What would you do if your radio failed?

[wombat13]

Originally Posted by splang

Cos' thats what it says in the Thomas Thom flight manual! Probably so it is picked up at a problem?

S

I have never heard of this. Whilst I do not have the said book to hand I would suggest you discuss this with your FI or if you are feeling really brave your CFI.

As said before, ATC are not stupid people. 75 taken alive, 76 in a fix, 77 gone to heaven. Universal codes.

You turn up at the pearlly gates with a radio failure and they will not let you in.............

The Wombat

[dublinpilot]

77 gone to heaven

I prefer to think of it as going, rather than gone.....leaves a little hope to still postpone the trip

[Chilli Monster]

Originally Posted by splang

Cos' thats what it says in the Thomas Thom flight manual! Probably so it is picked up at a problem?

The 7600 display on radar also does this - hence no requirement to squawk 7700 first. The illustrious Mr Thom is, in this case, very very wrong.

Originally Posted by wombat13

As said before, ATC are not stupid people.

I wish someone would explain that to my ex-wife!

[splang]

Fair enough - for those who are interested it said this on page 243 on book one - the air pilot's manual.

S

[LowNSlow]

IO540 you don't always have to have a socket for the external aerial available. I use an Icom A-3 tucked into the back pocket of the passenger seat. This puts the aerial the same distance from the instrument panel as the external area and seems to work well.

Kolibear I have found that the background noise in the average light aircraft is too loud to make conversation practical. Going back to he original post, in the past I have landed outside the Control Zone and phoned for clearance which was duly granted to be available within a certain timeframe.

[ronnie3585]

Having the numbers of the tower in your phone is a great thing to fall back on. I know of two friends who have obtained landing clearence on their mobiles after coms and handheld failure.

[Papa Charlie]

Originally Posted by LowNSlow

IO540 you don't always have to have a socket for the external aerial available. I use an Icom A-3 tucked into the back pocket of the passenger seat. This puts the aerial the same distance from the instrument panel as the external area and seems to work well.
Kolibear I have found that the background noise in the average light aircraft is too loud to make conversation practical. Going back to he original post, in the past I have landed outside the Control Zone and phoned for clearance which was duly granted to be available within a certain timeframe.

Returning to Shoreham with radio failure in a PA28 a couple of years ago, the mobile phone solution worked a treat. ATC were able to give runway, wind direction and gave us clearance for a straight in approach rather than join a busy circuit. It was noisy but ATC and I could communicate which was the important thing.
Agree on concentrate first and foremost on flying - I was in RH seat at time so my friend could continue flying without further stress.

[wombat13]

erm

Originally Posted by dublinpilot

I prefer to think of it as going, rather than gone.....leaves a little hope to still postpone the trip

You know, I only "heard" it the once from my FI and never thought of it like that. I stand corrected!

Just looked at my 2003 edition Flying Training 1 and blow me down there it is, "you should squawk 7700 on your transponder for 1 Minute, then 7600 for 15; and repeat.
Utter tosh.

Much more interesting is further down where it says "For more about emergency radio calls and radio failure procedures, see vol 7 of The Air Pilots Manual - Radiotelephony. Again in my 2003 edition it says "to indicate radio failure by squawking 7600..............." No reference whatsoever to 7700.

As the Monster says, they have got it wrong in the case of Vol 1. You might want to drop them a note Splang.

Happy flying and welcome back to the fold. 10 years is too long away.

The Wombat

[splang]

Thanks Wombat - good to be back!

[ThePirateKing]

Isn't there something about flying in triangles? Or am I confused again?

TPK

[rotorblades]

just stick your head out of the window and shout very loudly
"london can your hear me?"

[dublinpilot]

"london can your hear me?"

Reply: "Noooooo!!!"

[bookworm]

Originally Posted by dublinpilot

I always check the radio failure procedures for where I am going before I set off. This may sound very boring, and it is. It is also more difficult than might first seem, because often the rt failure procedures for non IFR traffic aren't made very clear. I remember starting a discussion here 18 months ago, about what was a "suitable aerodrome", as this is where I was supposed to divert to in case of a radio failure outside controlled airspace.

So where are these "radio failure procedures" published? If not in the AIP (and I can't find any of substance there), why not? And if they're not there, am I not entitled to take the general advice in the AIP of simply "landing at the nearest suitable aerodrome, taking account of visual landing aids and keeping watch for instructions as may be issued by visual signals from the ground"?

[wombat13]

7700 for one minute then 7600 for fifteen

OK, having kicked this radio failure 7700 / 7600 issue to death and concluding it is utter tosh, I did one of the more dangerous things and got to thinking...................

Is there an argument for a student flying solo to demand a little more clearance from ATC in the event of radio failure??? Hence the reference to the practice in Volume One, The Air Pilots Manual - Flying Training.

Really what I am asking is what has posessed them to put it in there. I don't think that just because I have never heard of it (nor anyone else who has responded), it is totally without foundation.

Now I know, giving latitude is not my strong point, but it is when I look at the copy sitting on my desk with "CAA LASORS recommended" across the top, that I find myself wondering:

What has possessed them to put it in there?

How can it be that I missed it when I "read" the book a few years back?

Is Splang the only person who is reading these books all the way through?



The Wombat

[dublinpilot]

So where are these "radio failure procedures" published? If not in the AIP (and I can't find any of substance there), why not? And if they're not there, am I not entitled to take the general advice in the AIP of simply "landing at the nearest suitable aerodrome, taking account of visual landing aids and keeping watch for instructions as may be issued by visual signals from the ground"?

Yes Bookworm, that's pretty much what I mean.

I check the AIP entry for the airfield. If there is guidance there, then I print it off, and stick it on my kneeboard. There usually is something there when the airport is located within controlled airspace. If nothing, then follow the general enroute AIP stuff. If flying out of Ireland (where I'm used to), then I print off the general page from the AIP too, and stick that on my kneeboard.

I also think about what airfield nearby my destination would be a "suitable airfield" and how I would get there non-radio.

dp

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Originally Posted by bookworm

So where are these "radio failure procedures" published?

I discovered the procedures at one place by asking ATC whilst on a tower tour. "Yes, I know it says we're only open to radio traffic in the AIP, but if you're based here you can still come back, enter the ATZ and land, following standard radio failure procedures. Look, [hunts around for a bit behind the desk] I can even find the thingy for flashing a green light at you! - haven't used it for as far back as I can remember, mind."

[helicopter-redeye]

I've only had the one. Headset mike went US in flight.

Swap headset in use for headseat in adjacent seat, rinse and repeat.

7600 + C sqw

Join circuit overhead & land visually (easier on rotors, no tarmac reqd!!)

h-r

(NB try another frequency first, number one may be closed ....)

[Chilli Monster]

Originally Posted by wombat13

Is there an argument for a student flying solo to demand a little more clearance from ATC in the event of radio failure???
Hence the reference to the practice in Volume One, The Air Pilots Manual - Flying Training.
Really what I am asking is what has posessed them to put it in there. I don't think that just because I have never heard of it (nor anyone else who has responded), it is totally without foundation.

I've never come across either whilst flying or from an ATC point of view, and still maintain it's a) not necessary and; b) a pointless exercise which would, if anything, confuse the person on the ground who actually sees the squawk. Something to remember:

If the radio stops working - the aircraft isn't going to stop flying!

R/T failure is not an emergency - it's just an annoyance that has to be overcome. In the student scenario that student isn't going to be IFR/IMC. There should be nothing to preclude them from returning to their own airfield. If it's in Class 'D' then they're instructors should have briefed them on the based A/C non-R/T procedures (they do exist) before they let them out of the zone. If the airfield is in Class 'G', whether ATC or A/G, then likewise they should have been briefed beforehand - if they haven't they're not being taught properly - which is a bigger problem.

Losing a radio, in the majority of PPL circumstances, just means going back to basics.

[aluminium persuader]

cos 7700 flashes up "emerg"

but 7600 flashes up "rdo fail".

There's absolutely no point in messing around with the transponder. It won't get you noticed any faster. Just squawk 7600 & then concentrate on flying.

Happened to me once, but I lost all the electrics so not even squawking helped. Oh well!

[BroomstickPilot]

Flying Triangles

Originally Posted by ThePirateKing

Isn't there something about flying in triangles? Or am I confused again?
TPK

This is really a question for an elderly ATCO: any old ATCOs out there remember?
I'm not an ATCO, but to the best of my recollection, back in the 1950s this used to be a procedure for aircraft with radio failure while above cloud. I seem to remember that different meanings were ascribed to the direction in which the triangles were flown, but I can't remember what that was. Basically, the idea was that the radar controllers would spot the blip flying triangles and despatch another aircraft to intercept and escort the lost aircraft to safety.
That's all I can remember, anyway.
Best regards,
Broomstick.