Weekend in the Isle of Man
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Weekend in the Isle of Man
Hi all
This weekend I intend (weather permitting) to fly from Rochester to the IOM for the weekend.
I am a low hours PPL with night but no IMC flying a very well equiped turbo Arrow.
I would appreciate any advice on routing/local proceedures from any regulars to the IOM. (I already know about special branch/customs requirements and will be filing a flight plan I am just looking for any "wrinkles" that would be useful to know while I am flight planning).
Many thanks
Nigel
This weekend I intend (weather permitting) to fly from Rochester to the IOM for the weekend.
I am a low hours PPL with night but no IMC flying a very well equiped turbo Arrow.
I would appreciate any advice on routing/local proceedures from any regulars to the IOM. (I already know about special branch/customs requirements and will be filing a flight plan I am just looking for any "wrinkles" that would be useful to know while I am flight planning).
Many thanks
Nigel
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The trip to the IOM from EGTO is very straightforward. EGTO - BPK - DTY - LIC - EGNR - DCT. Need to talk nicely to Luton for the BPK/DTY leg. Don't forget you need to arrange handling, I suggest Manx Aero Club is favourite and they may still have a car that they will rent to you for a small fee.
Over the years, I have found an IMC rating to be very useful to escape from the Island which seems to have its own weather system. I now use BA in the winter as its cheaper and more reliable!
Over the years, I have found an IMC rating to be very useful to escape from the Island which seems to have its own weather system. I now use BA in the winter as its cheaper and more reliable!
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Watch out for the landing/handling fees. It's not the cheapest place in the world to land.
A recent overnight trip cost us about £45. We effectively handled ourselves too, despite having to pay the club handling fee.
I could recommend the Sefton hotel in Douglas. Their Atrium rooms are lovely. As we hadn't prebooked, just turned up on their doorstep, we managed to get an atrium room for £90 B&B. Excellent value for a beautiful hotel. They have free wifi in the rooms too, and if you've no pc with you, you they have a "library room" with a pc set up. Very handy for weather, flight plans & notams for the return trip.
dp
A recent overnight trip cost us about £45. We effectively handled ourselves too, despite having to pay the club handling fee.
I could recommend the Sefton hotel in Douglas. Their Atrium rooms are lovely. As we hadn't prebooked, just turned up on their doorstep, we managed to get an atrium room for £90 B&B. Excellent value for a beautiful hotel. They have free wifi in the rooms too, and if you've no pc with you, you they have a "library room" with a pc set up. Very handy for weather, flight plans & notams for the return trip.
dp
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Agree with the landing fees Dublinpilot, flew in for the TT races and parked at Manx aero club. Hired the clubs car for a couple of days or so, about fifty quid...very reasonable. The folks at Manx aero club got the wx for us when leaving from their own computer and were generally very helpful and friendly... a nice club with nice members!!. When leaving we crossed for fuel, and were promptly hit for another bloody landing fee.
It does have it's own weather system, up on the higher ground was very misty. The special branch notification we did by fax...no problems at all.
Crossed from point of Ayr on the way out after fuelling at Hawarden, and on the return trip came all the way to EGBE after getting full tanks at Ronaldsway.
We also stayed at the Sefton...they do lovely kippers for breakfast
Have a good trip.
CM
It does have it's own weather system, up on the higher ground was very misty. The special branch notification we did by fax...no problems at all.
Crossed from point of Ayr on the way out after fuelling at Hawarden, and on the return trip came all the way to EGBE after getting full tanks at Ronaldsway.
We also stayed at the Sefton...they do lovely kippers for breakfast
Have a good trip.
CM
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I hope you have a great weekend!
With no instrument flying expertise you'd be better off in a poorly equipped Arrow. One poor bloke (and his wife) tragically died in the Irish Sea last year in a "well-equipped PA-28". He was a low-hour PPL without an IMC. Don't 'think' you can pull it off - stay clear of cloud and don't be tempted to push on! Keep safe.
I am a low hours PPL with night but no IMC flying a very well equiped turbo Arrow.
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Mixed up
With no instrument flying expertise you'd be better off in a poorly equipped Arrow.
DW.
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Mixed up,
I appreciate that your comments were well intended.
Or perhaps you know more about Nigelisom, than we do? I don't know.
But I don't see anything in his original post to suggest that he was going to try to "pull off" something. In fact he says quite clearly that his trip is Weather Dependent.
There is nothing wrong with a PPL "VFR Only" doing a trip to the Isle of Man. I am VFR only have have do a number of such trips. It's certainly posible to do safely, or as safe as over water flying can be.
The trick to VFR touring, is to make sure you have nothing at all planned for the day after your return (well no meetings etc), and nothing that can't be pushed back for the rest of the week. Important meetings, or approaching deadlines and VFR touring don't really go well together, in my experience. Once you do this, most of the pressure if taken away from you, and an extra day or two at your destination isn't too much of a problem.
dp
I appreciate that your comments were well intended.
Or perhaps you know more about Nigelisom, than we do? I don't know.
But I don't see anything in his original post to suggest that he was going to try to "pull off" something. In fact he says quite clearly that his trip is Weather Dependent.
There is nothing wrong with a PPL "VFR Only" doing a trip to the Isle of Man. I am VFR only have have do a number of such trips. It's certainly posible to do safely, or as safe as over water flying can be.
The trick to VFR touring, is to make sure you have nothing at all planned for the day after your return (well no meetings etc), and nothing that can't be pushed back for the rest of the week. Important meetings, or approaching deadlines and VFR touring don't really go well together, in my experience. Once you do this, most of the pressure if taken away from you, and an extra day or two at your destination isn't too much of a problem.
dp
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Nigelisom,
I've not been to IOM myself, but am based at Cranfield, and have done the route Jodelman suggests when I went to meet my parents at Hawarden.
Firstly, Luton are normally very helpfull, I've only once not managed to get a clearance, although I have had to wait a few minutes occassionally. Be confident and professional on the RT (make sure you already know what you want to say) and try and familiarise yourself with the area, they'll then probably ask you to cross the threshold of the runway in use, not above 1,500 feet. It's no big deal, and as soon as your past they'll expect you to QSY en route - Cranfield is probably your best bet then.
Keep your beacon tracking good on the DTY - LIC sector, as it's easy to bust Birmingham if you're above 2,000 feet!
Approaching EGNR again keep an eye on your altitude for the Manchester & Liverpool zones. Once pst EGNR, enjoy - it's beautiful scenery!
One thing, I have no clue about endurance for an Arrow, but Avgas availaibility at EGNR can be very patchy, and the landing fee will make your eyes water!
Hope you have a great trip - and don't forget your lifejackets!
DW
I've not been to IOM myself, but am based at Cranfield, and have done the route Jodelman suggests when I went to meet my parents at Hawarden.
Firstly, Luton are normally very helpfull, I've only once not managed to get a clearance, although I have had to wait a few minutes occassionally. Be confident and professional on the RT (make sure you already know what you want to say) and try and familiarise yourself with the area, they'll then probably ask you to cross the threshold of the runway in use, not above 1,500 feet. It's no big deal, and as soon as your past they'll expect you to QSY en route - Cranfield is probably your best bet then.
Keep your beacon tracking good on the DTY - LIC sector, as it's easy to bust Birmingham if you're above 2,000 feet!
Approaching EGNR again keep an eye on your altitude for the Manchester & Liverpool zones. Once pst EGNR, enjoy - it's beautiful scenery!
One thing, I have no clue about endurance for an Arrow, but Avgas availaibility at EGNR can be very patchy, and the landing fee will make your eyes water!
Hope you have a great trip - and don't forget your lifejackets!
DW
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I live on the Isle of Man and fly regularly. Your landing fee will be about £15 if you use manxe Aero Flyers.
As for the weather, it usualy sucks! If the cloud is low or the south of the Island is fogged in then reroute to the north of the island staying out of controled airspace and you should be able to put down at Andreas which is a disused RAF base. the RWY is pretty poor so once you get down keep the speed low and the yoke back.
I probably use Andreas more than Ronaldsway:
1) It's free
2) It is not busy (hardly ever used)
3) 90% if Ronaldsway has low cloud or fog, Andreas does not
As for size you will have no problems getting an Arrow. I usualy fly an Archer or Cherokee 6 in and out of there. My mate takes twins in and out.
I might be able to arrange fuel at Andreas for you.
PM me if you want details about Ronaldsway or Andreas.
As for the weather, it usualy sucks! If the cloud is low or the south of the Island is fogged in then reroute to the north of the island staying out of controled airspace and you should be able to put down at Andreas which is a disused RAF base. the RWY is pretty poor so once you get down keep the speed low and the yoke back.
I probably use Andreas more than Ronaldsway:
1) It's free
2) It is not busy (hardly ever used)
3) 90% if Ronaldsway has low cloud or fog, Andreas does not
As for size you will have no problems getting an Arrow. I usualy fly an Archer or Cherokee 6 in and out of there. My mate takes twins in and out.
I might be able to arrange fuel at Andreas for you.
PM me if you want details about Ronaldsway or Andreas.
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Went there last weekend, handling with Manx Flyers. Photos here if interested: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andyhar...7594121868219/
We had pretty grey weather on the way back, i.e. ~1000' cloud-base and although vis was ostensibly, with a grey sky meeting a grey Irish sea, there was little distinct horizon. On this sort of day you can be legally VFR but without an horizon you would be better of with IMC skills. So as you coast out I would recommend you ask yourself the question "am I OK with this" before you get more than ~5 miles offshore and can sstill see back to where you came OK. (Apologies if this is in any way insulting, and for all I know you may have plenty of experience...)
On the day we were there, Manx Flyers were a bit busy: there had been a recent change of staff and they were "swamped" with ~6 a/c due to a fly-out from Blackpool, so we had to wait ~15 mins to get forms filed and then for fuel, but no big problem. The grub in the cafe was good (good sandwiches / baguettes - and even Redbush herbal tea! Didn't try anything else).
No way! We used Manx and it cost us around £45...!
Here is a pic of the approach to RWY 08:
Hope this helps!
Andy
We had pretty grey weather on the way back, i.e. ~1000' cloud-base and although vis was ostensibly, with a grey sky meeting a grey Irish sea, there was little distinct horizon. On this sort of day you can be legally VFR but without an horizon you would be better of with IMC skills. So as you coast out I would recommend you ask yourself the question "am I OK with this" before you get more than ~5 miles offshore and can sstill see back to where you came OK. (Apologies if this is in any way insulting, and for all I know you may have plenty of experience...)
On the day we were there, Manx Flyers were a bit busy: there had been a recent change of staff and they were "swamped" with ~6 a/c due to a fly-out from Blackpool, so we had to wait ~15 mins to get forms filed and then for fuel, but no big problem. The grub in the cafe was good (good sandwiches / baguettes - and even Redbush herbal tea! Didn't try anything else).
Your landing fee will be about £15 if you use manxe Aero Flyers
Here is a pic of the approach to RWY 08:
Hope this helps!
Andy
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Originally Posted by gcolyer
I live on the Isle of Man and fly regularly. Your landing fee will be about £15 if you use manxe Aero Flyers.
Originally Posted by Aussie Andy
No way! We used Manx and it cost us around £45...!
Andy
Andy
It was about £45 for us too, about 3 weeks ago, with 1 nights parking.
Maybe it's one price for locals, and one for foreigners?
Originally Posted by gcolyer
PM me if you want details about Ronaldsway or Andreas.
gcolyer,
I'd be interested in hearing more about Andreas. Where can I find out about it. Didn't see it mentioned in Pooleys or the AIP, and it's marked on the CAA Chart as a microlight site. I really enjoyed the Isle of Man. I thought it was a lovely place, and really friendly, and I fully intended to return.......until I get the bill! I was told, and was expecting a bill of £20.
For the 45 minute flight from Dublin the £45 landing fee almost represents the cost of the flight in one direction!
I wasn't aware of Andreas, and would be interested in finding out more!
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Thanks for the replys
I have no intention of pushing the imc window, if the weather is crap we don't go, if it turns crap en-route we divert and if it turns crap while we are there we stay over until it gets better!
I have done the route up over EGNR and then round to Caernarfon before and have had no problems getting zone clearances from Luton in the past.
Manx aero flyers will be getting a call and thanks for the tip on Andreas, I seem to remember from my TT days that there used to be an airfield at Jurby is that still true or is that Andreas?
Range on the Arrow is no problem (the trip + more than 3 hours reserves).
Does anyone have any comments on the W2 route from north of Manchester?
Thanks again for all the replies and thanks for your concerns for our wellbeeing I can assure you all I am very careful and will not be pushing my luck so lets hope the weather holds.
Nigel
I have no intention of pushing the imc window, if the weather is crap we don't go, if it turns crap en-route we divert and if it turns crap while we are there we stay over until it gets better!
I have done the route up over EGNR and then round to Caernarfon before and have had no problems getting zone clearances from Luton in the past.
Manx aero flyers will be getting a call and thanks for the tip on Andreas, I seem to remember from my TT days that there used to be an airfield at Jurby is that still true or is that Andreas?
Range on the Arrow is no problem (the trip + more than 3 hours reserves).
Does anyone have any comments on the W2 route from north of Manchester?
Thanks again for all the replies and thanks for your concerns for our wellbeeing I can assure you all I am very careful and will not be pushing my luck so lets hope the weather holds.
Nigel
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Hi DP,
I think we were ripped off as we didn't park overnight!!! I am going to query the bill, thanks!!
Andy
It was about £45 for us too, about 3 weeks ago, with 1 nights parking.
Andy
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I just spoke to the (new) bloke at Manx Flyers who has clarified what we should have been charged:
Landing fee: £15.45 + VAT = £15.15
Compulsory Handling fee: £20 + VAT = £23.50
--------
TOTAL: £41.65
Parking overnight would be extra on top apparently...
Andy
Landing fee: £15.45 + VAT = £15.15
Compulsory Handling fee: £20 + VAT = £23.50
--------
TOTAL: £41.65
Parking overnight would be extra on top apparently...
Andy
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I guess the handling fee is the spanner in your works. As i am a club member i guess i don't pay them 
Andreas is not licensed, there is no tower or staff, you wont find it the AIP or flight guides. It is marked on the chart as a microlight site. I have never seen a microlight there, but i have seen a glider there.
The RWY's are
24 - 06
29 - 11 (stay to the North of this runway when on the ground or you will chuck stones everywhere)
Turbulence and windshear can be pretty grim if there is a sourtherly (ish) wind. If so slow it up a bit and you should be OK.
Dont confuse it for Jurby or you might find yourself in trouble! Jurby is on the North West of the island, Andreas is further east.
Andreas is not licensed, there is no tower or staff, you wont find it the AIP or flight guides. It is marked on the chart as a microlight site. I have never seen a microlight there, but i have seen a glider there.
The RWY's are
24 - 06
29 - 11 (stay to the North of this runway when on the ground or you will chuck stones everywhere)
Turbulence and windshear can be pretty grim if there is a sourtherly (ish) wind. If so slow it up a bit and you should be OK.
Dont confuse it for Jurby or you might find yourself in trouble! Jurby is on the North West of the island, Andreas is further east.
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You may well do. I am not 100% sure. The aircraft i use belong to a friend of the land owner so i have never had to cross that bridge. i know other people use the airfield as well. I can try to find out.