A female, PPL training in Florida, HELP.
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A female, PPL training in Florida, HELP.
A friend of mine is considering going to Florida this summer to try and gain her PPL in an intensive course.
1, Does she need a visa and if so, how do she get one.
2, Can anyone recommend a good suitable flying school with first hand experience.
She is planning doing all her exams before she goes.
Is the anything else she needs to be aware of.
Advise would be very much appreciated.
1, Does she need a visa and if so, how do she get one.
2, Can anyone recommend a good suitable flying school with first hand experience.
She is planning doing all her exams before she goes.
Is the anything else she needs to be aware of.
Advise would be very much appreciated.
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She needs a Visa which can only be obtained though a flight school which is approved by the immigration authorities.
Therefore step one is to choose a flight school. Which one to choose? Well do a search on this site and see what comes up. Alternatively go to Smiths and get Pilot magazine which has a load of adverts and this month also has a "where to fly" guide.
Your friend will also have to go through the TSA security vetting process including having her fingerprints taken. This is not cheap.
However a flight school will give you all the information you need.
If any school tells you either that you dont need a visa and or need to go through the TSA process then they are lying to you. If they will lie on that assume everything else they say is a lie too.
Therefore step one is to choose a flight school. Which one to choose? Well do a search on this site and see what comes up. Alternatively go to Smiths and get Pilot magazine which has a load of adverts and this month also has a "where to fly" guide.
Your friend will also have to go through the TSA security vetting process including having her fingerprints taken. This is not cheap.
However a flight school will give you all the information you need.
If any school tells you either that you dont need a visa and or need to go through the TSA process then they are lying to you. If they will lie on that assume everything else they say is a lie too.
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There are some plus points for doing flight training in Florida but some/many minus points as well.
Obviously the cost can be a lot less but make sure there is enough capacity, both instructors and aircraft, to get the hours required. One word of warning, doing intensive flight training is very tiring and may not be as productive as doing training over a much longer period. Your friend should have a backup plan just in case she does not achieve the PPL in the time she has allowed.
The weather over there is what most people go for. In my experience the weather CAN be as unpredictable as over in the UK. Very low cloud and thunderstorms can last all day and strong winds and turbulance can pick up very quickly. It isn't always as it looks in the brochures, a lot depends on the time of the year (avoid the hurricane season!).
Navigation, RT and procedures are the big down sides. As you have probably heard they are a lot different in the USA, not neccessary better or worse, just different. After returning to the UK there is a lot more adapting to be done, something which a pilot with a freshly earnt PPL could do without.
What about taking her Practical RT exam? I have heard that many schools don't have the facility for these to be taken in the USA.
The quality of schools can vary widely, try and pick one using recommendations.
Getting a visa is not as straight forward as you may think. The school will provide the sponsor form, they may charge for courier delivery though. The application forms can be dowloaded off the internet, and are also available at the Embassy. Make sure the pictures taken are the right size (they are a different size to UK/European passpord pictures!) and have the right color background - very important! Make sure the paperwork is 100% correct, take time filling out the forms. Be prepared for a long queue and wait at the US Embassy.
I could go on but I'm sure others will add their views ....
Skyhawk-N.
Obviously the cost can be a lot less but make sure there is enough capacity, both instructors and aircraft, to get the hours required. One word of warning, doing intensive flight training is very tiring and may not be as productive as doing training over a much longer period. Your friend should have a backup plan just in case she does not achieve the PPL in the time she has allowed.
The weather over there is what most people go for. In my experience the weather CAN be as unpredictable as over in the UK. Very low cloud and thunderstorms can last all day and strong winds and turbulance can pick up very quickly. It isn't always as it looks in the brochures, a lot depends on the time of the year (avoid the hurricane season!).
Navigation, RT and procedures are the big down sides. As you have probably heard they are a lot different in the USA, not neccessary better or worse, just different. After returning to the UK there is a lot more adapting to be done, something which a pilot with a freshly earnt PPL could do without.
What about taking her Practical RT exam? I have heard that many schools don't have the facility for these to be taken in the USA.
The quality of schools can vary widely, try and pick one using recommendations.
Getting a visa is not as straight forward as you may think. The school will provide the sponsor form, they may charge for courier delivery though. The application forms can be dowloaded off the internet, and are also available at the Embassy. Make sure the pictures taken are the right size (they are a different size to UK/European passpord pictures!) and have the right color background - very important! Make sure the paperwork is 100% correct, take time filling out the forms. Be prepared for a long queue and wait at the US Embassy.
I could go on but I'm sure others will add their views ....
Skyhawk-N.
Last edited by SkyHawk-N; 28th Mar 2006 at 11:52.
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Well she could listen to a lot of uninformed tosh here or she could do the following: (any reference to them gets binned.)
Doing her exams before she goes is not always necessary (I didn't) and it will bump up the costs, however, it will also make her time in Florida much less stressfull.
Re flying in the UK afterwards - it should take around 2-4 hours to get checked out on a UK club afterwards. Beware any club/instructor who tells her different, that will be due to a combination of their ignorance and greed.
Doing her exams before she goes is not always necessary (I didn't) and it will bump up the costs, however, it will also make her time in Florida much less stressfull.
Re flying in the UK afterwards - it should take around 2-4 hours to get checked out on a UK club afterwards. Beware any club/instructor who tells her different, that will be due to a combination of their ignorance and greed.
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Originally Posted by strafer
Well she could listen to a lot of uninformed tosh here or she could do the following
I have done more flying in the US than I have in the UK, including many hours training. BTW, just for information I am not involved in the flight training industry and never have been.
I think that the more views people get the better, I'm sure others have had a wonderful experience learning in the USA. I enjoyed much of my time flying over there and would never recommend someone NOT to go over to Florida.
Why not post your more detailed views here so everyone can read them and hopefully learn from them.
Originally Posted by strafer
Doing her exams before she goes is not always necessary (I didn't) and it will bump up the costs, however, it will also make her time in Florida much less stressfull.
Agreed!
Last edited by SkyHawk-N; 28th Mar 2006 at 09:42.
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Without a shadow of doubt: do the exams, and the medical, before going out there.
This is whether you do the FAA PPL or a JAA PPL - the volume of the study material of the two is broadly similar.
This is whether you do the FAA PPL or a JAA PPL - the volume of the study material of the two is broadly similar.
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Chill Skyhawk - The 'uninformed tosh' remark was not aimed at you! However, by this time tomorrow, this thread will be full of it. 
There are many on this board who, because they will never admit that spending twice as much and 20 times as long on getting their license to learn was a bit silly, therefore see the need to denigrate all US gained JAA-PPLs. I shall name no names, they will make themselves plain fairly soon.
Re my own 'detailed views' - I imagine a search for 'strafer' and 'florida' will show plenty, however, I'm more than happy to answer PMs regarding my time at OBA. (Or, if you've got a copy of 'Flyer' from Apr 2004 - you can read all about it there! ). Alternatively, there's a 50 page thread on Wannabees.
If you want one reason why you should do a intensive course abroad- then check out the current pink headsets thread by Mazzy something or other.
There are many on this board who, because they will never admit that spending twice as much and 20 times as long on getting their license to learn was a bit silly, therefore see the need to denigrate all US gained JAA-PPLs. I shall name no names, they will make themselves plain fairly soon.
Re my own 'detailed views' - I imagine a search for 'strafer' and 'florida' will show plenty, however, I'm more than happy to answer PMs regarding my time at OBA. (Or, if you've got a copy of 'Flyer' from Apr 2004 - you can read all about it there!
). Alternatively, there's a 50 page thread on Wannabees.If you want one reason why you should do a intensive course abroad- then check out the current pink headsets thread by Mazzy something or other.
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I trained in the US, once back in the UK after three months not flying, a combined conversion to C172 and learning UK R/T etc. took me about 4 hours. Remember this is still loggable & enjoyable flying time so not really wasted as such.
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Go to the US!
EGCC4284
I have just revalidated my British PPL in the UK after many years of being 'expired'. Despite being available to fly full time, despite having all the money required on tap and despite being based in the relatively much drier South of England, it has still taken me 20 months!
Admittedly, some of this was due to poor instructors: I walked out of two clubs last summer and had to start all over again each time. By far the worst obstacle, however, was UK weather. At least two thirds of my bookings were cancelled from that cause alone. In 2004, between July and December I booked a whole week's flying six times and cancelled it all, one day at a time; and that was in dry Central Southern England, Northern weather was much worse!
My advice would be to go to the US, where your friend will have an FAA PPL licence within six weeks. (It doesn't matter which country issues the PPL as long as it is an ICAO country, and the USA is an ICAO country). Then at least, she will have a valid licence 'in the bag'.
She should then be prepared to put in a further several hours at a British club on her return before being allowed to exercise the privileges of her licence. She will need this to learn to cope with UK weather and extra complex airspace and busy radio. It sounds convoluted, but will be very much quicker and cheaper in the long run.
Broomstick.
I have just revalidated my British PPL in the UK after many years of being 'expired'. Despite being available to fly full time, despite having all the money required on tap and despite being based in the relatively much drier South of England, it has still taken me 20 months!
Admittedly, some of this was due to poor instructors: I walked out of two clubs last summer and had to start all over again each time. By far the worst obstacle, however, was UK weather. At least two thirds of my bookings were cancelled from that cause alone. In 2004, between July and December I booked a whole week's flying six times and cancelled it all, one day at a time; and that was in dry Central Southern England, Northern weather was much worse!
My advice would be to go to the US, where your friend will have an FAA PPL licence within six weeks. (It doesn't matter which country issues the PPL as long as it is an ICAO country, and the USA is an ICAO country). Then at least, she will have a valid licence 'in the bag'.
She should then be prepared to put in a further several hours at a British club on her return before being allowed to exercise the privileges of her licence. She will need this to learn to cope with UK weather and extra complex airspace and busy radio. It sounds convoluted, but will be very much quicker and cheaper in the long run.
Broomstick.
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perceived problem
I may be wrong, however, unless you can afford to buy your own plane, I wonder how many airplane rental companies, would recognise,an American licence and flying time ? might be worth ringing a few, before deciding
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Originally Posted by tangovictor
I may be wrong, however, unless you can afford to buy your own plane, I wonder how many airplane rental companies, would recognise,an American licence and flying time ? might be worth ringing a few, before deciding
You can hire a G Reg and fly it on your FAA licence, there is currently another thread on Pprune discussing this and its previledges.
Learn to fly where you want to learn to fly!!! A checkout over here afterwards (which you will have to do anyway if you have not flown with a particular rental outfit before), will take 1-2 hours.
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EGCC4284,
I did an intensive course at the same school 'Strafer' attended - and it worked for me.
Couple of things to think about:
Is your friend the sort of person who can 'hack' an intensive course - it's not to everyone's liking?
How would she feel being (probably) the only female student on the course - will that add extra pressure?
Has she had a trail flying lesson in the UK?
If her mind is made up - then go for it!
I did an intensive course at the same school 'Strafer' attended - and it worked for me.
Couple of things to think about:
Is your friend the sort of person who can 'hack' an intensive course - it's not to everyone's liking?
How would she feel being (probably) the only female student on the course - will that add extra pressure?
Has she had a trail flying lesson in the UK?
If her mind is made up - then go for it!
The Original Whirly
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If you want one reason why you should do a intensive course abroad- then check out the current pink headsets thread by Mazzy something or other.
There are pros and cons of both ways of learning, and it depends on the person and what they want.
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I did my IR in the USA and met a number of people doing their PPLs out there. It's damn nice to be able to fly 360 days a year (this was Arizona), when in the UK it took me 1 year to do my PPL; at one time booking every day 7 days/week for 3 months and flying just 3 times. A PPL out there would be 1 month's stay; not a holiday but pleasant.
However, let me make a wider observation.
Flying isn't a dirt-cheap hobby - much as a lot of people are trying really really hard (admirably so) to hang in there on what I would call unrealistically small budgets. Flying just a few hours a year, not enough for any currency, and perhaps just enough for a little bit on very nice sunny days. Soon, most of them pack it in.
So, if the prime motivation of going to the USA is to save money, going to the USA is probably a strong indication of someone who won't be flying much (or at all) afterwards.
I know a number of 200-500 hour/year IR pilots who did their PPL/IR in the USA, never touching the UK training machine with a bargepole. For them it was a very good way to do it.
But I have met a lot more PPLs who did their PPL in the USA for a few k (it's rather more now; fuel isn't as cheap as it used to be) and most of them have long ago given up flying - they can't afford it.
Having said all that, the goal of getting a PPL and doing nothing more is a very common one. Many new PPLs never fly again - the motivation is gone. In that case, doing it in the USA is a very sound option.
However, let me make a wider observation.
Flying isn't a dirt-cheap hobby - much as a lot of people are trying really really hard (admirably so) to hang in there on what I would call unrealistically small budgets. Flying just a few hours a year, not enough for any currency, and perhaps just enough for a little bit on very nice sunny days. Soon, most of them pack it in.
So, if the prime motivation of going to the USA is to save money, going to the USA is probably a strong indication of someone who won't be flying much (or at all) afterwards.
I know a number of 200-500 hour/year IR pilots who did their PPL/IR in the USA, never touching the UK training machine with a bargepole. For them it was a very good way to do it.
But I have met a lot more PPLs who did their PPL in the USA for a few k (it's rather more now; fuel isn't as cheap as it used to be) and most of them have long ago given up flying - they can't afford it.
Having said all that, the goal of getting a PPL and doing nothing more is a very common one. Many new PPLs never fly again - the motivation is gone. In that case, doing it in the USA is a very sound option.
Having done various courses both sides of the Atlantic, I'd venture that there are many good schools and instructors either side.
BUT, if you are going to primarily fly in the UK, then you need to learn how to fly in the UK. Go and do your licence in the USA by all means, but budget for time spent here with an instructor as well.
There is then much to be said for this route, learning to fly in the UK takes a very long time - largely as has been said down to the weather. So, doing a PPL in Florida in about 4 weeks, then spending a few weekends flying from your local club, with a UK instructor, isn't a bad option.
Echoing what IO540 said however, budget also for at least a couple of thousand a year for the first few years after getting your PPL - you need to at-least start by doing a reasonable amount of flying to consolidate it all. This is true whether you learn in the UK, US, South Africa, or for that matter Mars.
G
BUT, if you are going to primarily fly in the UK, then you need to learn how to fly in the UK. Go and do your licence in the USA by all means, but budget for time spent here with an instructor as well.
There is then much to be said for this route, learning to fly in the UK takes a very long time - largely as has been said down to the weather. So, doing a PPL in Florida in about 4 weeks, then spending a few weekends flying from your local club, with a UK instructor, isn't a bad option.
Echoing what IO540 said however, budget also for at least a couple of thousand a year for the first few years after getting your PPL - you need to at-least start by doing a reasonable amount of flying to consolidate it all. This is true whether you learn in the UK, US, South Africa, or for that matter Mars.
G
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To follow on from what Genghis said...
If you're not going to be able to afford much flying after getting your PPL, then learn here - unless your aim is simply to get the PPL, then stop. Why? It'll give you a longer period of flying, hanging around flying clubs, being involved in aviation. In that time, you can find people to fly with after you've got your licence, find out about cheaper ways of flying, get information generally. You'll also hopefully build up sympathetic school and instructor contacts, which will be helpful if you're going to be needing lots of check flights after you've passed, or lots of advice anyway. And having learned over a longer period, your skills will degrade more slowly, ie you'll get rusty less quickly!
I should imagine that learning in 4 weeks, coming back to the UK and doing a few hours, then trying to fly with not much in the way of money, experience, or contacts over here, would be pure hell. No wonder so many people who try it give up!
If you're not going to be able to afford much flying after getting your PPL, then learn here - unless your aim is simply to get the PPL, then stop. Why? It'll give you a longer period of flying, hanging around flying clubs, being involved in aviation. In that time, you can find people to fly with after you've got your licence, find out about cheaper ways of flying, get information generally. You'll also hopefully build up sympathetic school and instructor contacts, which will be helpful if you're going to be needing lots of check flights after you've passed, or lots of advice anyway. And having learned over a longer period, your skills will degrade more slowly, ie you'll get rusty less quickly!
I should imagine that learning in 4 weeks, coming back to the UK and doing a few hours, then trying to fly with not much in the way of money, experience, or contacts over here, would be pure hell. No wonder so many people who try it give up!
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Expensive PPLs!
Spoke to a friend last night who has recently got a 1st time pass on his PPL at a very respected school in the Northern part of the country.
He took approx 12 months to complete his PPL and logged 91 hours in achieving it. The hours apparently due to having to revisit certain lessons after long breaks due to weather and also the fact that they flew to other airfields for cheaper landing fees! Whilst chatting I asked him if he had worked out how much his PPL had cost him. "Yes" came back the answer "£16,000".
From what I can make out he spent about £12k on flying and £4k landing fees. I nearly fell off my seat in the office when he told me as it has to be the most expensive PPL I have heard of.
Can anybody beat it???
Julian.
He took approx 12 months to complete his PPL and logged 91 hours in achieving it. The hours apparently due to having to revisit certain lessons after long breaks due to weather and also the fact that they flew to other airfields for cheaper landing fees! Whilst chatting I asked him if he had worked out how much his PPL had cost him. "Yes" came back the answer "£16,000".
From what I can make out he spent about £12k on flying and £4k landing fees. I nearly fell off my seat in the office when he told me as it has to be the most expensive PPL I have heard of.
Can anybody beat it???
Julian.