Ditching, what may happen?

[funfly]

I have a glass aircraft looks a bit like a Cirrus. MAUW 2240;bs. Lycoming IO360 on the front, fuel in the wings, fixed undercarriage, gullwing doors. (It's a KIS Cruiser if you know what that is).
In order that I can formulate the best emergency procedures in the event of a ditching as there any research available on the most likely scenario if I emergency land in the sea - assuming I make a reasonable slow landing and don't stall it in.
Stay upright and float flat?
Instantly flip over forwards due to drag of undercarriage?
Go nose down due to the weight of engine?
Flip right over on it's back so that doors are underneath?
Generally float?
Go straight down?

[IO540]

There is very little data on ditchings from the UK but from elsewhere it would appear that the aircraft is likely to immediately assume something like a 45 degree nose-down angle (due to engine weight) and sink within minutes at most. That's assuming a good landing and an intact front window.

I always carry a raft. Around the UK, life jackets are good for locating the corpses

Fixed gear is likely to be a big disadvantage but much is going to depend on your stall speed.

But as I say, not a lot of data around, and a fair % of ditchings appear to have been botched.

[crap pilot]

With a fixed under carriage i would be looking to stall the aircraft a few feet above the water. I think that you would be very lucky not to flip the aircraft on its back if you fly it in and if that happens your chances of getting out are reduced. If possible i would try to get the tail end into the water first as this will slow the aircraft down very quickly.

[Islander2]

Quite a lot of useful data and informed opinion available from the USA (although naturally, not much of this for composite airframes). Try these for starters:

www.equipped.com/ditching.htm
www.equipped.com/aopa-ditch-rebut.htm
www.equipped.com/ditchingmyths.htm
www.equipped.com/bschiff-ditching.htm
www.equipped.com/ditch.htm
www.avweb.com/news/safety/182976-1.html

[markflyer6580]

Ditching, what may happen?

You may get wet (or drown possibly)

[Droopystop]

I think that you have to assume that you are going to want to get out ASAP in the event of a ditching, regardless of how the aircraft might float (if at all). What the aircraft might do in calm water will almost certainly be very different to what it will do if there is any wave action. In other words, your escape plan has to assume all of the scenarios you have put across. But most importantly, you have to make sure that you are in a fit state to put that plan into action, ie not injured in the impact.

['India-Mike]

Hmmm...who knows what'll happen, unless the manufacturer has conducted ditching trials.

Having almost had to ditch 6 weeks ago (made the beach), I've had my mind re-focussed. The flight ref. cards for the aeroplanes I fly/flew (Chipmunk & Bulldog) state:

'Ditching: abandon rather than ditch'

For the 'dog, no height given; for the Chippy, if above 1500' then abandon. Rather says it all, if the military would rather have you jump than ditch. I normally wear a parachute for over-water Chippy flights - but didn't on the day the cranshaft broke!

CAA safety sense leaflet 21 is pretty good, although it does say don't stall in - the Chippy FRC's say stall it in!

So I'd assume the worst - the bl**dy thing will head for the bottom as fast as it can. Yet leaflet 21 states that 88% of controlled ditchings are carried out with few injuries! But then I'm a 'glass half empty' sort....

[jabberwok]

Saw a Cessna ditch some while back. After the splash subsided (maybe a second or two) the aircraft was already vertical with just the fin sticking out of the water. It was gone in less than 10 seconds.

The crew survived the impact but it was the next few seconds that determined their survival. The windscreen had caved in on impact (most do) and both described the sudden shock to their system as they were plunged into very cold water in an unusual attitude. Both had trouble releasing their harnesses because on impact the belts had twisted round with the buckle lying against their stomachs. Both believed the aircraft was going down far faster than it actually did - possibly because of the vertical attitude - and that almost triggered panic.

Luckily both kept calm, released the harnesses and one got his door open and kicked out. The other door was jammed so No2 used this to kick against and followed his mate out of the open door.

Despite talking about ditching in the past and working out what to do should it happen, both said that it was the things they hadn't anticipated that nearly did them in. The rapid immersion into very cold water immediately on landing, the unusual aircraft attitude and the twisted belts all resulted in confusion and disorientation. Both kept their heads but both still thought they were lucky to survive.

[OCTA]

Hello,
A subject clost to my heart at the moment as I do alot of overwater flights (at night to make it better) A few weeks ago my partner was in this very situation although it was in a float plane that flipped on landing. The windscreen broke and the cabin filled with water extremly fast. All where unhurt luckly apart from minor cuts. They ended up getting out through the passenger side window as they couldn't get the pilots side door open. The aircraft floated for a little while but that was mainly due to the floats (they still work even if they are upside down)
So my theory is have a plan and expect to be underwater before you even know it and make sure your seat belt is really tight because water may look soft but it still hurts!
octa

[Tarq57]

Spoken to two people who've had to do this. One in a Cherokee140, smooth sea, ran a tank dry, flared so the stall warning went as the gear touched the water. No probs. Got out, aircraft sank in about two minutes.
The other had, (I think) a crankshaft failure in a 206 just after takeoff from an island. Very rough sea. Landed into wind (about 40kt) across the swell. Impact didn't break the windscreen, but it did dislodge a can of paint from the cargo bay which hit him hard on the head. He couldn't get the door open because of water pressure - the aircraft was quite nose-down - so dived into the back, opened the clamshell doors, swam like hell for a few seconds, turned around just in time to see it sink. Possibly if he'd had enough time to lower the flaps, he wouldn't have been able to open the rear doors.
From memory the recommendation is to not stall just above the surface, but to fly it on just above stall speed with the nose not too high. If the tail hits hard first, the abrupt pitch down will make the impact worse. Land along the swells, trying to put it down on the back of one of them (yeah, right! good luck!) unless the wind is strong...30kt or thereabouts I think, then land into wind.

[Jetscream 32]

mmmm surprised!! no one has mentioned getting rid of the doors first or at least getting them open if not detached - UK Navy Dunker crew taught us to stall/incipient spin as close as we dare to the water - ie wing tip scrap the water surface at very high aob - if small swell - as if you hit tail first it would slam the engine in and sink in half the time - only a nearly ditch for me in a chipmunk with a glider on the back @ 300 on climb out over the sea - turned back!! - yes i know - but as said earlier in thread - bale out @ 300 not really an option.

[Lister Noble]

Door locks

I know I'm only a mere student, but we are taught to release the top door lock on the PA28 if we are force landing, as the airframe can twist and jam the door.
I assume this would apply to most aircraft?
Lister

[AfricanEagle]

Opening doors before ditching is high on my over water check list.

With the C172 the plan is to open the doors and put on the lock back on so they can't close again.

Just hope I never have to try it.

AE

[SkyHawk-N]

Originally Posted by AfricanEagle

With the C172 the plan is to open the doors and put on the lock back on so they can't close again.

I was taught the following...

1 - Take shoe off
2 - Open door and wedge open using shoe
3 - Ditch
4 - Exit and swim off into the sunset.

I'm sure if it ever happens to me I'll only remember to do no.3

[mcgoo]

why all this talk of jamming doors open, the original poster has a glass aircraft which surely would shatter on impact leaving him nicely bobbing along on the surface!

[IO540]

After I had a failure of one of the two PA28 door locks, I would never fly a single door aircraft over water.

This will get some people going

[funfly]

Originally Posted by mcgoo

why all this talk of jamming doors open, the original poster has a glass aircraft which surely would shatter on impact leaving him nicely bobbing along on the surface!

Fibreglass with carbon interlay - will take a lot to destroy that.
From the replies on this forum I have produced the following checklist:

DITCHING

At 6,000’ you have up to 10 minutes flying time, 15 nm downwind 10 nm upwind

CHECK LIST

Mayday call – position reference on GPS
Look for ships, nearest land
Best glide 80 kts.
Engine restart procedures
Remove sharp objects
Check for unsecured objects behind you
Put life-raft in ready position
Tighten seat belt
Secure immersion suit – feet, head, gloves
Start emergency locator beacon
Passenger open door as you get lower - hold closed, don’t let go!
Do not use flaps
Land along the swell
Keep nose high
Touch down as slow as possible without stalling

BE PREPARED

Aircraft may go nose in. windscreen may shatter, cold water will come in - it will bob back to the surface - at least for a while
The cold water will cause SHOCK

Prepare to do three things only and keep these in your mind:
1. Undo seat belt
2. get yourself out
3. Inflate your life jacket – pull chord hard

If aircraft remains upright after ditching:
1. Throw out life-raft, hold on to the inflation cord - it will sink if not inflated, it will float away if not held!
2. Get yourself out
3. Inflate your life jacket – pull chord hard

[Fuji Abound]

Whilst life rafts have been mentioned, and in addition to all the other good points, I think the importance of the life raft needs to be emphasised.

People often believe if you get out the aircraft with life jackets on - job done. In fact the vast majority of people will die from hypothermia. If you are in any doubt you should look at the trials on our ability to survive in water at the typical temperatures around our coast. In reality your only real chance without a life raft is if you happen to be lucky for rescue to come very very quickly

Life raft drill is therefore very important. It is surprising how often the life raft is simply placed on the back seat. Consider whether in the "panic" of a forced landing you will be able to get to the life raft in the few minutes available. Consider also whether the life raft will float away as soon as it is inflated, leaving you stranded. Also consider how the rescue services will find you. An EPIRB is cheap and gives them a significantly better chance.

Finally I cant remember whether anyone has mentioned landing near a ship if possible - again it goes back to minimising the time before rescue.

If you can a dry suite is also a very good idea.

[Droopystop]

Here we go again.

Liferaft would be great providing the following points are addressed:

The liferaft is adequately secured so it would become an unguided missile on impact.
The liferaft can be quickly and easily removed from outside (as well as from inside) the aircraft.
Everyone on board is familiar with its use and at least one has done a dinghy drill.
It has been well maintained and regularly serviced.
It can be inflated and boarded before it sinks/blows away.

I underestimated the ease of use of a life raft until I did a dinghy drill. They are not easy to use in a swimming pool, let alone in a seaway. Sudden immersion cold water is very debilitating and can seriously inhibit ones ability to scramble into a liferaft. IMHO, I would put a survival suit and life jacket as must haves. The lifejacket must be fitted with a spray hood, EPRIB and day night flare. Some form of "Spare Air" would come higher up my list than a life raft.

Of course, the cost of all this kit has to be offset against the risk and that point is for the individual to decide.

Fuji, keeping your "suite" (sic) dry is one thing, getting it into an aircraft is quite another

[dublinpilot]

Some form of "Spare Air" would come higher up my list than a life raft.

What portable options are available for this?

dp