Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
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Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
Hi all,
I'm a fairly low-hours PPL (~140hrs, including a lapsed IMC) but I fancy setting myself a bit more of a challenge, and with this in mind am considering visiting my sister in Sunderland by air, from Manston.
From a rough look at the Southern and Northern half-mil charts, it seems that the nearest airfield would be Peterlee, but I can't find any information about it online, other than that they have a parachute club. I'm assuming that if it's big enough for even a small jump-ship, then it's probably big enough for a Warrior - can anyone fill in some details? Peterlee is marked on the half-mil, but it seems to also be known as Shotton airfield - is this correct, or is Shotton a different place?
Manston to Peterlee is approx 250nm, which would make it, in round numbers, a three-hour trip in a Warrior. Would people recommend planning this as a single leg, or is stopping half-way more sensible? The longest solo flights I've done thus far were Manston - Bembridge and back, just over an hour each way. I think I'd still be awake and alert enough to land the thing after three hours... I guess it's a more general question - would it be considered poor airmanship for someone with my experience to be planning a three-hour leg?
Any tips on routing through / around all the MATZs etc would be appreciated...
I guess I'm mainly just looking for some reassurance (or otherwise) that this is a sensible ambition!
Thanks all,
Crispy.
I'm a fairly low-hours PPL (~140hrs, including a lapsed IMC) but I fancy setting myself a bit more of a challenge, and with this in mind am considering visiting my sister in Sunderland by air, from Manston.
From a rough look at the Southern and Northern half-mil charts, it seems that the nearest airfield would be Peterlee, but I can't find any information about it online, other than that they have a parachute club. I'm assuming that if it's big enough for even a small jump-ship, then it's probably big enough for a Warrior - can anyone fill in some details? Peterlee is marked on the half-mil, but it seems to also be known as Shotton airfield - is this correct, or is Shotton a different place?
Manston to Peterlee is approx 250nm, which would make it, in round numbers, a three-hour trip in a Warrior. Would people recommend planning this as a single leg, or is stopping half-way more sensible? The longest solo flights I've done thus far were Manston - Bembridge and back, just over an hour each way. I think I'd still be awake and alert enough to land the thing after three hours... I guess it's a more general question - would it be considered poor airmanship for someone with my experience to be planning a three-hour leg?
Any tips on routing through / around all the MATZs etc would be appreciated...
I guess I'm mainly just looking for some reassurance (or otherwise) that this is a sensible ambition!
Thanks all,
Crispy.
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
Hello!
Peterlee is an interesting place – parallel runways, one grass the other a very narrow sliver of blacktop and people who want to jump out of perfectly serviceable aircraft!! We flew-in in a C152 with no real problems other than visually identifying the airfield, which is located adjacent to an industrial estate. I would suggest you give them a call prior to setting off for a brief.
One comment I would make however, is the on surface. Whilst the black-stuff is good enough, the grass strip, at least when I was there, is not that great having been battered over the years by jump planes. The “taxi way” up to the club house is not that great either. There is always Durham Tees Valley if you feel Peterlee is too risky.
I see no problem with a 3hr nav ex, other than the need to go to the toilet or stretch your legs. If you feel it’s too far, then why not plan to stop off somewhere en-route – quick toilet break and stretch the legs!
If it’s a week day trip you’re planning, you can guarantee some level of contact with the Fast Jet fraternity. Best bet would be to talk to the various Mil aerodromes and let them know you’re there and what your intentions are.
Cheers!
Peterlee is an interesting place – parallel runways, one grass the other a very narrow sliver of blacktop and people who want to jump out of perfectly serviceable aircraft!! We flew-in in a C152 with no real problems other than visually identifying the airfield, which is located adjacent to an industrial estate. I would suggest you give them a call prior to setting off for a brief.
One comment I would make however, is the on surface. Whilst the black-stuff is good enough, the grass strip, at least when I was there, is not that great having been battered over the years by jump planes. The “taxi way” up to the club house is not that great either. There is always Durham Tees Valley if you feel Peterlee is too risky.
I see no problem with a 3hr nav ex, other than the need to go to the toilet or stretch your legs. If you feel it’s too far, then why not plan to stop off somewhere en-route – quick toilet break and stretch the legs!
If it’s a week day trip you’re planning, you can guarantee some level of contact with the Fast Jet fraternity. Best bet would be to talk to the various Mil aerodromes and let them know you’re there and what your intentions are.
Cheers!
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
I dont beleive the leg length really matters. In good flying conditions 3 hours is a relative breeze! What does matter on longer trips is of course the diversion options en route if the weather is less good than forecast and less good than you are comfortable with and of course if you just feel you need a break. Personally I always plan a couple by just making sure the airports concerned will accept me and doubtless you will have all the other information to hand.
Your first decision will be whether to route over the sea. I would personally avoid doing so, and plan the Sherness VRP, then Southend, somewhere just east of Cambridge (which provides the first good diversion, rest stop), then on past Coningsby and Waddington (you will get a transit through their MATZ without any problems), shortly after which Humberside or Sandtoft provide good diversions, and finally clearance passed Linton will also not be problematical.
The route is straightforward with plenty of good visual features if you are not using a GPS, excellent LARS cover and no high ground of concern. As suggested there are no dangers areas to avoid.
There is unlikely to be a problem routing through any of the MATZs so plan to do so.
The scenery is OK. My last trip that way was up to Dundee from the south coast, with stops at Humberside and Southend going, direct coming back. Most enjoyable.
Good luck. Let me know if I can be of further help.
Your first decision will be whether to route over the sea. I would personally avoid doing so, and plan the Sherness VRP, then Southend, somewhere just east of Cambridge (which provides the first good diversion, rest stop), then on past Coningsby and Waddington (you will get a transit through their MATZ without any problems), shortly after which Humberside or Sandtoft provide good diversions, and finally clearance passed Linton will also not be problematical.
The route is straightforward with plenty of good visual features if you are not using a GPS, excellent LARS cover and no high ground of concern. As suggested there are no dangers areas to avoid.
There is unlikely to be a problem routing through any of the MATZs so plan to do so.
The scenery is OK. My last trip that way was up to Dundee from the south coast, with stops at Humberside and Southend going, direct coming back. Most enjoyable.
Good luck. Let me know if I can be of further help.
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
If you plan to route up the coast line then be aware of the Fylingdales zone which just reaches the north end of Scarborough.
North bound you will probably use Waddington then transfer over to Humberside. Humberside will keep an eye on you and I expect they would warn if you are heading too close to Fylingdales - they do this everytime I go sightseeing over towards Scarborough. Excellent service.
Sandtoft would be a good stopping point for refreshments / leg stretches / fuel uplift.
North bound you will probably use Waddington then transfer over to Humberside. Humberside will keep an eye on you and I expect they would warn if you are heading too close to Fylingdales - they do this everytime I go sightseeing over towards Scarborough. Excellent service.
Sandtoft would be a good stopping point for refreshments / leg stretches / fuel uplift.
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
I flew Newcastle to Manston and back a few Saturdays ago. The return leg was CLN, FNL, OTR, NEW and took around 3 hours. Great ATC radar service all the way and was handed over by every unit (Manston, Southend, Lakenheath, Waddington, Humberside, Teesside, Newcastle).
A most enjoyable trip that I would recommend.
BS
A most enjoyable trip that I would recommend.
BS
Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
Sunderland used to have a very good airport of its own (EGNU) but as usual, the, local council decided more money could be made if it was an industrial park. Displaced an excellent museum too- I believe several aircraft had to be scrapped.
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
Sunderland!! Disown your sister and advertise for some new family in Newcastle!!
Seriously though, transport links are pretty good from Newcastle Airport to that place, but it will cost you in landing fees and parking. It is an option if you prefer big runways.......
Seriously though, transport links are pretty good from Newcastle Airport to that place, but it will cost you in landing fees and parking. It is an option if you prefer big runways.......
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
I suspect that Nissan's offer for the site of Sunderland airport was too good a deal to turn down for the local council 
There are good links to Sunderland now from Newcastle airport but the landing/handling/parking fees may prove to be too much, give Samson Aviation a call http://www.samsonaviationuk.com/ and they will give you an idea of the costs.
PD
There are good links to Sunderland now from Newcastle airport but the landing/handling/parking fees may prove to be too much, give Samson Aviation a call http://www.samsonaviationuk.com/ and they will give you an idea of the costs.
PD
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
The airfield is adjacent to the village of Shotton Colliery - satellite image from Google here.
Runway viewed from the west
Airfield para club web site
Have you considered Fishburn? A great little airfield about 6 miles further from Sunderland (18miles versus 12miles) just north of Sedgefield village on the A177 close to J61 on the A1(M).
Fishburn location here - runway visible top left. Runway viewed from the north-west. Teeside (Durham Tees Valley) ATC are friendly.
Runway viewed from the west
Airfield para club web site
Have you considered Fishburn? A great little airfield about 6 miles further from Sunderland (18miles versus 12miles) just north of Sedgefield village on the A177 close to J61 on the A1(M).
Fishburn location here - runway visible top left. Runway viewed from the north-west. Teeside (Durham Tees Valley) ATC are friendly.
Last edited by clearfinalsno1; 14th Jan 2006 at 20:19.
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
Fill the thing up and (subject WX), just go. I recon two hours (I can do BPK - NEW in under four legal hours in a car). Nav - very simple this one, keep the sea on your right. Warnings in addition to previous: Damn Yanks at Lakenheath, Doona Nook, The Wash AIAA for traffic etc. and the Biggy: grass strips in winter. I'd suggest phoning for the price of Landing Fee, Parking and Handling at NCL. At Darlington Municipal Aerodrome (EGNV) the fees will be less, but you are out in the Boonies. For the grass strips: They are cheap and you are still in the boonies, but the departure may be more exciting than you want!
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
Take a good look at the flight manual and make sure that you know the correct RPM for cruise at altitude and how to lean the engine for best performance.
Climb above FL50 when clear of Class A airspace and enjoy a "no stress" flight with good radar cover, good range from the nav aids and very little other traffic because most of private GA never ventures above 2400 ft ALT.
Climb above FL50 when clear of Class A airspace and enjoy a "no stress" flight with good radar cover, good range from the nav aids and very little other traffic because most of private GA never ventures above 2400 ft ALT.
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
Peterlee has the tarmac strip specifically to alleviate the drainage problems of this time of year. Check with the locals for lengths, procedures etc. I know the "mown" area is at least 720m x 60m, 30/12 and 30 slopes down appx 1.4%.
Peterlee is closer to EGNU as was, than Fishburn or EGNV. NT is closer again but if you're going to use public transport - have you seen the Man who fell to Earth ? The "metro" is modelled on Tommy's trains. Take a cab from Peterlee. The management are interested in encouraging light aircraft.
Go to Woolsington or Middleton St George if you want radar and a light aircraft boheca experience. Plus Newcastle is 10 -15 mins further on which is a waste of block time.
Peterlee is closer to EGNU as was, than Fishburn or EGNV. NT is closer again but if you're going to use public transport - have you seen the Man who fell to Earth ? The "metro" is modelled on Tommy's trains. Take a cab from Peterlee. The management are interested in encouraging light aircraft.
Go to Woolsington or Middleton St George if you want radar and a light aircraft boheca experience. Plus Newcastle is 10 -15 mins further on which is a waste of block time.
Last edited by Bert Stiles; 15th Jan 2006 at 10:18.
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
Thanks for all the advice, chaps. I certainly feel encouraged to give it a go. I flew into Rochester last week which is all grass - it was fairly greasy but no problem. My main concern would be dealing with all the airspace and different controllers etc on the way, rather than the navigation. Would there be any value in filing a flight plan?
I shall go and check out the suggested routes on the maps...
I shall go and check out the suggested routes on the maps...
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
Originally Posted by CBLong
Would there be any value in filing a flight plan?
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
Peterlee/Shotton Colliery is easy enough with a Warrior. Tarmac strip is very narrow though, less than a wingspan, but this does help in concentrating the mind for a good landing. Taxiway is fine as long as you're careful. Easy enough to find as it is virtually next to the A19 dual carriageway and has 2 large wind generators about 1.5 miles away to the SW.
Only thing I would say is make sure you PPR as they are not easy to raise by radio. It is simply a bloke wandering around with a handset who may or may not hear you and answer your calls. Friendly enough bunch there though.
Newcastle simply isn't worth the rip off handling fees (you have no choice about it either) and Teesside is too far away to be a realistic alternative. It's a good trip, and there is no shortage of diversions up the eastern side of the country if you need to cut it short for any reason. And forget all this VOR to VOR at flight level nosebleed stuff, what a waste of a perfectly enjoyable VFR trip.
Only thing I would say is make sure you PPR as they are not easy to raise by radio. It is simply a bloke wandering around with a handset who may or may not hear you and answer your calls. Friendly enough bunch there though.
Newcastle simply isn't worth the rip off handling fees (you have no choice about it either) and Teesside is too far away to be a realistic alternative. It's a good trip, and there is no shortage of diversions up the eastern side of the country if you need to cut it short for any reason. And forget all this VOR to VOR at flight level nosebleed stuff, what a waste of a perfectly enjoyable VFR trip.
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
Did I say VOR to VOR ?...I don't think so ! I just said get above 95% of the private GA traffic.
It makes no sence to me that almost all the VFR traffic in the UK flys between the ground and 2400 ft when the most fuel efficent level for a non-turbocharged aircraft is between 6000 & 8000 ft.
Take into account the fuel to TOC and the reduction of airspeed in the climb vs the extra TAS at altitude and and the reduced fuel flow you will find the FL60 break even is on a trip of about 100NM.
If increasing the fuel flow, time taken, risk of mid-air collision, ATC workload and reducing the radio navigation options, radar cover, distance that you can see and glide are the price of a "perfectly enjoyable VFR trip" then I must have missed something ?!.
I would far rather be at FL60 in the smooth air at that level I can see sometimes for 50 miles with the big picture laid out before me and very little other traffic rather that being at 2000 ft in the industrial haze trying not to hit several aircraft who are not at all sure of there exact location.
It makes no sence to me that almost all the VFR traffic in the UK flys between the ground and 2400 ft when the most fuel efficent level for a non-turbocharged aircraft is between 6000 & 8000 ft.
Take into account the fuel to TOC and the reduction of airspeed in the climb vs the extra TAS at altitude and and the reduced fuel flow you will find the FL60 break even is on a trip of about 100NM.
If increasing the fuel flow, time taken, risk of mid-air collision, ATC workload and reducing the radio navigation options, radar cover, distance that you can see and glide are the price of a "perfectly enjoyable VFR trip" then I must have missed something ?!.
I would far rather be at FL60 in the smooth air at that level I can see sometimes for 50 miles with the big picture laid out before me and very little other traffic rather that being at 2000 ft in the industrial haze trying not to hit several aircraft who are not at all sure of there exact location.
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Re: Advice on Manston to Sunderland trip
A and C - yes I agree.
There are of course times when the view is more enjoyable from lower down but if your goal is to get from A to B with as little stress as possible and giving yourself as many options as possible just in case the engine should quit high is good. You also know you are above any circuit traffic at the small fields, so you are just left with avoiding any danger areas (and again many will have upper limits beneath you) and ensuring you dont conflict with any parachute activity.
CBlong - I think I understand your concern which I shared when I started longer trips. In fact the radio work is straightforward on the trip you have planned, with no controlled airspace in your way. Take a look at one of the guides and make sure you have all the frequencies for the en route LARS units and their hours of op (many are closed at the weekend). You will get a LARS service all the way if you want it - and since it is available I would. Dont worry about asking them who they would suggest you work next, they are passing on aircraft all day long. I am not suggesting it, but if you didnt take a single frequency with you other than Southend LARS, starting with Southend you would get passed along the whole of your route.
There are of course times when the view is more enjoyable from lower down but if your goal is to get from A to B with as little stress as possible and giving yourself as many options as possible just in case the engine should quit high is good. You also know you are above any circuit traffic at the small fields, so you are just left with avoiding any danger areas (and again many will have upper limits beneath you) and ensuring you dont conflict with any parachute activity.
CBlong - I think I understand your concern which I shared when I started longer trips. In fact the radio work is straightforward on the trip you have planned, with no controlled airspace in your way. Take a look at one of the guides and make sure you have all the frequencies for the en route LARS units and their hours of op (many are closed at the weekend). You will get a LARS service all the way if you want it - and since it is available I would. Dont worry about asking them who they would suggest you work next, they are passing on aircraft all day long. I am not suggesting it, but if you didnt take a single frequency with you other than Southend LARS, starting with Southend you would get passed along the whole of your route.
Peterlee
I operate an aircraft from Peterlee. If there's anything you need to know about the place, ask and I'd be only too happy to help.
I tend to land on the grass (its smooth and well looked after these days), and depart from the tarmac.
Grass is 720 metres and very wide, Tarmac is slightly less in length and 7 metres wide. Both runways are 12/30. R/H circuits off 30 and L/H from 12. It is easy to operate from, and fuel is available.
There's usually someone to talk to you on the radio: 129.9 though at the moment its largely DIY.
The taxiway has recently also been tarmaced, so you've no worries there either.
Newcastle is anti-light aviation and Teesside is miles from where you want to be. Peterlee is 10 mins down the A19 from Sunderland.
They're a friendly lot and at weekends there's good grub available from the canteen.
(There's planning permission granted for 10 hangars and I reckon that it could be the North-east's No.1 light aircraft venue in a few years)
I tend to land on the grass (its smooth and well looked after these days), and depart from the tarmac.
Grass is 720 metres and very wide, Tarmac is slightly less in length and 7 metres wide. Both runways are 12/30. R/H circuits off 30 and L/H from 12. It is easy to operate from, and fuel is available.
There's usually someone to talk to you on the radio: 129.9 though at the moment its largely DIY.
The taxiway has recently also been tarmaced, so you've no worries there either.
Newcastle is anti-light aviation and Teesside is miles from where you want to be. Peterlee is 10 mins down the A19 from Sunderland.
They're a friendly lot and at weekends there's good grub available from the canteen.
(There's planning permission granted for 10 hangars and I reckon that it could be the North-east's No.1 light aircraft venue in a few years)