Two men injured as plane crashes
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A remarkable story, with a good outcome, well done to the guys!! 
I liked to point out stories like these to some of my students and PPLs who never saw the point in practicing PFL's after there skills test.
This is why we practice PFL's, it may just happen to you one day, when your least expecting it!!
I liked to point out stories like these to some of my students and PPLs who never saw the point in practicing PFL's after there skills test.
This is why we practice PFL's, it may just happen to you one day, when your least expecting it!!
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The Beeb photo suggests that the a/c came to a halt in a standing crop. Tall crops are notorious for catching the undercarriage and causing rapid decelleration.
It is a shame, had they been luckier with the surface (short grass) then the aeroplane may have remained Dunlop side down.
At this time of year (in rural UK) it is often difficult to judge what you is in the field of your choice until you are committed. Notwithstanding that, you won't find many cattle/sheep in standing crops!
I think that I would be happier chancing it by landing in a ploughed field (with the furrows) than by landing in a wheat field.
It is a shame, had they been luckier with the surface (short grass) then the aeroplane may have remained Dunlop side down.
At this time of year (in rural UK) it is often difficult to judge what you is in the field of your choice until you are committed. Notwithstanding that, you won't find many cattle/sheep in standing crops!
I think that I would be happier chancing it by landing in a ploughed field (with the furrows) than by landing in a wheat field.
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I would pick a road if it is wide enough. Whilst on my skills test i was asked where i am going to land for my PFL, i told the examiner on the bloody great motorway below me. He smiled said and said he never heard that and most people elect for one of the multitude of fields around them. I said the motorway is a lovely runway, just a little busy thats all. He seemed happy enough.
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Given the choice in possibly wrecking your beloved light single in crops or a furrowed field and landing on a nice big road (even though you might upset the traffic flow) what would you choose???
How is this classed as a low PPL standard? Obviously i see the dangers of putting down on a road or motorway, ie. hitting a car or a car hitting me. But surely it can't be a low standard.
You could say it is a low standard to land in a field and have the possibility of flipping over or mowing a cow down, or realising when you get down close to the ground there is a load of dead ground which is really going to spoil your landing.
Each option is equally as hazardous and choosing either option is not a "low standard"...at least in my opinion.
How is this classed as a low PPL standard? Obviously i see the dangers of putting down on a road or motorway, ie. hitting a car or a car hitting me. But surely it can't be a low standard.
You could say it is a low standard to land in a field and have the possibility of flipping over or mowing a cow down, or realising when you get down close to the ground there is a load of dead ground which is really going to spoil your landing.
Each option is equally as hazardous and choosing either option is not a "low standard"...at least in my opinion.
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Mike:
I wasn't there, but pretty sure my aeroplane would've been, with one of my syndicate partners, who's quite big in that world.
GC:
How many roads are there in the UK, with no traffic on them, straight and flat, and orientated at least reasonably into wind?
Maybe in somewhere like Oz or sparsely populated parts of the US, yes, but in the UK?
How many UK gliders safely land out in fields during the summer months, managing to find suitable fields, devoid of too many beasties or tall crops? There are planty of eminently suitable fields out there.
And as for your use of the term motorway??? Strewth!
Saving the remnants of the aeroplane that has just let you down should be relatively low on your list of priorities, certainly not above avoiding needlessly and stupidly endangering the lives of anyone on the ground. Regardless of their safety, a moving vehicle will probably inflict much more damage on your puddlejumper than crop or pretty much any farm creature would.
Surely this is too obvious for even someonw outside aviation to understand, and is more common sense than airmanship? I can only hope that your PPL examiner thought you were joking when you made your somewhat idiotic comments.
I wasn't there, but pretty sure my aeroplane would've been, with one of my syndicate partners, who's quite big in that world.
GC:
How many roads are there in the UK, with no traffic on them, straight and flat, and orientated at least reasonably into wind?
Maybe in somewhere like Oz or sparsely populated parts of the US, yes, but in the UK?
How many UK gliders safely land out in fields during the summer months, managing to find suitable fields, devoid of too many beasties or tall crops? There are planty of eminently suitable fields out there.
And as for your use of the term motorway??? Strewth!
Saving the remnants of the aeroplane that has just let you down should be relatively low on your list of priorities, certainly not above avoiding needlessly and stupidly endangering the lives of anyone on the ground. Regardless of their safety, a moving vehicle will probably inflict much more damage on your puddlejumper than crop or pretty much any farm creature would.
Surely this is too obvious for even someonw outside aviation to understand, and is more common sense than airmanship? I can only hope that your PPL examiner thought you were joking when you made your somewhat idiotic comments.
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I can only hope that your PPL examiner thought you were joking when you made your somewhat idiotic comments.
Ther have been many succesful forced landings on roads,I seem to remember a PC12 turboprop doing so last year in the states and the pax walking away,also that 172 in the states who landed succesfully but the departure was awful,I am sure you have seen the video.....
Not to mention that film of the airliner landing on the car
I would certainly land on a road(IF a suitiable field was not availiable),a freind of mine tells me this is a routine thing in the world of microlight training.
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I personally can't think of anywhere I'd LESS like to land than on a British motorway or road. Central reservations, lights, overhead gantries, road signs, power lines and flyovers.
That's without taking into account of traffic and our responsibility of not putting people on the ground into undue risk because of our actions.
So whilst Fournicator's words may be harsh, they are accurate.
I'd much rather find a nice safe field to stick it into.
That's without taking into account of traffic and our responsibility of not putting people on the ground into undue risk because of our actions.
So whilst Fournicator's words may be harsh, they are accurate.
I'd much rather find a nice safe field to stick it into.
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Interesting reading these back and forth insults on these forums.
With regards to landing on roads, a road is a better choice than a field with a standing crop as long as you make sure it is clear of traffic and wires in the area you plan on touching down.
And of course there is ample room to do so.
Chuck E.
With regards to landing on roads, a road is a better choice than a field with a standing crop as long as you make sure it is clear of traffic and wires in the area you plan on touching down.
And of course there is ample room to do so.
Chuck E.
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Originally Posted by Chuck Ellsworth
With regards to landing on roads...
Flying a floatplane (at not-very-much above the treetops) I asked the instructor what we would do if the fan stopped, as we weren't high enough to make it to the next lake (and there weren't any fields of course).
"Land on the road," he said, pointing at a dirt track (on which we didn't see any vehicles the whole day). "We'll stop very quickly so we don't need much of the road to be in a straight line, we'll stay the right way up, and the floats will probably be repairable."
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Hi Gertrude!
You said:
" Ah, well, Vancouver Island is certainly different to south-east England ..."
Of course it is, more mountains for one thing..
However my comments were aimed at choosing a safe landing area for an engine out landing.
Please read my comments again and maybe point out where I was wrong?
Have another look at the airplane in the picture that landed in a field with a standing crop, then consider the odds of flipping upside down on a road.
By the way I am well aware of the road system in England, however there are roads that are landable...
Anyhow read what I posted and I believe that I am correct in my comparison between the chances of a safe landing on a suitable road versus a field with a standing crop.
Chuck E.
You said:
" Ah, well, Vancouver Island is certainly different to south-east England ..."
Of course it is, more mountains for one thing..
However my comments were aimed at choosing a safe landing area for an engine out landing.
Please read my comments again and maybe point out where I was wrong?
Have another look at the airplane in the picture that landed in a field with a standing crop, then consider the odds of flipping upside down on a road.
By the way I am well aware of the road system in England, however there are roads that are landable...
Anyhow read what I posted and I believe that I am correct in my comparison between the chances of a safe landing on a suitable road versus a field with a standing crop.
Chuck E.
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Chuck:
Couldn't agree more, old boy, but there are plenty of fields in the UK without tall crops in. Fields that are either fallow due to EU regulations (eurocrats actually inadvertently helping pilots, there's a turn up for the books), or where the crop is either short or has recently been harvested all offer much safer landing oppurtunites than most UK roads.
The majority of UK roads that aren't busy tend to be extremely narrow and with walls or hedges alongside them, not to mention being curvier than Pamela Anderson.
Couldn't agree more, old boy, but there are plenty of fields in the UK without tall crops in. Fields that are either fallow due to EU regulations (eurocrats actually inadvertently helping pilots, there's a turn up for the books), or where the crop is either short or has recently been harvested all offer much safer landing oppurtunites than most UK roads.
The majority of UK roads that aren't busy tend to be extremely narrow and with walls or hedges alongside them, not to mention being curvier than Pamela Anderson.
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Fournicator:
No argument there regarding fields and roads in England, all I was pointing out was sometimes the choice could be a road.
It would be interesting to know how many PPL's are taught how to judge crops and field conditions against roads for emergency landings?
I have noticed that if you are not wearing a bright green safety vest at a lot of your airports they become completely unglued because you might get run down by some pilot on the ramp.....strange real strange rules...
Anyhow off airport landings are a very important part of flying and the best advice I can give is teach em to " ALWAYS " be ready for an emergency landing and look for the best places as you fly...always...
Maybe some day I will relate some of the roads and beaches and eskers and snow surfaces we used to operate the DC3's on in the Canadian North and the High Arctic...
C.E.
No argument there regarding fields and roads in England, all I was pointing out was sometimes the choice could be a road.
It would be interesting to know how many PPL's are taught how to judge crops and field conditions against roads for emergency landings?
I have noticed that if you are not wearing a bright green safety vest at a lot of your airports they become completely unglued because you might get run down by some pilot on the ramp.....strange real strange rules...
Anyhow off airport landings are a very important part of flying and the best advice I can give is teach em to " ALWAYS " be ready for an emergency landing and look for the best places as you fly...always...
Maybe some day I will relate some of the roads and beaches and eskers and snow surfaces we used to operate the DC3's on in the Canadian North and the High Arctic...
C.E.
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Originally Posted by Chuck Ellsworth
Maybe some day I will relate some of the roads and beaches and eskers and snow surfaces we used to operate the DC3's on in the Canadian North and the High Arctic...
You're right, as far as I'm aware most PPL's don't get taught to recognise crops from the air, a skill drummed into cross-country glider pilots.
For anyone interested, a useful reference is:
http://www.field-landings.co.uk
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in a court of law I could probably explain my reasons for destroying an aircraft, cornfield or sheep but I would struggle to explain about the carnage caused by landing on a road some times in built areas where can one go but the least point of damage to human life and property and if that has to be a road so be it, that's why we have rule 5. well what about at fields that have houses on the departure one must think carefully on take off with a EFATO I try and think what if.
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Any PPL that's been through my hands will have been taught about crops and recognising them, infact there are very few I've ever met who don't have at least a passing knowledge of crops and why they are a bad idea to land on.
In the UK we are blessed with far more suitable fields to land in compared to suitable roads. I can think of very few places where it would be a consideration. Afterall, light a/c are able to operate from some pretty rough fields, so your average fallow or stubble field should present no problems at all.
At the end of the day, in a forced landing, the most important thing is to walk away, using the a/c again is of secondary importance, though obviously the less damaged it is, the less damaged you are likely to be!
Chuck, Don't you know that the Hi-viz jacket has been the single most important safety aid for aviation. More than having two crews, reliable engines, decent nav equipment or even a good dose of common sense! All hail to the yellow eyesores, the saviour of aviation.
In the UK we are blessed with far more suitable fields to land in compared to suitable roads. I can think of very few places where it would be a consideration. Afterall, light a/c are able to operate from some pretty rough fields, so your average fallow or stubble field should present no problems at all.
At the end of the day, in a forced landing, the most important thing is to walk away, using the a/c again is of secondary importance, though obviously the less damaged it is, the less damaged you are likely to be!
Chuck, Don't you know that the Hi-viz jacket has been the single most important safety aid for aviation. More than having two crews, reliable engines, decent nav equipment or even a good dose of common sense! All hail to the yellow eyesores, the saviour of aviation.