A female, PPL training in Florida, HELP.
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Sayers,
Well EA beat me to it!
I am glad to see that you have actually flown in the US (be it minimal!) and I take my hat off to your unpaid instruction
, something I used to do as well but not in the avitation industry.
Your original comment was
My experience is that most American trained pilots take a considerable time converting to the UK. The time difference is probably about the same as if they had spent longer learning to fly and accepting the adverse weather.
then ...
I never mentioned thirty hours, but I do consider that a US trained pilot will need 30 hours extra to reach the same standard of flying as a UK PPL who has done 30 hours post PPL.
So both newly minted PPLs have done 30 hrs hour building post PPL....so if you take the example of my mate who took 90+ hours to complete his PPL and say myself who took 62 when I passed I would now be 92 hours and he would be on 122 and we are both same standard according to your statement.
As EA says there is a 'down your nose' attitude at places to US trained pilots, which is probably why we stand up for ourselves. Funnily enough if you go to the US they moan about UK trainied pilots. As I have said on a previous thread, the famous one told over there is the 2 airline pilots who took a 172 into a meteor crater .... and then could not get it out again!!!
I do fly in both the US and UK, I also own an aircraft share in the UK and have undertaken post PPL instruction in the UK.
I actually believe that I got more experience by learning in California rather than at my local flying school which having spoken to others seem to go between the same points all the time. I had a great instructor in the US who didnt mind combining doing a PPL (and later the IR) with a bit of 'sight seeing' so hence I flew around quite a large area of the Western US between San Fran and the Mexican border and as far inland as Arizona. Again dealing with high density alitudes, ski resorts, wind sheer, forest fires and even an Apache coming along us during a trip past 'Longrifle' at Camp Pendleton!
At the point in time they return to the UK the US pilot lacks UK experience.
Yes I ahree with you, there are differences when you arrive back in the UK (I am sure just as you found when you went over to the US), but most of these are covered by a couple of hours familiarisation which can be combined with the usually compulsory club checkout. I have a 1 hour checkout on my return and was signed off straight away at White Waltham and Bournemouth. The instructors that instantly say "Oh well you are going to need another 15 hrs" are just after your money and you should be finding someone else to fly with.
Whirly makes a valid point, intensive courses are that and arent for everyone. Its no holiday and you may end up upsetting the other half if he/she is along with you expecting one!
Julian.
P.S. My own name as well
Well EA beat me to it!
I am glad to see that you have actually flown in the US (be it minimal!) and I take my hat off to your unpaid instruction
, something I used to do as well but not in the avitation industry.Your original comment was
My experience is that most American trained pilots take a considerable time converting to the UK. The time difference is probably about the same as if they had spent longer learning to fly and accepting the adverse weather.
then ...
I never mentioned thirty hours, but I do consider that a US trained pilot will need 30 hours extra to reach the same standard of flying as a UK PPL who has done 30 hours post PPL.
So both newly minted PPLs have done 30 hrs hour building post PPL....so if you take the example of my mate who took 90+ hours to complete his PPL and say myself who took 62 when I passed I would now be 92 hours and he would be on 122 and we are both same standard according to your statement.
As EA says there is a 'down your nose' attitude at places to US trained pilots, which is probably why we stand up for ourselves. Funnily enough if you go to the US they moan about UK trainied pilots. As I have said on a previous thread, the famous one told over there is the 2 airline pilots who took a 172 into a meteor crater .... and then could not get it out again!!!
I do fly in both the US and UK, I also own an aircraft share in the UK and have undertaken post PPL instruction in the UK.
I actually believe that I got more experience by learning in California rather than at my local flying school which having spoken to others seem to go between the same points all the time. I had a great instructor in the US who didnt mind combining doing a PPL (and later the IR) with a bit of 'sight seeing' so hence I flew around quite a large area of the Western US between San Fran and the Mexican border and as far inland as Arizona. Again dealing with high density alitudes, ski resorts, wind sheer, forest fires and even an Apache coming along us during a trip past 'Longrifle' at Camp Pendleton!
At the point in time they return to the UK the US pilot lacks UK experience.
Yes I ahree with you, there are differences when you arrive back in the UK (I am sure just as you found when you went over to the US), but most of these are covered by a couple of hours familiarisation which can be combined with the usually compulsory club checkout. I have a 1 hour checkout on my return and was signed off straight away at White Waltham and Bournemouth. The instructors that instantly say "Oh well you are going to need another 15 hrs" are just after your money and you should be finding someone else to fly with.
Whirly makes a valid point, intensive courses are that and arent for everyone. Its no holiday and you may end up upsetting the other half if he/she is along with you expecting one!
Julian.
P.S. My own name as well
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Last night I got to thinking what I have found different between flying in the USA and the UK. I have flown in several US States and it made me realise how it varies between each of them.
Before posting a list I thought I would ask for feedback on whether this is a good idea or not, I don't want to pour more gas on the USA/UK fire? Maybe this should be a new thread?
I'd be interested to see what other experiences are out there.
Skyhawk.
Before posting a list I thought I would ask for feedback on whether this is a good idea or not, I don't want to pour more gas on the USA/UK fire? Maybe this should be a new thread?
I'd be interested to see what other experiences are out there.
Skyhawk.
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Prohibited to mention...?
BRL
I dont often have as much time as I would like looking at PPRUNE so I was not aware that we were not allowed to mention a Florida based flight training school ***. Are there any more schools in this category or are they uniquely litigious and easily bruised?
Englishal
You have clearly had experience of some poorly motivated instructors in the UK based on what you say. If you had flown with clubs local to me after your return you would have been pointed at some club member and requested to accompany them on a few cross countries, perhaps cost sharing. Maybe land on a beach or two under supervision of an experienced PPL for example, something for which training in America probably did not prepare you. An interesting use of an aircraft often done up here. I am sorry you had a negative experience but we are not all like that, honest. You should however try to place such attitudes as you encountered in context. My narrow personal perspective again I know, but I have had to correct a 'few' misconceptions about what is safe/legal UK operations. Most UK instructors will have a store of such experiences to tell. The American, French, Australian, Canadian, Malaysian, German instructors etc I have had the pleasure of working with also had similer stories of Brits in their countries. These excellent non UK instructors all argue with equal passion however that if you want to fly in their countries you should train there.
There are drawbacks with learning to fly in America and anyone with knowledge of both systems would be failing in their duty not to point them out. It is neither helpful or supportive of your case in favour of training in America to jump down the throat of anyone who holds views you interpret as less enthusiastic than your own. Equally there are many advantages in favour of American training which you ommited completely. The most significant being price and weather. To summarise arguments against the value of training in America as "a load of Tosh" is less than adaquate and reflects very poorly on you. Do you really mean it is wise to pay in advance and not obtain the protection that comes from a credit card, as but one example? Consider the sad tales of people left without money or redress by Flying Schools that either didn't deliver the goods, went broke or that they just fell out with. Consider why certain school(s?) dont want their name mentioned - is it because of happy and contented customers such as you? By all means give your views of perceived prejudice, you are sometimes probably right in this opinion. Explain the benefits you believe you received from training in America. That is all good and proper. Do please be a little less intemperate when dealing with others views. However much you may make statements I do not agree with, and I dont know yet that I do disagree with you, I will however maintain your right to free speech even if you remain behind a protective pen name. I would never describe your or any one elses views as "Tosh".
Julian
"(be it minimal!)"
I only mentioned the twin training and flying I did there. I did not consider hours instructing relevant to the original question.
I dont support your argument on respective hours or the meaning of my words. Your failure to understand what I meant is my own fault in expressing my views poorly. I am guilty of trying to use an overly simplified analogy for a complex situation with many variables. Instructors often have to do that in order to be understood, full understanding comes with further experience. I hope one day to get something close to it.
SkyHawk N.
Excellent idea.
Have Fun all.
I dont often have as much time as I would like looking at PPRUNE so I was not aware that we were not allowed to mention a Florida based flight training school ***. Are there any more schools in this category or are they uniquely litigious and easily bruised?
Englishal
You have clearly had experience of some poorly motivated instructors in the UK based on what you say. If you had flown with clubs local to me after your return you would have been pointed at some club member and requested to accompany them on a few cross countries, perhaps cost sharing. Maybe land on a beach or two under supervision of an experienced PPL for example, something for which training in America probably did not prepare you. An interesting use of an aircraft often done up here. I am sorry you had a negative experience but we are not all like that, honest. You should however try to place such attitudes as you encountered in context. My narrow personal perspective again I know, but I have had to correct a 'few' misconceptions about what is safe/legal UK operations. Most UK instructors will have a store of such experiences to tell. The American, French, Australian, Canadian, Malaysian, German instructors etc I have had the pleasure of working with also had similer stories of Brits in their countries. These excellent non UK instructors all argue with equal passion however that if you want to fly in their countries you should train there.
There are drawbacks with learning to fly in America and anyone with knowledge of both systems would be failing in their duty not to point them out. It is neither helpful or supportive of your case in favour of training in America to jump down the throat of anyone who holds views you interpret as less enthusiastic than your own. Equally there are many advantages in favour of American training which you ommited completely. The most significant being price and weather. To summarise arguments against the value of training in America as "a load of Tosh" is less than adaquate and reflects very poorly on you. Do you really mean it is wise to pay in advance and not obtain the protection that comes from a credit card, as but one example? Consider the sad tales of people left without money or redress by Flying Schools that either didn't deliver the goods, went broke or that they just fell out with. Consider why certain school(s?) dont want their name mentioned - is it because of happy and contented customers such as you? By all means give your views of perceived prejudice, you are sometimes probably right in this opinion. Explain the benefits you believe you received from training in America. That is all good and proper. Do please be a little less intemperate when dealing with others views. However much you may make statements I do not agree with, and I dont know yet that I do disagree with you, I will however maintain your right to free speech even if you remain behind a protective pen name. I would never describe your or any one elses views as "Tosh".
Julian
"(be it minimal!)"
I only mentioned the twin training and flying I did there. I did not consider hours instructing relevant to the original question.
I dont support your argument on respective hours or the meaning of my words. Your failure to understand what I meant is my own fault in expressing my views poorly. I am guilty of trying to use an overly simplified analogy for a complex situation with many variables. Instructors often have to do that in order to be understood, full understanding comes with further experience. I hope one day to get something close to it.
SkyHawk N.
Excellent idea.
Have Fun all.
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A big thanks to all for posting reply's to this thread.
If possible, can anyone recommend any flight training schools out in Florida or any other part of the states.
My friend is a 43 year old single mum who has a degree in ???? something. Cant remember. She is a nurse specialising in physio for patients with life threatening injuries. She spends most of her time visiting patients at home whilst they are recovering after treatment.
She says that an intensive course is the one for her and wants to get it done ASAP. She intends leaving her 9 year old son with her mum in the UK when she is doing the flying in the states. I have told her to do all her exams, medical and RT course here before she goes.
Any advice, recommendation and contact details for schools in the US PMd to me would be gladly welcomed.
She may want to get her commercial licence one day but is just thinking about her PPL for the time being.
She has been for a couple of flights with me and want to buy a share in a 150 when she returns back to the UK.
She will then get lots of shared flying within our group so getting up to speed with the UK stuff should not be a problem.
I did my PPL at Welshpool in 4 and a half weeks in August 1999. That flying school has now moved on. A shame as is was a great set up and I had the best 4 weeks of my life.
I have printed this thread off and will post it to her tomorrow.
If anyone can also PM me as to what the O@@ thing is all about or lead me to a link as to why it cannot be mentioned, that would be also welcomed.
US school recommendations in a PM most welcome.
Thanks Rob
If possible, can anyone recommend any flight training schools out in Florida or any other part of the states.
My friend is a 43 year old single mum who has a degree in ???? something. Cant remember. She is a nurse specialising in physio for patients with life threatening injuries. She spends most of her time visiting patients at home whilst they are recovering after treatment.
She says that an intensive course is the one for her and wants to get it done ASAP. She intends leaving her 9 year old son with her mum in the UK when she is doing the flying in the states. I have told her to do all her exams, medical and RT course here before she goes.
Any advice, recommendation and contact details for schools in the US PMd to me would be gladly welcomed.
She may want to get her commercial licence one day but is just thinking about her PPL for the time being.
She has been for a couple of flights with me and want to buy a share in a 150 when she returns back to the UK.
She will then get lots of shared flying within our group so getting up to speed with the UK stuff should not be a problem.
I did my PPL at Welshpool in 4 and a half weeks in August 1999. That flying school has now moved on. A shame as is was a great set up and I had the best 4 weeks of my life.
I have printed this thread off and will post it to her tomorrow.
If anyone can also PM me as to what the O@@ thing is all about or lead me to a link as to why it cannot be mentioned, that would be also welcomed.
US school recommendations in a PM most welcome.
Thanks Rob
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Apology
English Al and Julian. My sincere apology for transposing Julian's remark about 'Tosh'. I was actualy aggrieved by englishal's "You don't half talk some rubbish. You clearly have no idea!"
I do not consider my advice rubbish, nor do most people consider 'I have no idea' I accept happily that my views may be different than yours - perhaps not on the value of training abroad but at least on the need to present both sides of a situation.
I do not consider my advice rubbish, nor do most people consider 'I have no idea' I accept happily that my views may be different than yours - perhaps not on the value of training abroad but at least on the need to present both sides of a situation.
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I am not about to join in the debate of US vs UK learning, but if she is going to Florida I would recommend starting early November, flights out will probably be cheaper and the Wx certainly much better than the summer months.
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Having had nearly eleven years to ponder the US v UK PPL training conundrum (I learnt at #!* in 95) I've arrived at the conclusion that it really depends on the individual concerned, aside from the usual benefits of the US route....ie low cost, better weather, I found it was good to get away from it all and immerse myself in an aviation environment for 3 weeks, to be free from the pressures of family and friends....and work, for example, if I had a bad lesson out there I was able to put things right straight away rather than having an interruption for a few weeks (which would be likely here with iffy weather) and having to fester on the 'problem' till the next lesson.......when you would have to play 'catch-up' again to get to the point you were on the last flight.
Additionally, you might find loved ones would question whether it was worth all the trouble and expense, and at a low point in a UK PPL course you could lose heart or be coerced off flying by well meaning friends
......well thats what might have happened to me, so I was glad of the 3 weeks isolation.
Other people will be different.
I'm pleased to say that I've enjoyed both my UK and US flying in equal measure.
One final point, common sense or more accurately....airmanship is vital in any aviation pursuit, and that in my humble opinion cannot be taught.
Like I say, its the attitude of an individual that matters, not where they learnt to fly.
Tim
Additionally, you might find loved ones would question whether it was worth all the trouble and expense, and at a low point in a UK PPL course you could lose heart or be coerced off flying by well meaning friends
......well thats what might have happened to me, so I was glad of the 3 weeks isolation.
Other people will be different.
I'm pleased to say that I've enjoyed both my UK and US flying in equal measure.
One final point, common sense or more accurately....airmanship is vital in any aviation pursuit, and that in my humble opinion cannot be taught.
Like I say, its the attitude of an individual that matters, not where they learnt to fly.
Tim
