Basic atc
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Basic atc
As the owner of a PPL gained in the us my atc skills are somewhat slack and I have a couple of Q's that im sure somebody could either answer or point me in the direction of a suitable website.
On contact with FIS controller, e.g. brize radar.. can he/she give me zone transit clearance or do i need to talk to a different cont.. e.g. brize zone?
With the various types of service available.. (info/a-g/radar) etc etc, whats the best way to determine the type of service at an A/D and how to address on first contact?
These may seem like daft questions but ive spent to many hours sightseeing and cloud chopping over last 12months and not enough constructive flying and with the cpl rapidly approaching its time to play propperly.
cheers DPT
On contact with FIS controller, e.g. brize radar.. can he/she give me zone transit clearance or do i need to talk to a different cont.. e.g. brize zone?
With the various types of service available.. (info/a-g/radar) etc etc, whats the best way to determine the type of service at an A/D and how to address on first contact?
These may seem like daft questions but ive spent to many hours sightseeing and cloud chopping over last 12months and not enough constructive flying and with the cpl rapidly approaching its time to play propperly.
cheers DPT
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Originally Posted by dontpressthat
With the various types of service available.. (info/a-g/radar) etc etc, whats the best way to determine the type of service at an A/D and how to address on first contact?
If the airfield doesn't appear in either of the above, it's either non-radio or air-ground.
If it's A/G, they'll be, for example, "North Weald Radio"
If it's FISO, they'll be, for example, "Duxford Information"
If it's full ATC, it varies. It may be Radar/Approach etc.
Generally, your first contact should be:
"(Station you're calling), this is G-BLAH, request (what you want)"
They'll then reply, asking what they need to know. Don't pass all your details on the first transmission!
Or, if you don't know, then "Duxford, good afternoon, G-BLAH."
But you won't find that in CAP 413, which is at
www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.PDF
and it'll tell you how to really do it.
The main thing with zone transits is DO NOT assume that you have one just because you're getting a FIS, RAS or whatever from the unit.
But you won't find that in CAP 413, which is at
www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.PDF
and it'll tell you how to really do it.
The main thing with zone transits is DO NOT assume that you have one just because you're getting a FIS, RAS or whatever from the unit.
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Cherrs aerbabe and jafo..
Very helpfull comments from you both.. I guess its just practice then. Its a bit daunting after the relaxed atmos in the states, but I try to use atc when x-ctry as much as poss these days.
DPT
Very helpfull comments from you both.. I guess its just practice then. Its a bit daunting after the relaxed atmos in the states, but I try to use atc when x-ctry as much as poss these days.
DPT
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Why don't you spend a few hours with the people working your local ATS? Try both the tower at your home field and those at the places you visit most often.
"With the various types of service available.. (info/a-g/radar) etc etc, whats the best way to determine the type of service at an A/D and how to address on first contact?"
Presumably you left the US with a RT Licence; The test there is no different to here, and those are essential things you need to know to pass the test!
Could I suggest you go to one of the few instructors offering RT Training, then you will have the opportunity to see what you should have covered already.
Presumably you left the US with a RT Licence; The test there is no different to here, and those are essential things you need to know to pass the test!
Could I suggest you go to one of the few instructors offering RT Training, then you will have the opportunity to see what you should have covered already.
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whopity
Granted, the test is the same as the uk but depending on where you've flown in the US the RT experience is limited. When I did my PPL most fields I visited were uncontrolled and very quiet.
There was no such thing as FIS and if daytona could actually be botherd to help all they would offer was a very limited 'flight following'
I obviously have an RT licence and have 130+ hrs in my book but as I said, most of that is just cloud chopping in the local area and very little x-country etc.
I only asked the question as I was looking for some advise before I go fumbling into an FIR unannounced or call the wrong station for the wrong service and waste their time and mine.
My use of RT is perfectly ok, its just nice and i would suggest, prudent to check things before you dive in head first.
I do however appreciate your comments and an instructor at my local will be my first port of call.
DPT
Granted, the test is the same as the uk but depending on where you've flown in the US the RT experience is limited. When I did my PPL most fields I visited were uncontrolled and very quiet.
There was no such thing as FIS and if daytona could actually be botherd to help all they would offer was a very limited 'flight following'
I obviously have an RT licence and have 130+ hrs in my book but as I said, most of that is just cloud chopping in the local area and very little x-country etc.
I only asked the question as I was looking for some advise before I go fumbling into an FIR unannounced or call the wrong station for the wrong service and waste their time and mine.
My use of RT is perfectly ok, its just nice and i would suggest, prudent to check things before you dive in head first.
I do however appreciate your comments and an instructor at my local will be my first port of call.
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Originally Posted by dontpressthat
whopity
Granted, the test is the same as the uk but depending on where you've flown in the US the RT experience is limited. There was no such thing as FIS and if daytona could actually be botherd to help all they would offer was a very limited 'flight following'
DPT
Granted, the test is the same as the uk but depending on where you've flown in the US the RT experience is limited. There was no such thing as FIS and if daytona could actually be botherd to help all they would offer was a very limited 'flight following'
DPT
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I wish i hadnt asked now!!!
My experience of flight training in the states was clearly very different to everybody else's then?
Yes Daytona are busy, yes they offer vector service and can indeed be very helpfull etc, BUT when I was there (feb/mar 01) 90% of the time when asking for 'flight following' I was asked to remain clear and continue with own nav.
The point I was trying to get accross was that the airspace and RT in that particular area of florida (nth of daytona) was a lot more slack than where I currently fly (south east uk) and anybody who believes a similarity can be drawn between London TMA and the wilderness of the florida outback is either grandly deluded or just looking for an argument.
My questions in the original posting were kindly answered by a couple of helpfull ppruners and I am gratefull for that. To those who seem to want to pick holes in my thread, complicate things or simply belittle an inexpierienced pilot, I hope nobody asks you for advice in the future.
I thank you!! end of!
My experience of flight training in the states was clearly very different to everybody else's then?
Yes Daytona are busy, yes they offer vector service and can indeed be very helpfull etc, BUT when I was there (feb/mar 01) 90% of the time when asking for 'flight following' I was asked to remain clear and continue with own nav.
The point I was trying to get accross was that the airspace and RT in that particular area of florida (nth of daytona) was a lot more slack than where I currently fly (south east uk) and anybody who believes a similarity can be drawn between London TMA and the wilderness of the florida outback is either grandly deluded or just looking for an argument.
My questions in the original posting were kindly answered by a couple of helpfull ppruners and I am gratefull for that. To those who seem to want to pick holes in my thread, complicate things or simply belittle an inexpierienced pilot, I hope nobody asks you for advice in the future.
I thank you!! end of!
Last edited by dontpressthat; 11th Feb 2006 at 15:58.
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blimey, spit your dummy out!, i can't see how anyones tried to belittle you, i am a very inexperienced pilot so wouldn't call others but you didn't mention in your original post that you went out to florida in mar 01, since then a lot of the airfields are controlled, new towers etc, so it's hardly "slack out there"!
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The dummy is out but toys still in pram...!! 
No offence intended mcgoo, Just got a bit narkt by a previous remark about my RT which got my back up a bit.
DPT
No offence intended mcgoo, Just got a bit narkt by a previous remark about my RT which got my back up a bit.
DPT
Don't blame you mate.
I'd have spit dummy, thrown teddy, pillow, blankets and bottle.
You asked a reasonable question and deserved reasonable answers.
I'd have spit dummy, thrown teddy, pillow, blankets and bottle.
You asked a reasonable question and deserved reasonable answers.
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HAHAHA....I like that jafo!!
Sounds like a full on hissy fit, Bit like the state I was in when studying atpl's, complete soft furnishing carnage some days!
DPT
Sounds like a full on hissy fit, Bit like the state I was in when studying atpl's, complete soft furnishing carnage some days!
DPT
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dontpressthat,
If you are going to meet the ATCOs in your area, how about inviting one of them up with you for a flight? You agree to pay for the flying - and they can buy the coffees or butties. Could be the best hour's info seeking you can get
Once you've flown a few hours over here, you'll be sorted - it will then be trying to get used to the US way, should you decide to go back there.
Incidentally, I only ever managed to get flight following from Daytona Beach on a handful of attempts, as they were always too busy
Best wishes
PD
If you are going to meet the ATCOs in your area, how about inviting one of them up with you for a flight? You agree to pay for the flying - and they can buy the coffees or butties. Could be the best hour's info seeking you can get
Once you've flown a few hours over here, you'll be sorted - it will then be trying to get used to the US way, should you decide to go back there.
Incidentally, I only ever managed to get flight following from Daytona Beach on a handful of attempts, as they were always too busy
Best wishes
PD
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I Like yr thinking PD, may well give that a bash... could be good learner and always nice to have somebody in the spare seat, also saves tuning the adf to talk sport and getting side tracked by the prem results. (as if i would)
Glad to hear somebody had the same experience with daytona... thought it was just me.
DPT
Glad to hear somebody had the same experience with daytona... thought it was just me.
DPT