Channel Islands and Special Branch question.
The Original Whirly
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Channel Islands and Special Branch question.
A simple question, but I haven't yet found anyone who knows the answer....
We all know that if you fly from the UK to the Channel Islands, you need to contact Special Branch. But I want to fly to Le Touquet and land there, then meander along the coast of France (avoiding the nuclear power stations, before anyone reminds me), then take the short crossing from there to the Channel Islands. So, does a British aircraft arriving in the Channel Islands from France, and returning by the same route, have to let Special Branch know?
I suppose I could call Special Branch and ask, but I figured asking on PPRune would be easier.
By the way, I may want a companion/co-pilot for this trip, for about 5 days, in an ancient C150, sometime in the summer - pm me if you might be interested
We all know that if you fly from the UK to the Channel Islands, you need to contact Special Branch. But I want to fly to Le Touquet and land there, then meander along the coast of France (avoiding the nuclear power stations, before anyone reminds me), then take the short crossing from there to the Channel Islands. So, does a British aircraft arriving in the Channel Islands from France, and returning by the same route, have to let Special Branch know?
I suppose I could call Special Branch and ask, but I figured asking on PPRune would be easier.
By the way, I may want a companion/co-pilot for this trip, for about 5 days, in an ancient C150, sometime in the summer - pm me if you might be interested
MGP
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Channel Islands
No, this is the crazy situation. If you do it your way you are not flying from the UK to the Channel Islands. At one time, before Biggin had Customs, but not Special Branch, it was common for pilots flying from Jersey to Biggin to do as you are doing in order to avoid the cost of landing at an approved UK airfield. Incidentally, a friend of mine who sails told me some time ago that this regulation does not apply to sailing from the UK to Jersey and return.
The Original Whirly
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Malcolm,
Thanks for that. Sounds like it'll be a lot easier going that way...as well as giving us less water to cross, which was the main reason for going that way originally.
Thanks for that. Sounds like it'll be a lot easier going that way...as well as giving us less water to cross, which was the main reason for going that way originally.
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Fuel in Guernsey still under 80p/litre. I fly from a special branch airport so no issue but if you go from France then you have no notification to consider.
Under 20 quid for landing and overnight parking for 3.5 tonne aircraft. I love Guernsey.
Duke of Normandie Hotel - centre of town for under 50/night inc breakfast. PM if you want a SEP instructor RHS, I am sure to be able to get the time off work!
Under 20 quid for landing and overnight parking for 3.5 tonne aircraft. I love Guernsey.
Duke of Normandie Hotel - centre of town for under 50/night inc breakfast. PM if you want a SEP instructor RHS, I am sure to be able to get the time off work!
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Our local SB consider that you do need to contact them if your intention is to go to the Channel Islands whether or not you make an intermediate landing in France. How they would find out, I have never been able the ascertain!
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You could actually call Special Branch before you leave. I reckon all that they will say is "Thank you for you call". Not wanting to be rotten to SB, but they are coppers looking for naughty people. And if you ain't one of them, they are not interested in you!
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No, you are under no legal obligation to get clearance from SB. So don't.
Those who say they are only after "bad guys", and would therefore appreciate a call, are being exceedingly generous to the nature of the average PLOD. He is a slave to procedure - so much so that some time ago I was told that if weather delayed my flight to Alderney, I would have to re-apply for clearance for the next day!
Save him the trouble of using any initiative - like saying "thank you", or worse, exceeding his authority by telling you to request clearance!
Those who say they are only after "bad guys", and would therefore appreciate a call, are being exceedingly generous to the nature of the average PLOD. He is a slave to procedure - so much so that some time ago I was told that if weather delayed my flight to Alderney, I would have to re-apply for clearance for the next day!
Save him the trouble of using any initiative - like saying "thank you", or worse, exceeding his authority by telling you to request clearance!
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I agree - No.
The special branch requirement of the Terrorism Act simply fills a gap caused by the 'common travel area'. That is travel between UK, CI, IOM and ROI is not subject to immigration controls or inspection, but travel between CI and France is subject to immigration control at both ends of the journey (in theory at least).
If you read the Terrorism Act, it doesn't mention the SB specifically, you are simply required to notify a police officer in the constabulary where you fly from.
I quite like the idea of stopping the village bobby and asking if its alright to fly to Alderney for lunch - not been brave enough to try it though.
The special branch requirement of the Terrorism Act simply fills a gap caused by the 'common travel area'. That is travel between UK, CI, IOM and ROI is not subject to immigration controls or inspection, but travel between CI and France is subject to immigration control at both ends of the journey (in theory at least).
If you read the Terrorism Act, it doesn't mention the SB specifically, you are simply required to notify a police officer in the constabulary where you fly from.
I quite like the idea of stopping the village bobby and asking if its alright to fly to Alderney for lunch - not been brave enough to try it though.
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The apparent anomaly is fairly logical. If you fly in the common travel area, you must inform customs and special branch, but immigration aren't interested. If you are inbound from the EU then customs and immigration are interested, but special branch aren't and the notice period is four hours. If outside the EU customs and immigration are interested and the notice period is 24 hours.
Because the rules are not well understood (even by those who are supposed to enforce them
) If you have an FBO do the GENDEC form they will usually tell everybody on the basis of the notice period appropriate to your last stop over prior to re-entering the UK.
Because the rules are not well understood (even by those who are supposed to enforce them
) If you have an FBO do the GENDEC form they will usually tell everybody on the basis of the notice period appropriate to your last stop over prior to re-entering the UK.
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"No, you are under no legal obligation to get clearance from SB."
That is certainly true but not quite the whole picture. You are NEVER required to get SB clearance, remember NEVER. What you are required to do is NOTIFY SB at least 2 hours before departure if travelling from essentially anywhere where there is no SB presence. We have a very good relationship with our SB and they are always helpful and once you are known they seem to take no interest except to observe the letter of the Terrorism Act.
That is certainly true but not quite the whole picture. You are NEVER required to get SB clearance, remember NEVER. What you are required to do is NOTIFY SB at least 2 hours before departure if travelling from essentially anywhere where there is no SB presence. We have a very good relationship with our SB and they are always helpful and once you are known they seem to take no interest except to observe the letter of the Terrorism Act.
The Original Whirly
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GK430,
Which forms? The forms from UK Special Branch? Despite the fact you came from France? I'm confused.
Also, if I did let SB know, it would be hard to give a date, if - as I planned - I was meandering along the French coast first...I'm talking about more than just one landing in France.
My feeling from all this is not to tell them, but it would be nice to know for certain.
Which forms? The forms from UK Special Branch? Despite the fact you came from France? I'm confused.
Also, if I did let SB know, it would be hard to give a date, if - as I planned - I was meandering along the French coast first...I'm talking about more than just one landing in France.
My feeling from all this is not to tell them, but it would be nice to know for certain.
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Whirls,
Why not just give them a call?
They are very nice people and I am sure that they will give you all of the information that you require.
Even if you notify them of your flexible plans at least you have notified them.
PM me if you want a contact number.
Take a note of who you speak to you - as others have mentioned, the rules are sometimes interpreted in different ways
Why not just give them a call?
They are very nice people and I am sure that they will give you all of the information that you require.
Even if you notify them of your flexible plans at least you have notified them.
PM me if you want a contact number.
Take a note of who you speak to you - as others have mentioned, the rules are sometimes interpreted in different ways
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Whirly,
Last summer I landed in Jersey, having spent the previous two weeks in France.
We did not have to fill out any UK forms for Jersey. On booking in, in Jersey, we had to fill out a form for the Jersey Authorities, which looked identical to a GAR form, except it had a Jersey Authorities logo on it, instead of the British one. I don't believe that they transmit it to the UK authorities. It's nothing to do with the UK; the only countries concerned are France and Jersey.
We did depart from Jersey to the UK after that, and of course that would be subject to the normal UK GAR forms being submitted.
I hope that helps.
Of course don't forget that you have to leave France via a customs airfield too.
dp
Last summer I landed in Jersey, having spent the previous two weeks in France.
We did not have to fill out any UK forms for Jersey. On booking in, in Jersey, we had to fill out a form for the Jersey Authorities, which looked identical to a GAR form, except it had a Jersey Authorities logo on it, instead of the British one. I don't believe that they transmit it to the UK authorities. It's nothing to do with the UK; the only countries concerned are France and Jersey.
We did depart from Jersey to the UK after that, and of course that would be subject to the normal UK GAR forms being submitted.
I hope that helps.
Of course don't forget that you have to leave France via a customs airfield too.
dp
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Whirly,
The requirements that you have to comply with are at GEN 1.2 in the AIP.
To explain the background - Jersey and the other Channel Island States are not part of the UK. They are also not part of the EU.
The Terrorism Act deals with flights between Great Britain (England Scotland and Wales), Isle of Man, Channel Islands, Northern Ireland and Ireland. If your flight is not between any of those places then it does not apply.
Since the Channel Islands are not part of the EU, then one must comply with the Customs and Immigration requirements for departures to NON-EU destinations and that includes a requirement when making a stopover in an EU country enroute.
It means that one can avoid having to comply with the Terrorism Act when going to Jersey by making a stopover in Cherbourg. However, that then requires Customs and Immigration because it is only a stopover at Cherbourg. In effect you are no better off.
In your case, your visit to France as described would not be considered as a stopover especially when you will no doubt be making more than one stop in France.
So my advice is;
1. Comply with the requirements for making a flight to another EU country from GB.
2. Comply with the French requirements for arriving from a non-Swengen State and again on final departure for going to a NON-EU country.
3. Comply with CI requirements in and out
4. If you return direct back to GB from the CI then comply with all the requirements - Terrorism Act, Immigration and Customs.
Again the reference is the AIP.
Regards,
DFC
The requirements that you have to comply with are at GEN 1.2 in the AIP.
To explain the background - Jersey and the other Channel Island States are not part of the UK. They are also not part of the EU.
The Terrorism Act deals with flights between Great Britain (England Scotland and Wales), Isle of Man, Channel Islands, Northern Ireland and Ireland. If your flight is not between any of those places then it does not apply.
Since the Channel Islands are not part of the EU, then one must comply with the Customs and Immigration requirements for departures to NON-EU destinations and that includes a requirement when making a stopover in an EU country enroute.
It means that one can avoid having to comply with the Terrorism Act when going to Jersey by making a stopover in Cherbourg. However, that then requires Customs and Immigration because it is only a stopover at Cherbourg. In effect you are no better off.
In your case, your visit to France as described would not be considered as a stopover especially when you will no doubt be making more than one stop in France.
So my advice is;
1. Comply with the requirements for making a flight to another EU country from GB.
2. Comply with the French requirements for arriving from a non-Swengen State and again on final departure for going to a NON-EU country.
3. Comply with CI requirements in and out
4. If you return direct back to GB from the CI then comply with all the requirements - Terrorism Act, Immigration and Customs.
Again the reference is the AIP.
Regards,
DFC
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The simplest thing is a laptop with Winfax and a GSM fax card, and fax the same stuff to all three numbers, for each flight.
If these people had the slightest amount of intelligence, there would be a single website into which one could enter the stuff.
If these people had the slightest amount of intelligence, there would be a single website into which one could enter the stuff.
