Logging hours
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Logging hours
I was going to ask the question at the club this weekend but due to ruddy weather have not been there.
I passed my skills test on May 19th,got log signed off and posted everything to the CAA.
The next day I flew a 50 mins eyeball nav ex with the CFI which he told me to log P1-S,
I also hope to fly solo next Friday which may be before my new licence come through the post.
Question-Can I enter these hours in my log under the new licence,ie,does all my flying after the test and log was signed off count towards my real PPL flying time?
Am I a real PPL pilot immediatley after the skills test or is it on receipt of licence?
I hope all this makes sense.
Lister
I passed my skills test on May 19th,got log signed off and posted everything to the CAA.
The next day I flew a 50 mins eyeball nav ex with the CFI which he told me to log P1-S,
I also hope to fly solo next Friday which may be before my new licence come through the post.
Question-Can I enter these hours in my log under the new licence,ie,does all my flying after the test and log was signed off count towards my real PPL flying time?
Am I a real PPL pilot immediatley after the skills test or is it on receipt of licence?
I hope all this makes sense.
Lister
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I passed my skills test on May 19th
I'm in the same situation as you at the moment. Here's what I was told.
I flew with my CFI a few days after my skills test and was told to log the flight as P1 (S). Until my licence arrives, I cannot fly with passengers.
I can fly solo anytime an instructor is present at my club (as technically I'm still flying under my instructors' licence
), again, until the licence arrives - and claim that solo time as P1.Although, instructors at my club have been wrong before!
Hope that helps,
AV8
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Lister,
Congratulations on passing.
I think the official story will be that until the CAA issue your licence you do not have it and are not a real pilot. This means that if its been posted to you then you can be a real pilot even if you have not received it.
I have heard of a couple of cases where people wanted to get their licence on their birthday and the CAA obliged by putting it in the post on their birthday. I quick phone call confirmed it was issued and they could exercise the privileges.
I think the reason they do it this way is because they may find something wrong in the paperwork which in theory could mean they cannot give you a licence.
You could always wait until you get your licence before filling in your logbook. Then if your licence is dated before the flight you can fill in the logbook accordingly.
Again congrats on passing
ZA
Congratulations on passing.
I think the official story will be that until the CAA issue your licence you do not have it and are not a real pilot. This means that if its been posted to you then you can be a real pilot even if you have not received it.
I have heard of a couple of cases where people wanted to get their licence on their birthday and the CAA obliged by putting it in the post on their birthday. I quick phone call confirmed it was issued and they could exercise the privileges.
I think the reason they do it this way is because they may find something wrong in the paperwork which in theory could mean they cannot give you a licence.
You could always wait until you get your licence before filling in your logbook. Then if your licence is dated before the flight you can fill in the logbook accordingly.
Again congrats on passing
ZA
Last edited by Zulu Alpha; 27th May 2006 at 18:08.
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Originally Posted by Zulu Alpha
Lister,
This means that if its been posted to you then you can be a real pilot even if you have not received it.
This means that if its been posted to you then you can be a real pilot even if you have not received it.
To get back to the question, Solo log as P1 (but still needs to be "supervised" by an instructor) With an instructor log as P1S or Put if it is for anothr rating.
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I'm in the same boat, and although I passed a couple of weeks ago, only just sent the completed paperwork etc off. (long story)
I was told by my examiner, that I could fly accompanied by an instructor, or solo on their signoff, but not solo with passengers until I had received my licence and had completed a 28 day check (last bit I don;t get, but what the hell)
Anyway - weather hasn't been great and when it has I've been in work. If there is a nice day and a free aeroplane this weekend though, try and stop me
Cheers..
Phil..
I was told by my examiner, that I could fly accompanied by an instructor, or solo on their signoff, but not solo with passengers until I had received my licence and had completed a 28 day check (last bit I don;t get, but what the hell)
Anyway - weather hasn't been great and when it has I've been in work. If there is a nice day and a free aeroplane this weekend though, try and stop me
Cheers..
Phil..
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Flying solo after being briefed and being supervisde by an instructor - log P1.
If flying with an instructor log Dual.
P1/S in your case is only for successful flight tests (like the one you have just done). Well done.
The CAA will not count P1/S time that is no a successful flight test towards total P1 experience claimed for any rating or licence issue. It says so in LASORS.
Why did the CFI have to fly with you dual if you had completed the requirements for a PPL and passed the GST?
Until you have received, checked and signed the PPL it is not valid.
Regards,
DFC
If flying with an instructor log Dual.
P1/S in your case is only for successful flight tests (like the one you have just done). Well done.
The CAA will not count P1/S time that is no a successful flight test towards total P1 experience claimed for any rating or licence issue. It says so in LASORS.
Why did the CFI have to fly with you dual if you had completed the requirements for a PPL and passed the GST?
Until you have received, checked and signed the PPL it is not valid.
Regards,
DFC
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Lister
You cant fly P1 solo until the licence is issued and signed. You wont know it is issued, and wont be able to sign it, until it is in your hands.
Sadly therefore you have to wait.
Glad you enjoyed the DX trip formation practice.
You cant fly P1 solo until the licence is issued and signed. You wont know it is issued, and wont be able to sign it, until it is in your hands.
Sadly therefore you have to wait.
Glad you enjoyed the DX trip formation practice.
DFC is correct, your 'eyeball nav ex', whatever that is, should be logged as Pu/t. The fact that your CFI does not understand the requirements of LASORS and the ANO should give you cause for concern. You may not, in law, exercise the privileges of your newly acquired PPL until you have received and signed it.
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Funnily enough what you have applied for is a JAA licence. The best place to look for the answers is therefore in JAR-FCL 1.080(c) which starts off:-
LASORS, despite what people might think, is not authoritative and I do wish the publishers would either not add their own embellishments on top of what the regulations actually say or else clearly mark the embellishments so that you can see that they are not authoritative.
For example LASORS tags the wording "and is part of an approved syllabus of training." on to item (ii) above. That wording does not appear in the regulation.
In answer to your question, you aren't "The holder of a licence" until it has been issued.
Mike
(c) Logging of time
(1) Pilot-in-command flight time
(i) The holder of a licence may log as pilot-in-command time all of the flight time during which he is the pilot in-command.
(ii) The applicant for or the holder of a pilot licence may log as pilot-in-command time all solo flight time and flight time as student pilot-incommand provided that such SPIC time is countersigned by the instructor.
(1) Pilot-in-command flight time
(i) The holder of a licence may log as pilot-in-command time all of the flight time during which he is the pilot in-command.
(ii) The applicant for or the holder of a pilot licence may log as pilot-in-command time all solo flight time and flight time as student pilot-incommand provided that such SPIC time is countersigned by the instructor.
For example LASORS tags the wording "and is part of an approved syllabus of training." on to item (ii) above. That wording does not appear in the regulation.
In answer to your question, you aren't "The holder of a licence" until it has been issued.
Mike
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Why did the CFI have to fly with you dual if you had completed the requirements for a PPL and passed the GST?
He set me a quite amusing task.
Leave Old Buck,find a site of military historic significance in the Waveney Valley,I said it must be Flixton Aviation museum, he said "OK, if you want it to be,then count all the aircraft on the ground!"
Next I was to find Reedham ferry,see which way it was travelling and count the people on board(he was tongue in cheek for the last bit),then find Acle and see if bridge was open or closed.
Right I said,"I'll be 10 mins putting a few lines on the chart."
"No you won't, you are going to eyeball all this,and I'm coming with you to check you do it all"
We had a great time,and I did it all,weather was bad and we were skirting cloud etc ,he couldn't have let me fly VFR anyway.
It was very good experience,and I reckon my CFI knows what he is doing as last year he logged 50 years of professional flying.
From Lightnings to Cherokees!
Lister
He set me a quite amusing task.
Leave Old Buck,find a site of military historic significance in the Waveney Valley,I said it must be Flixton Aviation museum, he said "OK, if you want it to be,then count all the aircraft on the ground!"
Next I was to find Reedham ferry,see which way it was travelling and count the people on board(he was tongue in cheek for the last bit),then find Acle and see if bridge was open or closed.
Right I said,"I'll be 10 mins putting a few lines on the chart."
"No you won't, you are going to eyeball all this,and I'm coming with you to check you do it all"
We had a great time,and I did it all,weather was bad and we were skirting cloud etc ,he couldn't have let me fly VFR anyway.
It was very good experience,and I reckon my CFI knows what he is doing as last year he logged 50 years of professional flying.
From Lightnings to Cherokees!
Lister
