UK microlight on FAA PPC?
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UK microlight on FAA PPC?
Hi all, I've lurked and searched for a long time but did not find an answer to this:-
I've just returned to the UK with an FAA cert after having lived out in the US for a couple of years.
With the 152/172 rates being what they are here, I am looking at 3-axis microlights instead. Can I fly these in the UK on my FAA cert? If so, can I log the time as PIC?
Cheers for any pointers :-)
Al
I've just returned to the UK with an FAA cert after having lived out in the US for a couple of years.
With the 152/172 rates being what they are here, I am looking at 3-axis microlights instead. Can I fly these in the UK on my FAA cert? If so, can I log the time as PIC?
Cheers for any pointers :-)
Al
Somewhere in your post is a typo, the question is where?
If you've got an FAA PPL then, subject to having differences training for microlights signed off in your logbook by a microlight FI then yes, you can fly UK microlights on an FAA PPL(SEL). And yes, you can log PiC, but you will still need to have a current FAA medical and BFR.
If it's a USUA-PPC certificate, then no, you'll need to do an NPPL(microlights).
G
If you've got an FAA PPL then, subject to having differences training for microlights signed off in your logbook by a microlight FI then yes, you can fly UK microlights on an FAA PPL(SEL). And yes, you can log PiC, but you will still need to have a current FAA medical and BFR.
If it's a USUA-PPC certificate, then no, you'll need to do an NPPL(microlights).
G
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Hi Genghis, thanks for the reply.
Yes it is a shiny new FAA PPL(SEL). I finished it only last week. I described it as certificate as that is what they seem to be called in FAA land.
I have a 3rd class FAA medical. I'm near Birmingham so next stop will be the local Microlight club for more info.
Thanks again.
Al
Yes it is a shiny new FAA PPL(SEL). I finished it only last week. I described it as certificate as that is what they seem to be called in FAA land.
I have a 3rd class FAA medical. I'm near Birmingham so next stop will be the local Microlight club for more info.
Thanks again.
Al
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Re: UK microlight on FAA PPC?
Hi Genghis, would you be able to point me in the direction of a reference for this? The person I am talking to at the BMAA says that the "CAA will not allow Microlights to be flown in the UK on any foreign license." Therefore I would need to do the NPPL.
Cheers,
Al
Cheers,
Al
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Re: UK microlight on FAA PPC?
I asked the same question of the CAA. It was a long and tedious affair, but the final answer was that it wasn't possible. I think.
Re: UK microlight on FAA PPC?
Well, CAA do keep moving the goalposts, so it could be that my information is out of date - but that certainly was the position at one point.
The person to ask is Roy Hart at BMAA, 01869-338888
G
The person to ask is Roy Hart at BMAA, 01869-338888
G
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Re: UK microlight on FAA PPC?
Al,
Commiserations on having left flying paradise. I am in the same position (except still hanging on in the US), and had the exact same thoughts. Roy Hart at the bmaa replied to my email a while back with a clear if concise "no, it is not legal". When I asked after the regs governing this restriction, he replied with details of what I would need to do. This turned out to be the entire NPPL course, including training to "bring me up to GST standard" (thanks, Roy) and the skills tests (checkrides). And of course shelling out to the bmaa for a licence, no doubt with periodic testing and renewal fees, medicals and the rest.
Further research on the bmaa website yielded this:
The holder of any licence issued by an ICAO Contracting State who wishes to obtain a NPPL (SEP) should contact the NPPL (SEP) assistance advisers for advice on the specific requirements for licence conversion.
These requirements will be determined by the holder’s current experience and will be assessed individually. The applicant must also have passed the JAR-FCL PPL (A) Air Law and Operational Procedures and Human
Performance and Limitation examinations prior to taking the NPPL (SEP) NST and GST. However, holders of such licences which are current and valid in all respects who have flown a minimum of 100 hours as pilot of
aeroplanes shall be credited the NPPL NST if they have also flown a minimum of 5 hours P1C cross-country flight time in UK airspace in the 12 months prior to the date of licence application.
So it seems that you might get away with much of the NPPL training on the basis of your FAA licence, but you should speak to the bmaa as the website suggests.
However, the above excerpt is very similar to the procedure for converting to the JAR-PPL on the basis of your FAA licence. You can then fly microlights once you get a sign-off, plus the heavier stuff you are used to as and when the finances allow. This might be a better bet.
As to why the bmaa won't permit something which even the CAA has no problem with, answers on a postcard.
Commiserations on having left flying paradise. I am in the same position (except still hanging on in the US), and had the exact same thoughts. Roy Hart at the bmaa replied to my email a while back with a clear if concise "no, it is not legal". When I asked after the regs governing this restriction, he replied with details of what I would need to do. This turned out to be the entire NPPL course, including training to "bring me up to GST standard" (thanks, Roy) and the skills tests (checkrides). And of course shelling out to the bmaa for a licence, no doubt with periodic testing and renewal fees, medicals and the rest.
Further research on the bmaa website yielded this:
The holder of any licence issued by an ICAO Contracting State who wishes to obtain a NPPL (SEP) should contact the NPPL (SEP) assistance advisers for advice on the specific requirements for licence conversion.
These requirements will be determined by the holder’s current experience and will be assessed individually. The applicant must also have passed the JAR-FCL PPL (A) Air Law and Operational Procedures and Human
Performance and Limitation examinations prior to taking the NPPL (SEP) NST and GST. However, holders of such licences which are current and valid in all respects who have flown a minimum of 100 hours as pilot of
aeroplanes shall be credited the NPPL NST if they have also flown a minimum of 5 hours P1C cross-country flight time in UK airspace in the 12 months prior to the date of licence application.
So it seems that you might get away with much of the NPPL training on the basis of your FAA licence, but you should speak to the bmaa as the website suggests.
However, the above excerpt is very similar to the procedure for converting to the JAR-PPL on the basis of your FAA licence. You can then fly microlights once you get a sign-off, plus the heavier stuff you are used to as and when the finances allow. This might be a better bet.
As to why the bmaa won't permit something which even the CAA has no problem with, answers on a postcard.
Re: UK microlight on FAA PPC?
If you wish to obtain a NPPL with SSEA Class Rating based on a current and valid ICAO licence, you must then complete differences training on microlight aircraft before adding microlight privileges to your NPPL. That is as the result of a CAA error; this is expected to be corrected soon, so that in the near future you will need to have a Microlight Class Rating to fly microlight aircraft on any NPPL. However, the benefit of this is that you will be able to maintain both SSEA and Microlight Class Ratings by a yet-to-be announced combination of hours flown on either class of aircraft.
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Re: UK microlight on FAA PPC?
Thanks for all the replies.
Yes, it was Roy Hart I emailed, and I also received the "Do the full NPPL" answer.
I have just over 100 hrs total in my logbook (or will have after this weekend, as I am back in San Diego for a few days)
So it seems I have 2 options,
1) Do the NPPL, as Roy suggested
2) Convert my FAA license into a JAR PPL by completing the exams, flight test, medical etc. Then I would have also have to keep it current on something other than a microlight for the hours to count.
Another question - apologies if I have the terminology incorrect; I understand that some microlights can be registered as "Group A" rather than "Microlight" Does this help in any way? Is a Group A aircraft flyable in the UK on the FAA license?
Has anyone created a guide/book for the differences between FAA/JAA eg. differences between the nav charts, radio calls, traffic patterns etc?
Al
Yes, it was Roy Hart I emailed, and I also received the "Do the full NPPL" answer.
I have just over 100 hrs total in my logbook (or will have after this weekend, as I am back in San Diego for a few days)
So it seems I have 2 options,
1) Do the NPPL, as Roy suggested
2) Convert my FAA license into a JAR PPL by completing the exams, flight test, medical etc. Then I would have also have to keep it current on something other than a microlight for the hours to count.
Another question - apologies if I have the terminology incorrect; I understand that some microlights can be registered as "Group A" rather than "Microlight" Does this help in any way? Is a Group A aircraft flyable in the UK on the FAA license?
Has anyone created a guide/book for the differences between FAA/JAA eg. differences between the nav charts, radio calls, traffic patterns etc?
Al
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Re: UK microlight on FAA PPC?
I understand that some microlights can be registered as "Group A" rather than "Microlight" Does this help in any way? Is a Group A aircraft flyable in the UK on the FAA license?
Has anyone created a guide/book for the differences between FAA/JAA eg. differences between the nav charts, radio calls, traffic patterns etc?
Re: UK microlight on FAA PPC?
You may use the privileges of an ICAO licence (such as a FAA PPL) to fly SEP Class aircraft in the UK under day VFR conditions. All UK night flying is IFR except for SVFR in Class 'D' airspace; your night flying privileges elsewhere are unclear and open to interpretation due to the FAA requirement that to fly under IFR you need an IR.... The UK does not have such a rule, provided that you do not fly in IMC.
Once you have converetd your licence to a JAR-FCL PPL(A), you will indeed need to complete differences training to add microlight privileges to your SEP Class Rating privileges. As for cost, excluding hire costs a PPL Skill Test will cost you about £160 for the examiner's fee, the licence issue fee is £159 and the licence lasts for 5 years, after which a £63 re-issue fee is required. To maintain validity, you must either achieve the required experience in the second of the 12 month periods for which your Rating is valid, or pass a Licence Proficiency Check in the final 3 months of the validity period. Microlight hours do not count towards revalidation.
'Group A' is an obsolete term and referred to single engine aeroplanes of less than 5700kg MTOW which were not microlights. The correct term is now 'Single Engine Piston' Class - SEP Class for short.
To learn about UK differences, download CAP413 and LASORS2006 from the CAA website. Then you will no doubt be required to fly with an instructor before people will be prepared to hire you an aeroplane.
Once you have converetd your licence to a JAR-FCL PPL(A), you will indeed need to complete differences training to add microlight privileges to your SEP Class Rating privileges. As for cost, excluding hire costs a PPL Skill Test will cost you about £160 for the examiner's fee, the licence issue fee is £159 and the licence lasts for 5 years, after which a £63 re-issue fee is required. To maintain validity, you must either achieve the required experience in the second of the 12 month periods for which your Rating is valid, or pass a Licence Proficiency Check in the final 3 months of the validity period. Microlight hours do not count towards revalidation.
'Group A' is an obsolete term and referred to single engine aeroplanes of less than 5700kg MTOW which were not microlights. The correct term is now 'Single Engine Piston' Class - SEP Class for short.
To learn about UK differences, download CAP413 and LASORS2006 from the CAA website. Then you will no doubt be required to fly with an instructor before people will be prepared to hire you an aeroplane.
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Re: UK microlight on FAA PPC?
Originally Posted by Beagle
You may use the privileges of an ICAO licence (such as a FAA PPL) to fly SEP Class aircraft in the UK
" Can I fly these in the UK on my FAA cert? If so, can I log the time as PIC?"
Yes
In accordance with ANO Article 26 (4)(a) You do not need any other licence despite what you may have been told.
The FAA Cert must be valid, the FAA Medical must be valid and you must have had a Bienial Flight Review in the past two years.
Yes
In accordance with ANO Article 26 (4)(a) You do not need any other licence despite what you may have been told.
The FAA Cert must be valid, the FAA Medical must be valid and you must have had a Bienial Flight Review in the past two years.
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Has anyone created a guide/book for the differences between FAA/JAA eg. differences between the nav charts, radio calls, traffic patterns etc?
dp
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Having recently discussed this issue with someone in a similar situation, both in discussions with the CAA and the BMAA I can clarify this further - you can fly any aircraft in the UK that the FAA licence allowed you to fly - but be warned - a JAR SEP does not cover the same aircraft as the FAA PPC, because of the different ways a/c in the US are classified vs the UK.
For instance as I understand it an FAA PPC does not let you fly UAs (correct me if I am wrong!)....in the situation I was privvy to, the aircraft is classied as a Microlight in the UK, but an SEL in the US - so in this case the pilot *could* fly the microlight on his FAA PPC perfectly legally...in fact he had an FAA CPL but situation is the same....
Hope this helps,
FF
For instance as I understand it an FAA PPC does not let you fly UAs (correct me if I am wrong!)....in the situation I was privvy to, the aircraft is classied as a Microlight in the UK, but an SEL in the US - so in this case the pilot *could* fly the microlight on his FAA PPC perfectly legally...in fact he had an FAA CPL but situation is the same....
Hope this helps,
FF
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This is not what the BMAA seem to say. I was told unequivocally that it is not legal to fly microlights in the UK on an FAA certificate. As far as the FAA are concerned I would be legal, but in the eyes of the BMAA apparently not. It is unclear how this is reconciled with the ANO section on recognition of other ICAO licences.
If by UA you mean an ultralight, believe it or not you don't need any kind of licence to fly the flexwing type in the US (not that I ever recall seeing one). The three axis types can be flown on the relatively new FAA Sport Pilots Certificate, daytime VFR only within a certain radius of the home field, and with some other restrictions. However the Private Pilot Certificate trumps this (ie you can fly ultralights without the need for special training or an add on rating).
If by UA you mean an ultralight, believe it or not you don't need any kind of licence to fly the flexwing type in the US (not that I ever recall seeing one). The three axis types can be flown on the relatively new FAA Sport Pilots Certificate, daytime VFR only within a certain radius of the home field, and with some other restrictions. However the Private Pilot Certificate trumps this (ie you can fly ultralights without the need for special training or an add on rating).