90 bank turn (Merged)
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Re: 90 degree turn
Muck,
I think what you are asking is if it's possible to turn with 90 degrees angle of bank?
If that's the case you might consider asking the question in the Private Flying forums, since this is an aerobatic move and there are plenty of people in there who fly aerobatics and would be able to answer your question. As I understand it, though, the lift from the wings would be entirely horizontal, and therefore not counteract the weight at all. However, the fuselage of the aircraft will actually generate a small amount of lift - in some aircraft, enough to counteract the weight. Since up/down with reference to the ground now corresponds to left/right with reference to the pilot, it is the rudder which is used to control the angle of attack. I'm not an expert, though.
FFF
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I think what you are asking is if it's possible to turn with 90 degrees angle of bank?
If that's the case you might consider asking the question in the Private Flying forums, since this is an aerobatic move and there are plenty of people in there who fly aerobatics and would be able to answer your question. As I understand it, though, the lift from the wings would be entirely horizontal, and therefore not counteract the weight at all. However, the fuselage of the aircraft will actually generate a small amount of lift - in some aircraft, enough to counteract the weight. Since up/down with reference to the ground now corresponds to left/right with reference to the pilot, it is the rudder which is used to control the angle of attack. I'm not an expert, though.
FFF
---------------
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Re: 90 degree turn
Cheers.... Sorry I badly phrased the question..
I ment If you bank 90 degrees in a turn trying to keep constant alt and speed what will happen + where will forces act
I ment If you bank 90 degrees in a turn trying to keep constant alt and speed what will happen + where will forces act
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Re: 90 bank turn
Way, way down... there being no horizontal lift component to keep you at the same altitude. If you're thinking of how aerobatic aircraft do it, it's combination of fuselage lift, thrust and a lot of top rudder. Since only aerobatic aircraft are cleared for that kind of asymmetric tail loads, stay away from that flight regime - you'd probably be safer doing a barrel roll!
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Re: 90 bank turn
By trying to maintain constant altitude, you will be pulling mighty hard on the yoke/stick and will stall, with the natural (and fairly dramatic in that configuration) consequences of that.
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Re: 90 bank turn (Merged)
It should be possible with a sufficiently powerful aircraft, given that knife edge "level flight" is easily doable in, say an, Extra 300. Absolutely no chance in anything less.
There's one stunning video clip I've seen where Jurgis Kairys does a low pass, knife edge. The video is taken, 50ft or so above ground, from a grandstand at racetrack in Japan. He passes *below* the camera position.
Forward airspeed is very low in these scenarios, as the aircraft is partly 'helicoptering' (aka 'prop hanging'), rather than flying on the fuselage & rudder alone.
There's one stunning video clip I've seen where Jurgis Kairys does a low pass, knife edge. The video is taken, 50ft or so above ground, from a grandstand at racetrack in Japan. He passes *below* the camera position.
Forward airspeed is very low in these scenarios, as the aircraft is partly 'helicoptering' (aka 'prop hanging'), rather than flying on the fuselage & rudder alone.
Re: 90 bank turn (Merged)
When I flew the Buccaneer, we used to fly 'head-down' toss-bombing manoeuvres dual in the Hunter T8b with a safety pilot although they would be used for real in the Bucc. If I recall correctly, we flew straight and level at around 1000 ft and 450 KIAS, then pulled up at about 3 g until reaching some specific height. The rolled to 120 deg bank, pulled round and rolled out on reciprocal heading at 500 ft above entry height.
Quite disorientating, but simple enough once you got the hang of them.
Quite disorientating, but simple enough once you got the hang of them.
Re: 90 degree turn
Originally Posted by FlyingForFun
Muck,
As I understand it, though, the lift from the wings would be entirely horizontal, and therefore not counteract the weight at all. However, the fuselage of the aircraft will actually generate a small amount of lift - in some aircraft, enough to counteract the weight. Since up/down with reference to the ground now corresponds to left/right with reference to the pilot, it is the rudder which is used to control the angle of attack.---------------
As I understand it, though, the lift from the wings would be entirely horizontal, and therefore not counteract the weight at all. However, the fuselage of the aircraft will actually generate a small amount of lift - in some aircraft, enough to counteract the weight. Since up/down with reference to the ground now corresponds to left/right with reference to the pilot, it is the rudder which is used to control the angle of attack.---------------
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Re: 90 bank turn (Merged)
Originally Posted by Keygrip
BEagle....and the relevance of that to this thread...is...?
The Pitts can maintain a knife-edge straight & level, never tried to
actually *turn* in a knife-edge.
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Re: 90 bank turn (Merged)
There was link on PPRuNe yonks ago to a video clip of a large mil aircraft which obtained almost that angle of bank - with such catostrophic (and fatal) results.
The aircraft (N American?) possibly a B52 was at a display when the accident happened - a graphic illustration which clearly showed what happens when all lift is lost.
The aircraft (N American?) possibly a B52 was at a display when the accident happened - a graphic illustration which clearly showed what happens when all lift is lost.
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Re: 90 bank turn (Merged)
Originally Posted by eharding
Who cares - I still want a go in a Buccaneer!
The Pitts can maintain a knife-edge straight & level, never tried to
actually *turn* in a knife-edge.
The Pitts can maintain a knife-edge straight & level, never tried to
actually *turn* in a knife-edge.
[edit: changed aileron to elevator)
Last edited by paulo; 14th Jan 2006 at 11:20.