide IFR privileges in an SX-reg plane) so this would be only a small step.
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From: up North
Can you give the detail behind this? What were the reasons and what exactly was "pulled"?
Since that time I'm sure that no other IoM based operator has had a CAA issued AOC. That is why I was wondering if the new Manx setup was going to evolve further than just having an aircraft register.
Things may have changed and I'll happily admit my info is out of date if someone can supply an update. I left the IoM scene quite a while back.
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From: EuroGA.org
If having a CAA AOC and being physically based on the IOM places the operation outside CAA remit, then IMHO clearly the IOM is free to issue its own AOCs.
I wonder why the CAA granted them in the first place. Was it because the said airlines moved to the IOM after getting the AOCs?
I wonder why the CAA granted them in the first place. Was it because the said airlines moved to the IOM after getting the AOCs?
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From: up North
I can't answer that question accurately but I would say not. Again this is just my hypothesis but I think the AOC's had been in place for some time and then a penny dropped somewhere in CAA HQ.
Some historians may be able to fill in some data here but I don't believe there have been many IoM based AOC operations at all. There was the original Manx Airlines of 1950's vintage and probably nothing then until Manx was reborn from the BMA/BUIA(?) venture in the 1980's. Several air charter companies have come and gone in the same period - I vaguely remember 1970's operators like Air Charter and Travel, City Air Links and IoM Flying Centre - but two had roots elsewhere and may well have been UK registered companies.
Just digging around the Net I see that Ravenair and Woodgate have aircraft based at Ronaldsway these days but both are UK operators. I've no idea where EuroManx have their AOC - possibly Austria as they use two Austrian registered Dash 8's.
I hope someone with more current knowledge may step in here as my association with Manx happenings ended some time ago. I am reasonably sure though that since revoking the Manx/IAT AOC's that none have subsequently been issued.
Some historians may be able to fill in some data here but I don't believe there have been many IoM based AOC operations at all. There was the original Manx Airlines of 1950's vintage and probably nothing then until Manx was reborn from the BMA/BUIA(?) venture in the 1980's. Several air charter companies have come and gone in the same period - I vaguely remember 1970's operators like Air Charter and Travel, City Air Links and IoM Flying Centre - but two had roots elsewhere and may well have been UK registered companies.
Just digging around the Net I see that Ravenair and Woodgate have aircraft based at Ronaldsway these days but both are UK operators. I've no idea where EuroManx have their AOC - possibly Austria as they use two Austrian registered Dash 8's.
I hope someone with more current knowledge may step in here as my association with Manx happenings ended some time ago. I am reasonably sure though that since revoking the Manx/IAT AOC's that none have subsequently been issued.
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From: England
[quote=IO540].................In any event, I am quite sure that nobody close to the IOM setup is going to be posting any details here. This stuff is highly political. .............. quote]
If you seriously want to know about the IOM register and have a genuine and realistic interest the Director will talk to you - he talked to me!
I don't think it is political really, it's a commercial decision. The IoM Government have a successful shipping register, and this has all sorts of spin off benefits for the IoM economy. Beneficiaries include Lawyers, Finance houses, Insurers, etc, all based in the Isle of Man. A logical extension is aircraft, as there are possibly even more spin offs there, many airliners and bizjets are lease financed, etc.
As I said before, the register is not one for SEP aircraft, think Gulfstream 4 and you're on the right wavelength!
If you seriously want to know about the IOM register and have a genuine and realistic interest the Director will talk to you - he talked to me!
I don't think it is political really, it's a commercial decision. The IoM Government have a successful shipping register, and this has all sorts of spin off benefits for the IoM economy. Beneficiaries include Lawyers, Finance houses, Insurers, etc, all based in the Isle of Man. A logical extension is aircraft, as there are possibly even more spin offs there, many airliners and bizjets are lease financed, etc.
As I said before, the register is not one for SEP aircraft, think Gulfstream 4 and you're on the right wavelength!
