how to improve LOOKOUT? or Flightsimmer Problems...?
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saraksh
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
how to improve LOOKOUT? or Flightsimmer Problems...?
Need some advice, but please take it serious
At the moment after 9 hr flight training i know that my 2x biggest mistakes coming from 8 years flightsim on computer.
Problem N1: LOOKOUT. Somehow i forgetting oft to do it and looking more than it needed on instruments. Not good for VFR and not good at all. What is your tips for that? How to improve it?
Problem N2: Rudder. I forget oft about rudder's existence. How to make it always combined with throttle settings automatically?
Anybody had such problems also? Need some tips from you, guys
At the moment after 9 hr flight training i know that my 2x biggest mistakes coming from 8 years flightsim on computer.
Problem N1: LOOKOUT. Somehow i forgetting oft to do it and looking more than it needed on instruments. Not good for VFR and not good at all. What is your tips for that? How to improve it?
Problem N2: Rudder. I forget oft about rudder's existence. How to make it always combined with throttle settings automatically?
Anybody had such problems also? Need some tips from you, guys
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Get the biggest chart you can find and cover all the instruments but fold a corner so the FI can see the alt, it doesn't need to be in date BTW. Then fly and be happy.
Every time you change the throttle adjust your nuts. If its power up use your left hand power down use your right. It won't make a difference but the fact you are thinking power up and power down will stimulate your brain and it will happen.
The instrument thing is only really solved completely by becoming a instructor and flying from the RHS seat all the time. The night rating restriction removal gives you a black belt in flying by attitude and engine noise.
Don't beat yourself up though its a very common problem even with people with no FS time. Every instructor has there own method of dealing with it. Be it post-it notes or a GBFO chart across the lot depending on there own limitations. Best solution I have seen is 2 carboard cutouts for the alt and the air speed with +- 100ft and +- 5 knots everything else was covered from hour zero.
Persoanlly if i even suspected instrument fixation the whole lot got covered. And the basics were revisited until the student was able to trim for all modes of flight without the things. What does get to annoy though is students without anything can fly a perfect circuit at cock on circuit height, correct airspeed etc without any instruments at all. Then proceed to make a complete bollocks of it when they can see only the alt, rpm and ASI.
"look out the bloody window" must be one of the most used phrases in aviation training.
Every time you change the throttle adjust your nuts. If its power up use your left hand power down use your right. It won't make a difference but the fact you are thinking power up and power down will stimulate your brain and it will happen.
The instrument thing is only really solved completely by becoming a instructor and flying from the RHS seat all the time. The night rating restriction removal gives you a black belt in flying by attitude and engine noise.
Don't beat yourself up though its a very common problem even with people with no FS time. Every instructor has there own method of dealing with it. Be it post-it notes or a GBFO chart across the lot depending on there own limitations. Best solution I have seen is 2 carboard cutouts for the alt and the air speed with +- 100ft and +- 5 knots everything else was covered from hour zero.
Persoanlly if i even suspected instrument fixation the whole lot got covered. And the basics were revisited until the student was able to trim for all modes of flight without the things. What does get to annoy though is students without anything can fly a perfect circuit at cock on circuit height, correct airspeed etc without any instruments at all. Then proceed to make a complete bollocks of it when they can see only the alt, rpm and ASI.
"look out the bloody window" must be one of the most used phrases in aviation training.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not that I particularly disagree with anything above but it could be argued both ways. I am not one to avoid controversy, so here we go...
It's very true that PPL instructors dislike students who have previous sim experience. If the student used the sim correctly and actually learnt on it as one would do on a real sim, he is likely to be flying by numbers and at least partly on instruments. There is a big body of opinion among the traditional VFR scene that there is no place for this in PPL training - even though if you fly something slightly more complex than a C150 you will be operating by numbers if doing it properly.
Another thing is that a student who has been doing "technical" flying like this is likely to have a much better understanding of the plane and the systems in it. Plus superior situational awareness resulting from instrument navigation. But, again, instructors don't like people who "run before they can walk". I was constantly accused of this, when looking at planes to fly IFR as soon as I started PPL training (because it was so obvious that VFR is of very limited use for going places).
There are instructors who are willing to take on board a challenging student like that and have some fun, while most others will regard him as a smart-ar*e who is way ahead of himself.
In the longer run, decent instrument flight capability (whether or not legalised in the form of the IMC Rating or an IR) is essential for VFR flight, due to frequent poor visibility in haze or rain. Or at night...
It's very true that PPL instructors dislike students who have previous sim experience. If the student used the sim correctly and actually learnt on it as one would do on a real sim, he is likely to be flying by numbers and at least partly on instruments. There is a big body of opinion among the traditional VFR scene that there is no place for this in PPL training - even though if you fly something slightly more complex than a C150 you will be operating by numbers if doing it properly.
Another thing is that a student who has been doing "technical" flying like this is likely to have a much better understanding of the plane and the systems in it. Plus superior situational awareness resulting from instrument navigation. But, again, instructors don't like people who "run before they can walk". I was constantly accused of this, when looking at planes to fly IFR as soon as I started PPL training (because it was so obvious that VFR is of very limited use for going places).
There are instructors who are willing to take on board a challenging student like that and have some fun, while most others will regard him as a smart-ar*e who is way ahead of himself.
In the longer run, decent instrument flight capability (whether or not legalised in the form of the IMC Rating or an IR) is essential for VFR flight, due to frequent poor visibility in haze or rain. Or at night...
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Get the biggest chart you can find and cover all the instruments but fold a corner so the FI can see the alt, it doesn't need to be in date BTW. Then fly and be happy.
Or if you want something a bit easier use post it notes to cover selected instruments up.
On my IR check ride the examiner failed instruments using a rubber suction soap holder!!!
Julian.
Or if you want something a bit easier use post it notes to cover selected instruments up.
On my IR check ride the examiner failed instruments using a rubber suction soap holder!!!
Julian.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On a sim like FS2004, one can also select a cockpit view which doesn't show much of the instruments.
Unfortunately, every PC sim I've ever used is useless in pitch behaviour. X-Plane got closest. This is a pity since going the pitch trim correctly and using it in all phases of flight is crucial in cockpit workload control, in all flight, VFR included.
Unfortunately, every PC sim I've ever used is useless in pitch behaviour. X-Plane got closest. This is a pity since going the pitch trim correctly and using it in all phases of flight is crucial in cockpit workload control, in all flight, VFR included.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Swindon, Wilts,UK
Posts: 567
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Problem N2: Rudder. I forget oft about rudder's existence. How to make it always combined with throttle settings automatically?
Best of luck with the training.
I'll second Windy M's comment. Spend some time in the back seat of a Piper Cub (J3/L4 not Supercub) where all you can see of the instrument panel is over the instructor's shoulders and you will lose the fixation with the instruments and concentrate on flying by feel. The adverse yaw that you get by trying to turn on ailerons alone will soon focus your feet.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: ubiquitous
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It'll all come together.
Just focus outside the cockpit and use instruments to confirm the situation.
In other words, use your instruments only to confirm situational awareness.
I have progressed from staring at certain instruments to not even looking at them, if only to confirm the situation (e.g. climb at Vy, etc etc..).
Just focus outside the cockpit and use instruments to confirm the situation.
In other words, use your instruments only to confirm situational awareness.
I have progressed from staring at certain instruments to not even looking at them, if only to confirm the situation (e.g. climb at Vy, etc etc..).
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ireland
Age: 44
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MJ and IO540 have very good points, there's not much for me to add!
I admit I had the same problem going from the sim to real life - flying the real thing is a bit like agoraphobia - suddenly you see far too much. For lookout, my instructor told me to imagine I'm about to be jumped by an Me-109 - it does wonders!
One of the great things about real life is that it's frequently inaccurate - even with the latest version of X-Plane (used only for research purposes
) it seems difficult to land - or at least until you compare it with the real thing, which is so easy it's unrealistic!
Next time you're up, take a look out along the wing and roll a couple of degrees each way. You'll notice adverse yaw is very obvious (at least on the Warrior II), and it's a good way of teaching your feet what to do. Do a couple of large deflection aileron movements and you'll notice the roll is a lot faster and smoother with a hefty boot of rudder. Also realise that at climb power you MUST have one foot (usually the right one) doing some work, even more at slower speeds.
Attitude is the single most important factor in flying, but it's self regulating once the aircraft is trimmed correctly. When it's trimmed for level flight at 90 knots, open the throttle to max. The aircraft won't accelerate, but climb. Counterintuitive but fascinating!
I HIGHLY recommend www.av8n.com for an explanation of how an aircraft really flies - none of this "attitude + power = performance" nonsense... whoever thought that up should be forced to fly Cessnas for the rest of their life!
I admit I had the same problem going from the sim to real life - flying the real thing is a bit like agoraphobia - suddenly you see far too much. For lookout, my instructor told me to imagine I'm about to be jumped by an Me-109 - it does wonders!
One of the great things about real life is that it's frequently inaccurate - even with the latest version of X-Plane (used only for research purposes
) it seems difficult to land - or at least until you compare it with the real thing, which is so easy it's unrealistic!Next time you're up, take a look out along the wing and roll a couple of degrees each way. You'll notice adverse yaw is very obvious (at least on the Warrior II), and it's a good way of teaching your feet what to do. Do a couple of large deflection aileron movements and you'll notice the roll is a lot faster and smoother with a hefty boot of rudder. Also realise that at climb power you MUST have one foot (usually the right one) doing some work, even more at slower speeds.
Attitude is the single most important factor in flying, but it's self regulating once the aircraft is trimmed correctly. When it's trimmed for level flight at 90 knots, open the throttle to max. The aircraft won't accelerate, but climb. Counterintuitive but fascinating!
I HIGHLY recommend www.av8n.com for an explanation of how an aircraft really flies - none of this "attitude + power = performance" nonsense... whoever thought that up should be forced to fly Cessnas for the rest of their life!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Euroland
Posts: 2,814
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Confabulous
none of this "attitude + power = performance" nonsense... whoever thought that up should be forced to fly Cessnas for the rest of their life!
Regards,
DFC
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by IO540
There is a big body of opinion among the traditional VFR scene that there is no place for this in PPL training - even though if you fly something slightly more complex than a C150 you will be operating by numbers if doing it properly.
Another thing is that a student who has been doing "technical" flying like this is likely to have a much better understanding of the plane and the systems in it. Plus superior situational awareness resulting from instrument navigation. But, again, instructors don't like people who "run before they can walk". I was constantly accused of this, when looking at planes to fly IFR as soon as I started PPL training (because it was so obvious that VFR is of very limited use for going places).
There are instructors who are willing to take on board a challenging student like that and have some fun, while most others will regard him as a smart-ar*e who is way ahead of himself.
In the longer run, decent instrument flight capability (whether or not legalised in the form of the IMC Rating or an IR) is essential for VFR flight, due to frequent poor visibility in haze or rain. Or at night...
Another thing is that a student who has been doing "technical" flying like this is likely to have a much better understanding of the plane and the systems in it. Plus superior situational awareness resulting from instrument navigation. But, again, instructors don't like people who "run before they can walk". I was constantly accused of this, when looking at planes to fly IFR as soon as I started PPL training (because it was so obvious that VFR is of very limited use for going places).
There are instructors who are willing to take on board a challenging student like that and have some fun, while most others will regard him as a smart-ar*e who is way ahead of himself.
In the longer run, decent instrument flight capability (whether or not legalised in the form of the IMC Rating or an IR) is essential for VFR flight, due to frequent poor visibility in haze or rain. Or at night...
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saraksh
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but how to delete and cancell all my knowledge from flightsim? i understand totally, that it is very bad fro VFR and i just hate myself about this stopid mistakes i do, but somehow it is really some flightsim instincts established and it is very difficult to get away from it
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well, akuba, w/o knowing you, your flying or your instructor this is hard to tell, but I'm going to say the heretic here - what if the problem is your instructor? There are, after all, plenty out there for whom anything else but a whisky compass and an ASI are works of the devil..... tin hat now on.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,580
Received 438 Likes
on
231 Posts
No rudder awareness and too much reliance on instruments, eh?
Try flying a glider. That'll cure it.
Try flying a glider. That'll cure it.
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
acuba,
Practice, practice, practise. Oh, and then some more practice. That is how you change any habit, flying-related or otherwise. And that's all your looking at instruments all the time is - a habit. And when your instructor reminds you to look out the window, just do that; don't run around in your head beating yourself up over having made a mistake yet again. Ditto for using the rudder.
And don't listen to all these people on here telling you knowledge of instrument flying is wonderful. It is, but you need to learn to fly by looking out the window first. Anyway, why not, on a lovely day like this? That's what you're up there for, isn't it.
It's a common problem, and you're very new to flying, so please stop worrying so much. Ask and try and correct, yes! But don't worry; if you work at it, it will get better.
Practice, practice, practise. Oh, and then some more practice. That is how you change any habit, flying-related or otherwise. And that's all your looking at instruments all the time is - a habit. And when your instructor reminds you to look out the window, just do that; don't run around in your head beating yourself up over having made a mistake yet again. Ditto for using the rudder.
And don't listen to all these people on here telling you knowledge of instrument flying is wonderful. It is, but you need to learn to fly by looking out the window first. Anyway, why not, on a lovely day like this? That's what you're up there for, isn't it.
It's a common problem, and you're very new to flying, so please stop worrying so much. Ask and try and correct, yes! But don't worry; if you work at it, it will get better.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ireland
Age: 44
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please explain why that statement is wrong and how you operate the aircraft not using those basic principles?
1. In the mushing regime, nose high.
2. At high cruise speeds (try raising the nose, speed will decrease, even at max throttle)
Finally, it also give the impression that pointing the nose up and shoving the throttle forward gives a climb. Not always.
In short, it's hopelessly inadequate for all but a very limited range of speeds. Fine if you're flying an F16, but useless in a light aircraft. A student, if given only this 'rule' would stall and spin, in my opinion.
You're reading far too much into "attitude + power = performance", Confabulous.
The essence is that (longitudinal) performance is determined predictably from a combination of input variables: aircraft attitude and powerplant output. It makes no claim on the direction of change of the outputs (speed, rate of climb) inputs in response to changes in the inputs. It would be better expressed as "performance is a function of attitude and power", but that's less comprehensible to students without technical backgrounds.
The essence is that (longitudinal) performance is determined predictably from a combination of input variables: aircraft attitude and powerplant output. It makes no claim on the direction of change of the outputs (speed, rate of climb) inputs in response to changes in the inputs. It would be better expressed as "performance is a function of attitude and power", but that's less comprehensible to students without technical backgrounds.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: EXPECT DIVERSIONS
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear a
In terms of cancelling or deleting things youve learnt on FS, there is no silver bullet. however, it can be completly overcome if you take full advantage of the time you have in the air...
I am not an instructor, i am a student as well.
I didnt start using FS2002 until after i finished my PPL so i learnt to fly without it but hopefully i can help.
i might first suggest that you not use flight simulator for a while. the reason for this is; you may be picking up bad habits which could be cancelling out the good work your instructor is providing for you. It's not forever, i have found FS immensly helpful for more advanced stages of learning. if you can find an instructor who is personally experienced with PC flight simulators, he will be able to tell you when that is
For the rudder, the key is in looking closley at and picking a point on the horizon and practising using the rudder to keep the nose fixed on that point on the horizon.
If you fixate on keeping the tip of the nose pointed to that point on the horizon on takeoff, climb, cruise, everything, you should improve markedly.
eg: in the climb after takeoff, you are supposed to use right rudder because of low speed/high power, yeah? well if you look at the horizon while you are climbing and the nose is drifting off to the left, you arent using enough right foot/rudder. if its drifting off to the right, youre using too much. avoid using ailerons for these small corrections while dual, practise 'locking' the aileron in place during the climb like so:
your right hand should be on the throttle. the thimb of your left hand should be curled around the apex of the "L" shape of the left side of the control column, hand in a fist-shape and the pinkey resting on your knee.
this will help you resist 'waggling' the ailerons.
it sounds really basic but perhaps your experience with flight simultor has caused you to not concentrate so much on isolating a point on the horizon to steer towards. This might be because of a lack of graphical detail on the simulated horizon.
when it comes to climing and decending, and straight and level for that matter. for me the key is in how far above the top of the compass or dashboard the horizon is. also, listen closly to the engine, get to know what it sounds like when its cruising along straight and level. if you start an involuntary climb, it will begin to sound a bit slower and obviously if youre decending, it will start to sound like its going a bit faster. these things are corrected with the elevator. if the engines labouring, look out at the horizon and i bet you 99% you are in a slight climb.
horizon
In terms of cancelling or deleting things youve learnt on FS, there is no silver bullet. however, it can be completly overcome if you take full advantage of the time you have in the air...
I am not an instructor, i am a student as well.
I didnt start using FS2002 until after i finished my PPL so i learnt to fly without it but hopefully i can help.
i might first suggest that you not use flight simulator for a while. the reason for this is; you may be picking up bad habits which could be cancelling out the good work your instructor is providing for you. It's not forever, i have found FS immensly helpful for more advanced stages of learning. if you can find an instructor who is personally experienced with PC flight simulators, he will be able to tell you when that is
For the rudder, the key is in looking closley at and picking a point on the horizon and practising using the rudder to keep the nose fixed on that point on the horizon.
If you fixate on keeping the tip of the nose pointed to that point on the horizon on takeoff, climb, cruise, everything, you should improve markedly.
eg: in the climb after takeoff, you are supposed to use right rudder because of low speed/high power, yeah? well if you look at the horizon while you are climbing and the nose is drifting off to the left, you arent using enough right foot/rudder. if its drifting off to the right, youre using too much. avoid using ailerons for these small corrections while dual, practise 'locking' the aileron in place during the climb like so:
your right hand should be on the throttle. the thimb of your left hand should be curled around the apex of the "L" shape of the left side of the control column, hand in a fist-shape and the pinkey resting on your knee.
this will help you resist 'waggling' the ailerons.
it sounds really basic but perhaps your experience with flight simultor has caused you to not concentrate so much on isolating a point on the horizon to steer towards. This might be because of a lack of graphical detail on the simulated horizon.
when it comes to climing and decending, and straight and level for that matter. for me the key is in how far above the top of the compass or dashboard the horizon is. also, listen closly to the engine, get to know what it sounds like when its cruising along straight and level. if you start an involuntary climb, it will begin to sound a bit slower and obviously if youre decending, it will start to sound like its going a bit faster. these things are corrected with the elevator. if the engines labouring, look out at the horizon and i bet you 99% you are in a slight climb.
horizon
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Instrument fixation and rudder
1. The panel of this Citabria doesn't provide much distraction:
2. and the fact it has a tailwheel forces you to use the rudder.
3. to go places without IFR, try living in Australia
(ducking while running away)
It will come. Good luck!
2. and the fact it has a tailwheel forces you to use the rudder.
3. to go places without IFR, try living in Australia
(ducking while running away)
It will come. Good luck!