Couple RT questions/opinions
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with ATC having no idea where any of these places are
That's a difficult one.
We are taught to navigate visually, by reference to terrain features, villages, lakes, etc.
How can ATC be expected to know these places? I have very often heard this on the radio; some reference to some village. It is often a waste of everybody's time.
ATC reinforces this by requiring one to report at some VRP (even if the arrival is clearly navigating IFR, via intersections/navaids, and may have even requested a practice ILS) but then at least the VRP should be listed in the AIP entry for that airfield (which doesn't mean it's easy to find...).
This is one big reason why fully-IFR flight is so much less stressful than VFR. You don't somebody suddenly asking you to report at the "Nokia Factory" or whatever.
That's a difficult one.
We are taught to navigate visually, by reference to terrain features, villages, lakes, etc.
How can ATC be expected to know these places? I have very often heard this on the radio; some reference to some village. It is often a waste of everybody's time.
ATC reinforces this by requiring one to report at some VRP (even if the arrival is clearly navigating IFR, via intersections/navaids, and may have even requested a practice ILS) but then at least the VRP should be listed in the AIP entry for that airfield (which doesn't mean it's easy to find...).
This is one big reason why fully-IFR flight is so much less stressful than VFR. You don't somebody suddenly asking you to report at the "Nokia Factory" or whatever.
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Where ever you are most of the "traffic" is likely to be local. If you state where you are, the locals should have a pretty good idea, as hopefully will AT - but I agree those en route, not familiar with the area may not - certainly without looking at their map.
However by referencing your position to VRPs or even some other clear visual feature everyone stands a better chance. For example, whilst I cant remember whether Herne Bay is a VRP for Manston, tracking one mile offshore, abeam Herne Bay, tells everyone where you are. In other words try not to use obscure visual features such as the Nokia factory which probably looks like every other factory to the uniniated!
However by referencing your position to VRPs or even some other clear visual feature everyone stands a better chance. For example, whilst I cant remember whether Herne Bay is a VRP for Manston, tracking one mile offshore, abeam Herne Bay, tells everyone where you are. In other words try not to use obscure visual features such as the Nokia factory which probably looks like every other factory to the uniniated!
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Originally Posted by IO540
This is one big reason why fully-IFR flight is so much less stressful than VFR. You don't somebody suddenly asking you to report at the "Nokia Factory" or whatever.
Originally Posted by Fuji Abound
In other words try not to use obscure visual features such as the Nokia factory which probably looks like every other factory to the uniniated!
The Nokia factory is published and clearly marked on the charts.
One does not have to see the factory to know where it is. There is a bloody big airfield very close and a motorway and another smaller airfield and several other features that one can use to locate the VRP.....................unless one is struggling to navigate and prodding the GPS to try and get it to tell you where the factory is.
Reminds me of the Tomtom navigator ad - Fuji, Fuji, is that the VRP ahead - ????, Fuji Fuji, I have a zone ahead who do I call - ??????, Fuji Fuji the GPS it taking an age to fiddle with, was that flash an aircraft passing close by?
Basic simple VFR avigation in an area with a host of visual features should not be a problem to so called "real pilots" should it?
------------
Remember that the ATCO doing radar at XYZ approach most probably will not be a local and may not know much more than the locations commonally used i.e. VRPs and the locations they drive through on the way to work. Thus it is always best to reference location to a VRP or Navigation Aid.
Don't forget that England has many places with the same name (sometimes more than 1 in the same county!)
Regards,
DFC
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The Nokia factory is published and clearly marked on the charts.
Which really helps in identifying it.....
A lot of VRPs are very hard to identify, but of course the locals never see the problem.
Which really helps in identifying it.....
A lot of VRPs are very hard to identify, but of course the locals never see the problem.
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"The Nokia factory is published and clearly marked on the charts."
I havent got the faintest idea where the Nokia factory is - I assumed it was a hypothetical feature.
I guess if it is published then it must be clearly marked so there is a good chance we are likely to be able to spot it.
However, it always use to intrigue me the pilots trying to find the testing ground en route to the PFA rally - it seemed a pretty good feature to me, but many find other wise.
"Basic simple VFR avigation in an area with a host of visual features should not be a problem to so called "real pilots" should it?"
So true - but we know who to blame for it being a problem - the instructors.
"Reminds me of the Tomtom navigator ad - Fuji, Fuji, is that the VRP ahead - ????, Fuji Fuji, I have a zone ahead who do I call - ??????, Fuji Fuji the GPS it taking an age to fiddle with, was that flash an aircraft passing close by?"
DFC - you must be confused, Tomtom is something we use on the roads not in the air. You are not using it in the air are you and trying to read the raod signs at the same time. You need a helicopter for that I find.
I havent got the faintest idea where the Nokia factory is - I assumed it was a hypothetical feature.
I guess if it is published then it must be clearly marked so there is a good chance we are likely to be able to spot it.
However, it always use to intrigue me the pilots trying to find the testing ground en route to the PFA rally - it seemed a pretty good feature to me, but many find other wise.
"Basic simple VFR avigation in an area with a host of visual features should not be a problem to so called "real pilots" should it?"
So true - but we know who to blame for it being a problem - the instructors.
"Reminds me of the Tomtom navigator ad - Fuji, Fuji, is that the VRP ahead - ????, Fuji Fuji, I have a zone ahead who do I call - ??????, Fuji Fuji the GPS it taking an age to fiddle with, was that flash an aircraft passing close by?"
DFC - you must be confused, Tomtom is something we use on the roads not in the air. You are not using it in the air are you and trying to read the raod signs at the same time. You need a helicopter for that I find.
Last edited by Fuji Abound; 13th Jun 2006 at 15:10.
